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hoiditthroughthegrapevine last won the day on January 29

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About hoiditthroughthegrapevine

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    Adonalsium & the Holograms

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  1. I've said this before, I think like Pagerunner that this is a parable about how Hoid, like Prometheus, stole the power of Adonalsium to try and bring this power to human kind. I think this is the reason for his appellation "Bearer of the first gem". I actually asked Brandon at the Portland Oathbringer release signing if Hoid was the girl who looked up. He seemed shocked when I asked that first bit, but I then added some other over-reaching questions that muddied the WoB waters to the point where he could safely give the non-committal answer that "that's not right, but thinking along the right lines".
  2. Sad–"e"as Sad as+"ses" This is obviously an English language prank, but it still works with a modification to the Sadeas glyphpair (spoilered below because some might find it in poor taste, though others might find it Hi-lar-ious).
  3. Totally cool idea @OmegaDarkMatter, but like it's been pointed out it doesn't quite fit the facts. The idea of Era 4 Space Marines invading Roshar from the Origin of Storms is freaking awesome, definitely worthy of some fan art or some fan fiction.
  4. I think you should add a "Follow Taln around like a little puppy" option too. That's what I would do if I was in-world, not just for his amazing body guard skills while in a partially vegetative state (viz when he saved Amaram from Iyatl's blow dart), but also for the fact that he is the moral center of the Cosmere. I mean, he finds out he was abandoned to suffer in damnation alone for 1000 years and he cries from happiness that this act of betrayal gave Humanity 1000 years rebuild. Solid guy. If I was a Skybreaker, my 3rd ideal would be to follow Taln like a puppy.
  5. I get what you are saying here, that WoB does seem to imply that practitioners of Tenacity brand magic would be more likely to be able to remain as cognitive shadows, but as a specific case extendable to a possible general rule, the WoB also states that after the vessel dies the magic will change drastically, and further that one of these changes affects a practitioner of said magic's transition to the Great Beyond (for Tenacity (Ambition, wink, wink) this results in magic users more easily becoming cognitive shadows). Notice there is no volitional component in the WoB formulation, and I don't think shades on Threnody would choose to become mindless bloodthirsty killers, so it seems to me that there is some compulsion effect here. I'm pretty sure the following addresses your problems with this theory @Fatikis and @Weltall, but let me know if I'm wrong. In the case of Honor, the magic system is all about binding. The Nahel bond was patterned on the Bond between an Oathpact bound Herald and their Honor Blade. All radiant spren are mixtures of Honor and Cultivation's investiture, so it makes sense at least to me that after the death of Honor, one of the after effects of the Nahel Bond would be an increased likelihood that the practitioner of Honor's magic might be likewise bound to the oathpact and subject to becoming a cognitive shadow trapped in Braize. This is total speculation to be sure, but it's far more satisfying to me as an explanation for the Recreance than the in-world Taravangian leaked explanation. (Mrall: What, Taravangian leaked? Adrotagia: Well, that Depends. Mrall: Thanks for putting those on him today Adrotagia, he's a total idiot.) I think that the Cognitive Shadows of the Singers fought against the Humans, Heralds, and Knights Radiant's. And that overtime and in successive Desolations, broken KRs cognitive shadows started fighting on team Odium because they had been broken by protracted torture in Braize. Do we know exactly when the spren bond would be broken? We know from Secret History that after death, the soul and cognitive aspect of a person are separated from their physical body, and if the dead individual had been exposed to Investiture in life that they persist for longer in the Cognitive Realm before the transition to the Great Beyond. Seems like even if this theory isn't right, the Knights Radiant's buddy, his spren, would be there to see them off. And from the Shadesmar parts of Oathbringer (with Kal and Syl and Shallan and Pattern) we know that a KR can't summon a spren as a blade in the cognitive realm, but that still have access to surgebinding. Unless you have some WoBs about this, I think the verdicts still out on what happens to a KR's spren bond when they die. Also, even if the bond is severed, the KRs' spirit web would still have been altered by the bond. Like the strings of Black tying Kelsier's soul to Ruin and the Strings of white tying it soul to Preservation, these Connections persist after death. And another point, maybe this is the underlying mechanic of why Cognitive shadows would remain, what would these Connections be connected to if the Vessel was dead and the shard was splintered? Maybe they start connecting to the Shard's existant Investiture, and that's what causes the increased persistance, or maybe in the case of Honor, these are the ties that bind the KR's soul and Cognitive Aspect to the oathpact. As for your second point, I got the impression that the Royals willingly gave themselves to Odium in order to defeat the humans and that it's not the case that all singers that die can become royals. I think that it probably did require some of investment of his Investiture to create the first batch of Fuzed, and that's the real reason he keeps recycling them even though they are Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.
  6. Thanks for the nice words and the WoB Extesian, but this seems like a Wobfuscation kind of WoB. It's in the Vorin religion that they are preparing for the afterlife in life, that the highest calling is to be a soldier and that they will be fighting for the Tranquiline halls. This implies a cultural belief in sticking around a bit after you die. Being the "man known as Taln" kind of guy he is, Brandon could have just said "If a Radiant dies, they don't go to Braize" using the full sense of existence for a lifeform that is more than a cognitive shadow, i.e. their Soul, Cognitive Aspect, and Physical Aspect. This could just be misdirection through a technicality (They don't go to Braize, first their Cognitive shadow has to be trapped, then their cognitive shadow goes to braize. They (the entity comprising their Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual aspect) never go to Braize, ergo this is completely different than how it works for Heralds because they are just Cognitive shadows.
  7. Hahah, have an upvote for your discriminating tastes good sir.
  8. Please be advised that the High Prince of Information has noted that morale for the forces of House Sadeas is at an all time low and has made it a top priority to apprehend the prankster who is removing "e"s and adding "ses"s to the signage for High House Sadeas.
  9. Proof: It's the only explanation that fits the known facts. They were originally given Honor Guitars, and they were the first supergroup in the Cosmere to have every member play guitar. Also, they amassed a large following of groupies that played air guitars at their shows until the local spren decided they wanted to be awesome guitars too (just like the honor guitars). Periods when the Heralds weren't touring were referred to by their devoted fans as "The Desolations". The Recreance was the ultimate disillusionment when the Knights Radiant groupies realized that their favorite band, The Heralds, were going to be breaking up for good. Bummer. Theory: Hoid created himself by laughing at his own witticism about how you can't create something from nothing, so technically existence is impossible.
  10. So in combing through @Extesian's awesome collection of WOBs (link included below the WOB), I found one that I hadn't seen before that I think has some pretty serious potential ramifications. I for one, am very underwhelmed by the official explanation for the Recreance. Here is the official explanation, as reenacted in Bill and Ted's Recreant Adventure: KR Bill: Dude, look in the mirror bro, there's the true voidbringer. (KR Ted performs the patented Keanu Reeve's "whoa" head shake) KR Ted: I know, we're like human bombs. Guess it's time to start killin' our spren. I've speculated about this before, but given the additional fact that a recently deceased Vessel makes it easier for practitioner's of that Vessel's magic to become Cognitive Shadows, leads me to more firmly believe that there is a different and more compelling reason for the Recreance. Namely that the Nahel Bond allowed Odium to keep the KRs from transitioning to the Great Beyond, and more to the point, allowed him to torture their souls on Braize until they cracked and became his willing servants (and if they don't crack, then he gets to torture them in perpetuity, which if you're the shard of Odious Hatred that's a win win situation). Here are some general considerations (sources for some are in referenced spoiler tags below): We know that the afterlife on Roshar is weird, and that Ancient Singer Cognitive Shadows can come back as the Fuzed. We know that the Nahel Bond was patterned on the Honorblades. How much of the function of the Honorblade was copied? Was the linkage to the Oathpact, i.e. a torturous trip to Braize after death, included in the package deal? The Fuzed don't seem to be using Voidbinding, instead they seem to be using hacked surgebinding fueled by voidlight. The Fuzed seem largely ineffectual, and seem to be the advanced guard of the Desolation. The only real heavy hitters to come out for this battle on team Odium were the Thunderclasts. Puuli, who I would nominate as the Shard of Schadenfreude, in his interlude talks of the ones that will come with light in their pocket to destroy, and refers to them as "sailors lost on an infinite sea".* In Shadesmar, before the battle of Thaylenah Fields, some mysterious spren that aren't gold or red (so neither voidspren or corrupted spren, but described rather as dark) are massed before the oathgate and are waiting to bond with the disillusioned yet soon to be Thrilled troops of House Sadeas. I think this is significant.** So here is the speculative chain, fully assembled. Humans were starting to bond spren in imitation of the Nahel Bond before the KRs were established. Honor was splintering in slow motion (possibly even since the inception of the Oathpact). The Singer's played Let's make a deal with Odium, and the Royals were created (cognitive shadows of the Ancient Singers). Just like the spren got bored of hanging around the Singers, Odium too tired of them (not very passionate those Singers) and began to harvest KR souls as Tanavast's slow death advanced in terminality, causing their increasing formation as Cognitive Shadows. KRs at some point before the Recreance figure out that the Nahel bond allows Odium to trap their soul in Braize and torture them until they break (like the Heralds). The KRs realize that by continuing to fight they are opening themselves up to eternal damnation and unwittingly strengthening Odium's forces, so they decide to voluntarily kill their spren and sever their Nahel bonds. The Cataclysmic event, foreshadowed in the Puuli interlude, is coming, where the broken KRs will come from the Origin of Storms and unleash biblical devastation on the land. Possibly Thunderclasts are really broken KR Stonewards (the essence for their order is Rock and Stone), and the ability of Thunderclasts to form their body out of stone is the only true application of Voidbinding that we have seen on screen. If this is the case, we can expect 9 more orders of Eldritch monster level bad-asses to form from their respective Order's Essences. I would hate to see a broken Voidbinding Bondsmith (made out of Meat/Flesh) or a broken voidbinding Lightweaver (made out of Blood, ehh, gross). This theory also has the benefit of having humans be the original and the current voidbringers, which I think is pretty slick, and the additional benefit of being a satisfying explanation for the cause of the Recreance. Interested to hear what you all think about this. 5. *Full quote of Puuli's interlude: 6. **Text from the Battle of Thaylenah Field about the "dark spren" (really relevant bits highlighted):
  11. Oh my gosh, those puppies are so adorable! Here's one that totally fits how they look: Szeth, Cowed by none.
  12. This is kind of like Jumbles, only more fun. How about these ones: Szeth, Cool Shin Lover (if he is of the amorous persuasion and finds shins appealing... ) Szeth, Cute Lil Killer (oh look at those big eyes, looks like a child, wait put down the glowing knife kid. Hey bald kid, stop, stop). Even though you can't use this, you should probably knit this on a blanket for his doggy bed. "Szeth, Bone Shaman", cuz that's just adorable. The suspense is killing me, let us know if you find a name that works.
  13. @Mistspren Don't be buggin' yo, The Dysian is yours you can have Arclo. I'll be the guy that shows crime pays, @Ashspren sign me up as Mraize.
  14. Awesome job @Zath! Your raps were the only times I've enjoyed reading eastern street slang. I'd like to reserve Arclo, thanks for setting this up @Ashspren.
  15. Exactly! The space bubble could also be a diving helmet. Would be very awesome to see an accomplished Windrunner (Kaladin) use the surges of adhesion and gravitation under water to explore an underground stronghold containing powerful magic items (dawnshards) that could shift the balance in the war. Hopefully this is coming up. Hydrodynamic are very similar to aerodynamics, if pressure can be simultaneously increased behind the Windrunner and decreased in front of the windrunner, a system of incredibly rapid propulsion through water should be easy to manage. Also if pressure can be controlled across specific surfaces (which is plausible because Kaladin was able to paint a stripe of adhesion with his foot during Chasm spear training), then precise control of direction through the fluid medium should be easy to manage as well. Add in the ability to lash gravity in arbitrary directions, and you add in even more possibility for control and finesse. Essentially every windrunner could be Aquaman (but they would have to use Scadrial tech medallions to talk to the fish). Hopefully the caverns under Akinah are lit by bioluminescent life, or maybe there are strata of giant gem hearts that will glow with infused stormlight. Really hope Akinah gets explored in book 4.