specialNEDstark

Huge blunder on my part. I've been in a discussion in another thread debating the possibility of a group that's the polar opposite of Radiants. I've taken to calling the hypothetical group anti-radiants. The last post I made was meant for that discussion, and somehow my wires got crossed and I posted it here by mistake. I agree, Adolin has shown no signs of jealousy. I felt after the final sample chapter that these anti-radiants don't exist, but the Unmades attempt to forcibly bond Shallan opened up an element we had discussed at length, which is would an evil spren only bond an evil person, or a good person turned evil by the bond. We still don't have an answer but we know for sure that an evil spren of the highest power may attempt to bond someone we know is good, and that it's possible for that person to resist unwanted bonding. This brings up so many new questions about what type of people will the evil spren attempt to bond; just Radiants or anyone close by? Then we ask was Shallan able to resist because she's a Radiant, because she's a light weaver, because anyone can, or is it something innate within Shallan herself? Could it even be that Shallan isn't as good as we, or even herself, thinks? Finally it begs the question of how many evil spren are capable of this? Just the Unmade, or all evil spren? Circling back around to the issue of Adolin. I only meant that with everyone around him being Radiant, could it be Brandon left him unbonded to later have him bonded by an evil Spren. With all the questions left unanswered Adolin might not have to be evil in the slightest for that to happen, or maybe in the future resentment builds up inside him from watching everyone around him, everyone close to him, becoming more important while he becomes bitter, angry, and hurt because he doesn't understand what's wrong with him that keeps him from being one of them. This is pure speculation of course. I love Adolin, but just because he harbors none of those emotions now does not mean he couldn't one day. It would be understandable, and better men have succumb to emotions for worse reasons than that. The return of Janah, yet another person close to him that's now A Radiant, could nudge him in the wrong direction. The possibility also remains he never feels that way, but not being a Radiant, he can't fight off the bonding of an evil spren, and he falls to darkness through no fault of his own. Food for thought is all. Sorry again for posting in the wrong thread. Hope you can see now that I was musing in relation to an entirely different discussion. No matter what, I do not believe Adolin will become a Radiant, and him being the only person in his world that isn't one has to have some significance to the story, and must affect him dramatically at some point in our story.

I'm still relatively new to the Cosmere, finished reading about 80% of the novels but haven't done the multiple rereads needed to take in every little detail, yet, and I was wondering where your knowledge of the Shin came from? Did I miss it in WoK/WoR, or is there ancillary material I'm unaware of? This is the first time I've seen references that I didn't have the slightest clue as to what you're talking about. I want to know the Cosmere the way I know Asoiaf. Took about 20 rereads of the main series and the multiple short stories to get to the point where I know everything there is to know, and I won't be happy until I can say the same thing about the Cosmere.

Gotta say after the last sample chapters, which we all agree were fantastic, that many of the ideas I threw out as speculation kinda look to be true. Namely that evil spren could forcibly bond someone, and that someone didn't necessarily have to be evil for the spren to try forcing the bond on them. Also supports my theory that the number of evil spren is considerably less than their "good" cousins, but are considerably stronger than they are. We don't have total proof of the latter idea, though it seems much more likely to be true, but the former theory is all but verified. The only remaining question is if Shallan's ability to resist the attempted bond means everyone is capable of the same feat? If not, do all Radiants have the ability to fight it off, or is it something specific to Shallan? My guess would be that all Radiants can resist mainly due to the fact they're already bonded, but obviously we can't know for sure. It'll be interesting to find out how others take to the attempted bonding. I've got a very bad feeling that Adolin will end up bonded to an evil spren. Not because he wants to be evil, rather because everyone around him is a Radiant and he'll feel like something is wrong with him for not being one of them. Maybe jealously overwhelms him, but my guess would be either he's tricked by the spren, or believes he can control it the spren, using it to gain abilities without allowing the evil to take over. He'll rationalize it, convince himself he has no other choice, and he'll be wrong. You do have to feel for him. With just about every person close to him, save Navani, being a Radiant, I'm shocked no signs of jealously have surfaced yet, but I'd bet before the end of this book we'll at least see some chinks in his armor begin to surface. Might even see a complete meltdown from Adolin as Shardbearers are overshadowed by Radiants, no longer the top guns in Roshar. I know lots of people believe Adolin will become Radiant eventually, but him going down the wrong path attempting to be equal to those close to him seems way more likely to happen. Murdering Sadeas may even make Adolin a desirable match from the viewpoint of evil spren. Maybe the murder makes it impossible for Adolin to resist since he's already embraced the "dark side" if you will. Any thoughts? Man I can't wait to read the rest. The sample chapters have been great, but the most recent ones cranked the dial up to 11!

Oh, I also wanted to say that while these forums are much less populated than ASOIAF forums, I've found the fans here to be exponentially more intelligent, insightful, friendly, and knowledgeable than the song forums. It's appreciated.

I'll always prefer quality to quantity, but unfortunately my writing, no matter what the medium, naturally gravitates towards "being wordy". Used to worry about grrm not being around to finish it himself, but at this point I'm worried that I won't be around either lol

Aha I see. I gotta admit that while I'm not new to the Cosmere, or Roshar itself, but only recently began trying to educate myself on the nuisances needed to be a true uber fan. Spent almost a decade turning over every tiny detail of Westeros, and with the delays of book 6, and the tv show passing the books ect ect I reached my limit and knew it was time to move on. I mean 7 years? Really? Plus there's no reason to believe it won't be 7 more. It's become disrespectful to a very fervent and loyal community. Brandon handles the pressures of a complex universe even larger than ASOIAF, and always gives us something new to chew over, proving a massive series can be done well within less than half the time. Sorry to rant, just frustrated, but lucky to discover the Cosmere, and soon enough I'll know enough that my friends will ban me from discussing the books all day every day lol

Love your screen name. Gonna name my first child Achilles Flanders just so everytime it's spoken I can get on my high horse about how stupid they are because it's pronounced A-Sheel in Belgium, and only a moron would get it wrong. Sorry I couldn't resist the bad inside joke. So the conventional wisdom that Hoid swapped the blades before scurrying across the Shattered Plains waving it in the air yelling whoop whoopa whoop whoop whoop like Dr Zoidberg is officially debunked?. Is that relatively new information? First I've heard it mentioned, but that in itself doesn't mean a thing. Yet another mystery to solve. Great catch whoever discovered that tidbit.

Lol of course you're right! I'll never truly stop theorizing, debating, ect ect, I live for this stuff lol Plus I'm an old school Song of Ice and Fire fan, and if you're not into incessantly theorizing over the tiniest amounts of minutia, you should stick to Stephen King.

You bring up an interesting point. I didn't see it at first but you're right, why is the answer to this one question generating so much attention with all the other insights we've gleaned from OB so far. The identity isn't important at all. The one thing we can be certain of is the Prologue was written at the end of the story, or close to it. The author speaks in a way a historian studying past events might. Time, for me at least, to put this question on the shelf for now and pay more attention to the dozens of other new mysteries.

For awhile i kept seeing Renarin everywhere but I'm sure you're right if you're seeing other names brought up more often. Hard to keep up to date sometimes. I also hadn't read the newest chapters yet, and after reading them I'm more confused than ever. The first two quotes from the most recent update made me think Navani the likely author, but then the third quote doesn't seem like Navani at all. For now I give up. No one person makes any sense to me. Maybe it is the Sunmaker. Only character that we can't rule out due to the wording of the quotes, but only because we don't know him well enough to say it sounds like him or not. We'll know by the 15th at least. I'm seriously considering taking the day off work and try to read it in a day. If only I was still in college with a roommate selling Adderall lol

I think the majority of readers knew it was Jasnah after only a few chapters, and after a few more, they knew they were wrong. I have to admit that's how it went for me. Seems like popular opinion is now split close to evenly between Renarian, Navani, and Shallan in that order, with Dhalinar a distant 4th. I'll save the arguments for the proper thread, but I gotta say I believe the reasons I don't think it's any of them, are just strong as the reasons it isn't Jasnah. Problem is that I don't have the slightest idea of who else it could be. Not even a crackpot tin foil theory. Someone in the community will figure it out, and when they do I think we'll all be surprised.

I think we're both thinking the same thing more or less. I agree we'll see bonding involving Voidspren. Although I think it'll be the Voidspren bonding a person, not a person bonding a Voidspren. I think the difference is much more than an issue of semantics. So far it's been the Spren that chose the person not the reverse. The person isn't forced into the bond, but it's the Spren that wields all the power, at least until the words have been spoken, and the bond has begun. I wonder if that will hold true with Voidspren. Could some or all of them be strong enough to force a bond on an unwilling person? Again I believe the dichotomy between the good and the evil at play may resemble the Jedi/Sith dynamic where the good dwarf the evil in sheer numbers, but the evil forces are much stronger individually which balances the scale. I believe the Voidspren will be considerably stronger than those we've met so far. The question is whether or not their greater power includes the ability to force a bond on an unwilling person. Curious to see these Voidspren in action. Any thoughts?

I prob shouldn't have said a 'group' of evil radiants. I agree that it's not likely such an organization exists, but I do expect to see at least one person bonded with a malicious Spren in a similar fashion as Radiants, gaining abilities through that bond just as Radiants gain their abilities from their bond. Could turn out that a person bonded with such a Spren becomes much more powerful than Radiants in terms of sheer ability. Much like how Jedi outnumber Sith by a huge margin but as individuals one Sith is generally far stronger one Jedi.

In all likelihood Jasnah called off the hit because the center of the Kingdom is no longer located in Kholin lands. Navani would never have let her off the leash if there was anything that would pose a threat to their families sovereignty that could be accomplished so far from the true Kingdom. It's not like the journey would take months if the need to return quickly was needed. With spies literally everywhere, and at every rung of the social ladder, nothing clandestine could happen without the information reaching the King at warp speed. Maybe Jasnah used this time to give her a chance to prove herself with no risk if she bombed as Queen. Knowing Jasnah I think the real answet why she called off the hit was she knew the excess the Queen would flaunt would likely remove her head from her royal shoulders, and any plan involving the Queens family staging a coup, if that's even possible not knowing her lineage, could never succeed bc she'd be so hated by the average citizen even the most Kholin hating subjects would never stand beside her. It's alot to be thought out ahead of time, but thats Jasnah's speciality. Perfect understanding of the situation way in advance meant Jasnah risked nothing by waiting rather than killing the Queen herself.

No I never really took it serious. Mainly wanted to hear fresh ideas on who it could be. Seems popular opinion is Renarian but I don't think it fits him or any of the most popular guesses. It's not Sadeas obviously, but that's got me thinking if maybe there's an opposite to the Radiants we've yet to meet. Seems there are evil Spren and if they exist do they bond to people like Sadeas. They'd be exactly like Radiants in terms of ability and the process required to form a bond. The only difference would be in what they'd do with their abilities. What's more is Radiants seem to be changed from the bond, becoming more like the Spren that chose them. So it's possible that a person being evil before the bond isn't a requirement. A nasty enough Spren could push a good person into becoming evil. Not to mention the possibility that Odium could work his will through a person bonded with an evil Spren. All speculation of course, but if I'm right about Spren that are evil existing then it would be weird if none of them bond humans. That line of thinking leads me to wonder if the hypothetical evil radiants already exist, and are hiding in plain sight. There's so many secret organizations in the story so far at least one of them could be comprised of dozens of anti-radiants already bonded and trained, just biding there time, waiting to be unleashed. If i had to make a guess about who one could be my money would be on Sadeas widow. She's been overlooked inside and outside of the story,and she was always the more dangerous of the two, much more dangerous than her late husband. When she is next mentioned we find her chatting with Mraize.The guy I'd have picked out as most likely evil radiant, except that he's likely a world hopper. Dont see him being on the same team with Hoid which almost guarantees he's evil. Why would he be talking to the widow of a despised man in a society that considers women to be useless. Makes more sense if she's teamed up with an evil Spren just itching to give her new blade a workout. If I'm totally wrong about everything I still believe strongly that at some point we'll see someone bonded to an anti-spren. Open to naming suggestions btw. Anti, evil, dark side, sith, ect They all get the point across but we can do better, and I want to settle on a moniker now. Otherwise when I'm proven to be right no one else can lay claim to my idea. Odium Spren, Black/Dark Radiants maybe? I'm very open to suggestions!