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      Oathbringer Spoiler Policy   11/13/2017

      Oathbringer is out! Let's make our policy on spoilers clear! 1. You must preface topics with Oathbringer spoilers with the prefix [OB] in the front 2. You are only allowed to post spoilers and spoiler topics in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board, Cosmere Theories, and some select work-related forums. 3. For posts in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board you do not need to use spoiler tags inside a topic marked [OB]. For Cosmere Theories, you also do not need to put spoiler tags inside your topic if the topic has [OB] in the title. However, for Cosmere Theories, if you are adding Oathbringer stuff to an old theory without the [OB] tag, those must go in spoiler tags and you must make it obvious outside the spoiler tag that the spoiler is regarding Oathbringer content. 4. For select things that do require talking about OB spoilers, in Events, Coppermind, and Arcanum forums, those are allowed but keep OB spoilers in spoiler tags 5. Avoid and minimize spoilers in topic titles--even though those two boards will not appear in the Recent Topics ticker, topic titles still appear in Recent Activity and the forum home.  6. You aren't allowed to post Oathbringer spoilers in places other than listed, even with spoiler tags.  It will be nine months and then the Oathbringer board will be re-merged with the Stormlight board and you will not need to tag these spoilers. If you'd like to move something in the Stormlight Archive board to the Oathbringer board, to update it with new Oathbringer information, Report the post and we will happily move it to the Oathbringer spoiler board. Part-by-part Reactions Though the Oathbringer Spoiler Board will be very spoilery, very fast (maybe don't come there until you've read the book, as people do have copies that bookstores sold early), you'll have these five topics for reactions if you want to nerd out: Part 1 Reactions
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      Full Book Reactions For parts 1-4, they will not include the interludes immediately following it. On Discord All Oathbringer spoilers on Discord will be exclusively in the #oathbringer_spoilers channel for the nine month spoiler period and nowhere else.


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468 King's Tester

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  1. Yeah, all of our darkeyed Radiants (there's more than just Kaladin) are level three or less (the only ones above that are Shallan and possibly Jasnah), but (i) it seems as though it is often hard to progress beyond three (e.g. that library note about the windrunner not wanted to say his fourth oath), so our gene pool to reproduce lighteyes seems like it would be not the largest and (ii) in any given Radiant population, there would be a mixture of levels, and I imagine a mixture of relationships (level 2 with level 3, level 3 with level 5, etc.), and if not all Radiants bred true for lighteyes, I'd imagine we'd have far more heterochromatic individuals. If Hoid is saying Radiants led to lighteyes (which I don't believe we know for certain), I imagine all Radiants would pass along the lighteyed gene, and possibly even that the lighteyed Radiant gene would dominate any non-Radiant dark-eyed gene. Otherwise I don't know why we'd have such a large and consistent (i.e. non-heterochromatic) lighteyed population.
  2. So, in Wit's epilogue in WoK, he notes there is a good reason for the ligheyed/darkeyed dichotomy. This suggests to me that this is because the Knight Radiants were the ancestors of lighteyes, and as Knights Radiant were the upper class in Alethela, their decedents remained the upper class post-Recreance. (I can't find a specific WoB to support this, so if this premise is wrong, let me know.) It appears that eye color usually breeds true - two darkeyes have darkeyed children, two lighteyes have lighteyed children, a darkeye and a lighteye have heterochromatic children. (The latter doesn't appear to occur 100% of the time (see the end of this WoB: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/148-torcom-the-way-of-kings-re-read-interview/#e2782 - except below), but seems to be the most common outcome.) We also know that not all Knights Radiant were lighteyed and a Knight Radiant only maintains his/her light eye color when holding a Sprenblade and for a couple hours afterward. So, what color eyes would these darkeyed Knights Radiant have if they had a child with a lighteyed mate - lighteyed or heterochromatic? Do the actual genes change so that your Knight Radiant passes on eye color as though he/she is lighteyed? That would seem to be what Hoid is suggesting, but that seems a little odd as Kaladin's default state is darkeyed. Would it matter if the child was conceived when said Knight Radiant was in lighteyed or darkeyed form? There may be something definitive on this, but I couldn't find it, so if anyone has any information that would be greatly appreciated!
  3. Hmmmm, maybe I can even get up the courage to do a Case for Kadolin post... (caveating that I understand it's not going to happen in the book so I don't get yelled at for that! But still why I love it and what in-book "evidence" we have...) I'm getting more and more into Laral. I agree she seems to have developed into quite a strong young woman (and I do not see the fact she was kind of petty and starstuck by a fancy young lighteyed man as a teenager as a crippling personal fault; that's what happen when you're a teenager.) I think one definite possibility is that when the books pick back up in SA4, all of Hearthstone is already at Urithiru (and since it's all of them, Lirin would come too.) I wouldn't be surprised if what Kaladin and B4 did for much of the one-year break was rescue the people in the pockets of resistance in Alethkar (noted as Kaladin files to Skar and Drehy in the end) including Hearthstone. As readers, we don't need to see this and the Hearthstone arrival at Urithiru because we already saw the reunion in OB, but it would raise all sorts of interesting interpersonal dynamics to have Kaladin's family, Roshone and Laral at Urithiru. There was definitely some "chemistry" still between Kaladin and Laral; he's all "I will protect you", and she's all "storm off" and then all "like you know the king!... oh wait you do, I'll just be silent and a little in awe now...." They were both interested in each other as children. Laral was an adventurous girl, scrambling over rocks and exploring with Kaladin and Tien, and she clearly has a "I can take care of myself" attitude - all of which fits well with Kaladin IMO. I'm sure she's not able to stop thinking about him right now... I mean you're married to an old man in the middle of nowhere and your childhood crush (who you spurned at one point) comes back with a shardblade and flying?!? C'mon! So, yes, current wishcasting is Hearthstone in Urithiru, more Laral/Kaladin interactions, and don't forget Lirin was good friends with her father and Hesina always approved of the match, so there'd be plenty of external support of this match. #teamlaraladin
  4. If Kal doesn’t end up with She Who May Not Be Named, then Laraladin is my top pick, primarily because Syl was a big fan. I also find ending up with your childhood crush to be cute both in fiction and in real life, though @Rainier your thoughts are noted. Castration over Laraladin! @Greywatch #kadolinforever
  5. I think he just means Truespren who can Nahel bond and make a Radiant (this was originally supposed to be a non-spoiler annotation for beginning of WoK.) Btw, as far as "standing up", we have seen two personas do this: Veil on Honor's Path (when Veil "stood solidly on two feet" as observed by Adolin when seeing Kaladin with the windspren) and again when Kaladin lands post-TC (when Veil "pulled herself to her feet") and Radiant after TC (when Radiant is the one "stumbling to her feet" as the one "Jasnah could feel"). Both those personas choose Kaladin before "Shallan" "stuffed them into the back part of her brain." I'm getting a little worried Shallan's reintegration is going to be a little too tied to Kaladin...
  6. So, breaking this down - see bolded bits below. Wit makes Shallan create two illusions of her “whole” self. Both have the terrible memories and such. One is a mess, collapsed on the ground, unable to bear this. The other illusion is setting her jaw, accepting the pain, forgiving herself and standing up. These are both representations of what Shallan could be if she has to deal with her pain. Wit is showing her she can be the girl who is forgives herself and stands up, but both of those figures at that point are illusions. Shallan thinks she needs her personas in order to not be the girl collapsed on the ground; Wit says no, you are the girl standing up, you just have to accept the pain and allow yourself to be that person. Note how she got into position for her “moment” with Adolin (“Shallan, Radiant, and Veil just settled down on the wall walk, back to the stone.”) which draws similarities to how her sitting self is in the Wit scene (“backed up against the wall of the room”). Anyway, to be brief, Wit doesn’t select the “Shallan” persona as the one standing up, as the alive Shallan is creating two illusions, and one of those illusions is the one referenced to as standing up.
  7. I don't think Odium is the driving force behind Vorinism altogether, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was involved in the Heirocracy, especially given the claims of future sight. They were proven false, but by the Sunmaker who himself is suspect as a brutal conqueror under the influence of the Thrill. (See quote from WoK below.) The Heirocracy priests were also positioned directly opposite the Almighty (Honor) and the Heralds, so they were opposed to our current known "good shard". I suspect Vorinism to be challenged in a more holistic way at some point (emminating from the little conflicts we see brewing with Jasnah and Dalinar who are now even more powerful), which should shed more light on the Heirocracy. Any element of Vorinism influenced by Odium would severely undermine our current Vorin coalition. It seems primed to be a good source of conflict.
  8. I also find it interesting Brandon seems to consider her feelings for them equivalent. I think it's reasonable for Shallan to call herself in "love" with Adolin (dating for four months and seem quite bonded - I think a lot of people consider themselves in love at that point in a relationship just from a typical "when you say I love you" standpoint) whereas Kaladin and her don't seem to have had the time needed to be in "love". She shouldn't be in an equal place with her feelings for them, truthfully, so yeah let's call this WoB decidedly pro-Shalladin
  9. LOL join the club. (Slow holiday-workdays leave me a little worried about how much I'm on this forum ) But I don't get that at all from the Reddit post... So he's saying he wanted to get across "Shallan" is in love with Adolin and Veil is in love with Kaladin. Unless I see something that says Veil is not part of whole-Shallan (WoB that Shallan is one in the spiritual realm seems to suggest the opposite), I don't see how this can be interpreted any way other than he was trying to convey that part of Shallan was in love with Kaladin. (A part which she stuffed down in making this decision, when we are beaten over the head with the principle that Shallan stuffing down her feelings is Very Bad.) So I read this as he wanted to get across that "Shallan" and Adolin are working in a relationship and Veil and Kaladin are also working in a relationship. Again, unless we totally disregard Veil, it seems he wanted to get across that part of whole-Shallan works in a relationship with Kaladin. He's definitely not saying Shallan doesn't like Adolin; a part of Shallan definitely does! But I can't read this as dismissing the idea that part of Shallan likes (well he says love) Kaladin. ETA: Beat me to it @ailvara! Also, in re-reading this, I'm now slightly worried that given how Very Bad avoiding truths is for Shallan and we see this visible "stuffing in back of brain" of Shallan's feelings for Kaladin, that this will be her fifth truth. Please no, just please no. We already have Shallan relying too much on a man for one big decision, so I don't think I can take it again. ETA2: Since I'm over-analyzing too much, I now read this below as kind of interesting... I think if he felt it was done, he would have said something like "I hope the majority of fans are happy with how the characters reached this resolution, even though I know there is always some disappointment when there are multiple love interests" instead of basically alluding to the fact he expects people to be upset with it?
  10. Omg, you are going all in Why not cognitive realm too?
  11. This is the scene I think you're referring to: I can't really see much here besides Syl continuing to push Kaladin towards Shallan? Admittedly, I'm not into inter-species, so I'm not stretching here to try and find something romantic in the scene. I'm not even into human/listener even though we've been told there was interbreeding. I see the elves in LOTR as more of a different race of human (human with pointy ears), but I'm not well-acquainted with elf anatomy so could be missing something! And I'm not trying to be controversial (or dismiss anyone else's feelings on the matter), but I'd personally find it hard for me to really get into a ship which doesn't include physical intimacy.
  12. I somehow already ran out of upvotes today () but I wish I could give you one. I could write an essay (and actually at one point outlined one) about how WoR has the cutest Kadolin set-up. (Also part of said essay is that I could have, prior to OB, read Adolin as gay (though not out) given his inability to move romantic relationships forward and his hesitancy to have intimate contact with Shallan. I know that's all explained away in-world, but still.) Yeah, more about how we won't see more uniformity in the fandom (also per @Greywatch's point of how female characters are received in general), but I do agree with your analysis of reintegration being the only logical path forward for Shallan to accept her fourth truth and actually progress. I'm wish fulfilling the idea that she could accept her fourth truth and say her fifth truth at the same time to be our first full Radiant...
  13. I totally get where you're coming from, though my disgusted reaction is at a slightly different point; I hate the fact she selected the dominant persona based on Adolin holding her hand and staring into her eyes and choosing it for her. My reaction to this is almost visceral, in fact. I'm less upset that Adolin is the anchor for her control after the fact (though I should be; I kind of block out that gross "choosing" moment when I think about it or else it can be hard for me to like the author - dramatic I know, sorry!) I do think the idea of control before you can heal is potentially realistic? I'm thinking methadone for heroin addicts; first you get the destructive behavior (shooting yourself up) under control and then you can treat the underlying addiction to the opioid. Of course plenty of people remain on methadone, so stagnated in their recovery, which I hope doesn't happen to Shallan.... ... because I want this Shallan back. I know it's likely not realistic, and I know it's not likely to happen, but I really want our end game main female protagonist to be someone readers can rally behind, not someone who spawns a dozen hate threads. #kadolinforever - always in my heart even if not on the page (talk about ship that's sunk to the bottom of the ocean!)
  14. I think this is a little strong of a characterization based on what I think is the only feedback we've gotten from the author. Here's the link to that WoB, and I would encourage people to listen to it as it comes across a little differently (to me) in the audio. It seems to be saying that having control is a step forward, but that's not the end game for her mental health. We also have the WoB (linked below) regarding there being one Shallan in the spiritual realm, which to me strongly suggests reintegration would be the end goal. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/256-oathbringer-london-signing/#e8699 https://wob.coppermind.net/events/262-oathbringer-glasgow-signing/#e8785
  15. Yes, thank you! I think this may have been when I got Syl = pretty into my head. Of course, I was offending Rock by attributing this to him Totally agree there seems to be a theme of how Syl is presented, even if the exact words aren't always there. So... does this mean anything? Considering she can be any form she wants in the physical world, why does she choose to present herself like this to Kaladin? (Unless it's just a mimicry of her cognitive world form, and I don't think spren have much, if any, control over that.)