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      Oathbringer Spoiler Policy   11/13/2017

      Oathbringer is out! Let's make our policy on spoilers clear! 1. You must preface topics with Oathbringer spoilers with the prefix [OB] in the front 2. You are only allowed to post spoilers and spoiler topics in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board, Cosmere Theories, and some select work-related forums. 3. For posts in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board you do not need to use spoiler tags inside a topic marked [OB]. For Cosmere Theories, you also do not need to put spoiler tags inside your topic if the topic has [OB] in the title. However, for Cosmere Theories, if you are adding Oathbringer stuff to an old theory without the [OB] tag, those must go in spoiler tags and you must make it obvious outside the spoiler tag that the spoiler is regarding Oathbringer content. 4. For select things that do require talking about OB spoilers, in Events, Coppermind, and Arcanum forums, those are allowed but keep OB spoilers in spoiler tags 5. Avoid and minimize spoilers in topic titles--even though those two boards will not appear in the Recent Topics ticker, topic titles still appear in Recent Activity and the forum home.  6. You aren't allowed to post Oathbringer spoilers in places other than listed, even with spoiler tags.  It will be nine months and then the Oathbringer board will be re-merged with the Stormlight board and you will not need to tag these spoilers. If you'd like to move something in the Stormlight Archive board to the Oathbringer board, to update it with new Oathbringer information, Report the post and we will happily move it to the Oathbringer spoiler board. Part-by-part Reactions Though the Oathbringer Spoiler Board will be very spoilery, very fast (maybe don't come there until you've read the book, as people do have copies that bookstores sold early), you'll have these five topics for reactions if you want to nerd out: Part 1 Reactions
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Everything posted by SLNC

  1. Right. That makes actually more sense.
  2. I don't think so actually... She starts getting interested in natural history, her calling, by acting on Helaran's advice, when she was just drawing corpses after her mother's death. That was also where she started to build personaShallan and bury realShallan. But, to be fair, I believe, that personaShallan is part of realShallan... Veil is just what is closest to what was buried right now. It really is complicated. EDIT: In hindsight, what Phin said below makes more sense.
  3. I'd be surprised.
  4. 1. & 2. Because Syl really wants to get Kaladin a girlfriend. That is also why she alludes to the once planned marriage between them. To the bolded section: ... I didn't say that only that he probably wouldn't lose much sleep over it if he wasn't there to protect her. He certainly would protect her if he was there. To the spoiler: Yes! And that is also why I made my case for that a few posts back
  5. That is what they are for. Yes, I also find it extremely appalling, that Laral seemingly sees this as a good excuse to destroy a family.
  6. I disagree. I think, this is the best description of realShallan, we've got so far. This isn't personaShallan. personaShallan is the "prim, excitable girl who had been trained by cautious Vorin society." And personaShallan is what Adolin has been seeing primarily. And what he fell in love with. If this is realShallan, then I would place her closer to Veil... And we both know who Veil prefers.
  7. I think, that would be for the best. Let others add comments and then add them to the document. Or give certain persons rights to edit.
  8. Laral changed. People do. Kaladin sees that and notices that any romantic feelings that might have been there when he was crushing on her are gone. I mean, are you okay with how Laral talked to him? A supposed friend? I'm not discounting the possibility, that there could be something between them in the future, but any romantic attraction that was there is terribly, terribly dead. They'd have to start again at square one and then Kaladin could also date Jenet or May Aladar for all that it is worth. I just don't see any special connection between them anymore and Kaladin seemingly doesn't either. I'm absolutely not saying, that he would abandon anyone, but that he probably wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over not being there for Laral and Roshone, if something would happen to them. Lirin, Hesina and Oroden? Dalinar, Shallan or Adolin? Bridge Four? We're talking about depression deluxe again. Like after Elhokar, because he started to care about him personally. But we can agree to disagree and wait for whatever happens. I really don't want to start a fight with you over speculation.
  9. Hold on. Like I said, if he needed to protect in concordance with his Ideals, he would, but not because he cares personally about them. For his family, he would ride a thousand highstorms, for Laral and Roshone? I doubt it. He can't be everywhere after all, but if he were there and they needed protection, he would protect them.
  10. But he met Laral before, that is different. She was his childhood friend/crush. Even after she really mistreated him in his youth, he thought about coming back and saving her (yeah, I don't like that wording either, but it is what it is). I mean sure, there is a possibility, but man, that was a harsh dismissal. And I can understand him. Laral has zero understanding. Yes, she tells him, that she was sorry to hear about Tien, but only as an off-hand comment. Is that how you talk to an old childhood friend, that lost his little brother, because of your own husband? And then this, Kaladin doesn't even give a damnation about Hearthstone, Roshone and Laral anymore. Sure, he would protect them, if he needed because of his oaths, but not because he cares about them.
  11. Absolutely. I do too. Regarding Laral: Let's be honest. Kaladin sounded pretty damnation turned off.
  12. I could dig it, but I'm not so sure if we'll see Rysn interacting much with Kaladin. She seems like a tool (yeah harsh word, isn't meant like that) for Brandon to show us more of Roshar. Especially with her having the ship now. I think, she'll stay as an interlude character for the time being.
  13. @Ailvara Great, great work! This will be a useful reference. @Harbour Maybe put the link in the OP?
  14. Yeah, that would be a great question, but I'd guess, that it would be RAFO'd.
  15. Hm. I don't think so. Well, that they need someone to anchor them. That shouldn't be the responsibility of the partner, but you are of course entitled to your opinion.
  16. I don't see that as a positive. She needs support yes, but not blind support. Blind support will lead to stagnation, as we are already seeing. He doesn't always brood, those periods got a lot shorter and not as heavy, if anything he feels better around Shallan, ... when does he 'fly away as he please' like that? I'll be honest, that is a pretty damnation shallow and negative characterization of Kaladin.
  17. She was protecting her brothers, especially Balat. Lin had finally lost it and already had killed her stepmother. I do think, he would be fine with that. How else should she have killed Lin? Hand-to-hand combat? Depends. Shallan/Veil isn't a Ghostblood out of conviction, but because she originally wanted to find out more about them, because she thought they assassinated Jasnah. Having a spy is useful. I do think, that Kaladin could see that. Nope. That is what Shallan infers from that conversation. He said, that he would do it eagerly, but she didn't even tell him the extent of what has happened to her, since she only mysteriously makes an off-hand mention of it "fragmenting her". I think it is unfair to just conclude, that Kaladin doesn't understand, because (a) he was in a pretty bad mindset himself during the conversation and (b) she was not speaking straight to him about it.
  18. That would be funny. A revelatory moment for both. But I think, that Kaladin's Fourth Ideal won't mean quite that. He just needs to realize, that he can't protect everyone. I don't think, that is about protecting himself.
  19. Maybe... I have been thinking about how Kaladin might react if Shallan tells him about the situation in which she killed her mother. I honestly think, that he might actually commend her After all, she was protecting herself. I don't know, how Shallan would react to that, but that might give her another perspective, that she needs to finally accept herself as not a monster for doing that. I mean, when Kaladin, who is all about protecting and saving lives, gives her the "What should have you done except protecting yourself?" speech, that will probably get to her. At least I hope.
  20. ... and the reason, why he can't be there for the living and is instead only feeling for those that have died. Which I think is the more important takeaway from this. I do think, that he was/is interested in romance, but he still can't let go of those, that have died and will continue to die. This correlates with what we expect the Fourth Ideal to be, that he has to realize, that he can't protect everyone and why he has problems in speaking it. Well, on the surface, you can certainly see it like that, that he only sees Shallan as someone, that can cheer him up, but I think, that it is yet another cop-out for himself, just as he has done through Oathbringer ("She's Adolin's betrothed", etc.). His thoughts about Shallan during the book were quite romantic and profound actually. And well, how can he have feelings for the living, when he only thinks about the dead. That was also was Tarah told him in the flashback, which also involved the stone again. But, that is not the topic at hand here. First of all, I don't think, that there is an ideal partner for everyone. People are not fixed, but change. Sometimes you fall in love with someone and, a few years later, they have changed so much, that you rather break up. While there are no ideal partners, there are good matches and, to be quite honest, for Kaladin I still only see She Who Shall(an) Not Be Named. She challenges him intellectually, which he enjoys. She is one of the few people, that can actually make him smile and laugh at times. You don't have to like Shallan's humor, but they are on the same wavelength in that regard. He doesn't feel the need to constantly babysit and protect her, he knows, that she can protect herself. In Kholinar, Shallan/Veil asks Kaladin to stay back, when she goes into the palace. Kaladin does so. He notices when she is happy and feels a desire to keep her that way. (On the flight to Kholinar.) They work incredibly well together. Naturally, without any profound planning. The way she created an illusion of Kaladin during the chasmfiend fight showed that. They didn't plan it, but she did it anyway and helped him. And he doesn't judge her for the things, that she had to do in her past. He understands, that you sometimes have to do the things, that you have to do. If anything, I think he would even actually see Shallan killing her mother in that situation as positive, because she was protecting herself. Well, the last point is a bit contentious, but we have an annotation by Brandon, that says the following. Kaladin is passionate about... life, I guess? Shallan is too, she shows it at times. (For instance against Re-Shephir) But that person is still buried inside her. Which brings me to the conclusion, that Shallan is the best match for Kaladin, but... not right now. She first needs to find herself. The timid Shallan we now have as her default personality might be a good match for Adolin, but that what seems to be far more "her" and truer to her person, that passionate, spirited woman? I don't think so. That fits much better with Kaladin. And I think, that she will become that person in the end. She needs to, to attain self-awareness and continue on her path of Radiancy. Then again, I don't think, that Kaladin is ready for any romantic feelings for the living until he has finally realized, that he can't save everyone. There are only so many resources one has. And... again I've gone way deeper into character analysis, than I wanted to.
  21. Well, I'm obviously not of the belief, that "Shallan" is the trueShallan for that she is waaay too different from WoRShallan - way too unconfident and weak. What I think is that by the end of OB, she still had no idea, who she is so she made the decision on the personality at which Adolin squeezed her hand. Had it been Veil? She probably would have chosen Veil as her primary. I think. Of course, that is not realistic, because Adolin acted on visual cues, but I do think, that Shallan basically made Adolin choose for her. On a side note, this makes the scene even worse for me. *sigh* Frustrating, that she never even considers herself to be all of her personalities combined, but it is a coping mechanism after all. She sees trueShallan as a monster and non functioning.
  22. Brandon is often vague to keep options. Anyway. What Kaladin and Syl share is something, that is more intimate than any interpersonal relationship could ever be. They have melded their spiritwebs, that is a lot more than Connection through love. At any rate, a romantic relationship between Kaladin and Syl would diminish how much the Nahel bond really means. It just isn't romantic and it doesn't need to be. But that is just my two cents.
  23. Regarding Syladin: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/171-oathbringer-release-party/#e8267 Sorry for being a buzzkill.
  24. Lirin is passive? He is a surgeon, that is literally in non-stop action, when someone is hurt.
  25. I don't think Jasnah is interested in a romantic relationship atm, but you never know.