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SLNC last won the day on February 11

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About SLNC

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  1. You're the only one here talking about, how this single thing might doom the relationship.
  2. And actually listening to your partner and not cut her off, when she tries to tell you something.
  3. The text literally says vague. As in: Not sure. Not distinct. Besides, looking at him wishing objection, could certainly have affected his perception.
  4. He cut her off. He was tactless. No way around it. I do kinda agree with your second paragraph though. And yet, Kaladin constantly gets rust for not immediately realizing, what she meant with "fracturing"... Double standards... @BraidedRose last post has a pretty good paragraph about, why Kaladin didn't realize it, but for some reason, these posts always get ignored.
  5. Well, I for one never said, that Adolin is to blame for it. In the end, the creation of Radiant was Shallan's decision. But, what we can't ignore, is that he did act as a catalyst in that situation. And, I think, what I can blame him for is that he absolutely did not notice Shallan's unease in the situation. I get, that he was quite enthusiastic, but he didn't even let Shallan say something and was completely blind to her rather obvious distress. So yes, the decision was Shallan's, but I'd wager, that she hadn't made it, if Adolin hadn't unwittingly pressured her. But, I have to say, I'm quite confused about the relevance of that in regards to the topic at hand.
  6. And why do you believe, that Adolin believes differently, when we have absolutely no textual basis, that he does? I can understand, that personal experiences might blur your view on what is happening in the books, but nothing says, that what happened to you must happen to Kaladin and Shallan. If anything, Kaladin already made big steps in the right direction with handling his depressive episodes, as the one in Part 4 of Oathbringer showed. I never said, that Shallan should be an anchor to hold on to - the final solution -, I said, that for depressive persons, persons that elicit happiness, by just being them, are a good support. Not just in handling their depression, but in general. What is love, but being happy with your partner? Vice versa, whenever Shallan was alone with Kaladin, she came out of her own. She let her masks fall and just - was herself. That is why I think they are good for each other. Yes, Kaladin didn't get what she meant with "fracturing". That wasn't good, but the ramifications of it were good. His praise for that made Shallan extremely uncomfortable, because deep down she knows, that it isn't good what she is doing. This is what she needs! She herself needs to realize, that her current path is not good, before she can even change something. Adolin just confirms her of her current ways. And, by the way, Shallan does it, too. When he told her about him killing Sadeas, I think, he was desperately looking for someone to tell him, that what he did is wrong. She didn't. She needs to tackle the root of her problems: Waving away anything that is painful. The masks are just a consequence of that. Kaladin's praise of it, combined with the fact, that around him - for some reason - she is herself, made her think outside the box. Outside of her gridlocked thought process. It is hard, yes, it is painful, yes, but it is the only way to solve your problems. You have to confront them and not just learn to live with them.
  7. He did feel a stirring on the wind. He just interpreted the eagerness into it. After that he felt something like a sigh from Maya.
  8. And you think people with mental problems know what is best for them? The point is that they aren't different people. All Adolin is doing is enabling her. I only see one big thing there: She pushes away the darkness -> She makes him happy, by just being around her. Of course, it is no final solution but... As a past sufferer of depression myself (I'm feeling pretty good at the moment, but who knows when it will come again), these people are what keep giving you hope, when you are despairing.
  9. Alright, it, in my opinion, has nothing to do with denying Veil and Radiant or accepting them, but with how someone views them. I'm not going to repeat everything @BraidedRose said, but what Wit's advice boils down to is basically: Shallan should return to the woman she was. The woman, that didn't fracture herself into Veil, Radiant and Shallan. This is basically reintegrating all these personas into herself again. For this she'd have to accept her pin though, since that pain was the largest. catalyst for the fracturing. Adolin sees Veil and Radiant as different people, because that is how Shallan told him it and I don't blame him. She always wore a mask for him, so he never before has *seen the Veil and Radiant traits, that Shallan possesses*. If he really fell in love with Shallan, he fell in love with that mask, that basically is what is left of "Shallan" after her fracturing. Scholarly, a bit quirky, but the good Vorin girl. The problem I see is, that Shallan now has this big motivation of keeping Veil, Radiant and Shallan seperated, because Adolin chose "Shallan". This is counterintuitive to what Wit has told her. She might be stable now, but also stagnant, because it also is the opposite of being self-aware. She is keeping up the lie of her not being Veil and Radiant. I don't think, that it will have bad implications for their relationship though, if the status quo continues. And I see no reason why Adolin would change his view on Veil and Radiant. Problem is, that this will hinder Shallan in progressing. IMHO. Kaladin... Now he. He has seen Shallan show Veil-like behavior (Boots scene and partly in the chasms) and Radiant-like behavior (The chasms again, where she built the alcove for them, while he had a broken leg). If he fell in love with her, he fell in love with *all* of her. Also I think, that Kaladin would be one that would challenge her, if she outright told him of Veil and Radiant. He would probably be dumbfounded and tell her, that he never noticed, because for him she always has been like that. And that is what I think Shallan needs. Not confirmation, that leaves her stable, but stagnant. But a different perspective, a nudge, that brings her to think. I think, Kaladin would provide that. And I also have no inclination to believe, that he would be unsupportive. I've stated this before, but when it comes to mental issues, blind support can be just as harmful as no support.
  10. Maybe this conversation should be moved to a different thread, since it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I'm not really invested in it though, so I won't keep it up fo the sake of it.
  11. It does. The lover, that her mother had was a Skybreaker acolyte, who then saw, that Shallan was about to become a Lightweaver and probably told Shallan's mother, that Shallan had to die for the greater good(tm) and how that would help save the world etc. etc. They tried to kill her, but without ever telling someone else about Shallan, probably because the acolyte wanted to impress his master, so no one else knew about her powers, which after the traumatizing event of her killing her mother went dormant anyway. Why should have anyone else tried to kill Shallan after that, when she didn't show any Surgebinding? Now regarding the general problem of how Shallan's childhood looked before her killing her mother: First of all, we don't have much information of that time, but we have some things that we can pretty easily infer from things we know. There is one thing, that Lin probably always had anger issues, but never laid a hand on Shallan. She was the golden child, Lin's only daughter. This probably is what brought her to remember that time as "happy". This continued later, too. And it is one thing, that she hated. Everyone getting her father's ire, while she never did. This is actually a thing, that she and Kaladin have a in common. He hates that he is always the one, that survived, when everyone he tried to protect died. Self-blame. And she actually tells him about it. But the other big thing is: Her mother had a lover. This brings to think, that the marriage between Lin and Shallan's mother wasn't as happy as one might think. They probably fought - a lot. Maybe even about Shallan. Parents often think, that their children don't notice this stuff, but they do. And they often see themselves as the one to blame for it. This chafes on them, maybe enough to make her pliable to bond Pattern, but what is even bigger is, that we know that Pattern was attracted because of her lies. Children are great at telling themselves, that everything will be good. Everything will be fine. Everything is fine. What I'm saying is, that a child doesn't have to be directly in the line of fire, to be affected by family troubles. Especially between her parents. I don't think, that those memories are a straight lie either. Parents often keep a "happy" facade up for their children. I think, what Shallan is worried about is that emergence of those repressed memories might bring up other memories, which in turn then might show her, that her childhood wasn't really as happy as she made herself believe. Lied to herself about.
  12. I personally think, that the first time she "hears" Wit's voice it is just her imagination, remembering and paraphrasing his advice. The second voice still is her imagination, but twisted by Ashertmarn's influence of reveling, prompting her to instead indulge in her habit.
  13. I think you're referring to the vase thing, right? Okay, so we can all agree on the real Shallan being broken, right? You see, Adolin completely misunderstands her here. She is the vase, not what is inside the vase, which is what Adolin thinks. She is the crack in the vase, so she puts forth the parts of her, that she thinks aren't broken to hide the flaw. Veil, the conwoman (let's face it, she has been conning everyone from the beginning), Radiant, the Radiant, and Shallan, the scholar. All of this combined: That is Shallan, as we've seen her before, not some different new person, that is being hidden by all of them. Trauma has broken them apart and Shallan is unwilling to accept, that she is all of them combined, because switching between them allows her to function, without quite being herself. Think about it... It doesn't make sense, if Veil and Radiant were different persons, because firstly, like you yourself said, they are based on herself, but secondly, and most importantly, everything she does, when she thinks she is Veil or Radiant, she actually does herself. All of the persona stuff, just in her head. She is perfectly capable to do all the stuff, she does as Veil and as Radiant by herself. It is just her traumatized mind rebelling against it, because she is not accepting the pain. She's hiding from it. And her pre-wedding scene is just another juxtaposition of accepting the pain. She is forcing herself to be happy, which indeed is not what happiness should be like. She is keeping Veil and Radiant around, because she still can't accept the pain. Regarding Adolin knowing the real Shallan: Boy, he doesn't know anything yet.
  14. After she told him about Veil and Radiant, he says something along the lines of "This is troubling. You becoming different people." At the end of OB, Shallan tells us how Veil and Adolin are starting to get along, but the importance is in how. Adolin is treating Veil like she is a different person. Adolin is treating her like a drinking buddy, clearly drawing a line between Veil and Shallan. Most strongly exemplified in him denying any intimacy between him and Veil. Or more, not engaging in any from his side. I'd have liked to see more from Adolin perspective on this aspect, I agree, but given the text, I have no inclination to believe, that he is having some kind of different insight on Shallan's personas. I agree with your interpretation, but I would really like to know why you think Adolin understands that. I see nothing in the text, that indicates this.
  15. It absolutely is important, which persona tells Adolin. Adolin sees Veil as a different person. As such he wouldn't think Shallan is involved with the Ghostbloods, but Veil. Which is not only false, since even if Shallan acts as Veil, she is still Shallan, but further fortifies Shallan's own distinctions she makes in her mind between Shallan and Veil, further amplifying the issue still at hand.