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      Oathbringer Spoiler Policy   11/13/2017

      Oathbringer is out! Let's make our policy on spoilers clear! 1. You must preface topics with Oathbringer spoilers with the prefix [OB] in the front 2. You are only allowed to post spoilers and spoiler topics in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board, Cosmere Theories, and some select work-related forums. 3. For posts in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board you do not need to use spoiler tags inside a topic marked [OB]. For Cosmere Theories, you also do not need to put spoiler tags inside your topic if the topic has [OB] in the title. However, for Cosmere Theories, if you are adding Oathbringer stuff to an old theory without the [OB] tag, those must go in spoiler tags and you must make it obvious outside the spoiler tag that the spoiler is regarding Oathbringer content. 4. For select things that do require talking about OB spoilers, in Events, Coppermind, and Arcanum forums, those are allowed but keep OB spoilers in spoiler tags 5. Avoid and minimize spoilers in topic titles--even though those two boards will not appear in the Recent Topics ticker, topic titles still appear in Recent Activity and the forum home.  6. You aren't allowed to post Oathbringer spoilers in places other than listed, even with spoiler tags.  It will be nine months and then the Oathbringer board will be re-merged with the Stormlight board and you will not need to tag these spoilers. If you'd like to move something in the Stormlight Archive board to the Oathbringer board, to update it with new Oathbringer information, Report the post and we will happily move it to the Oathbringer spoiler board. Part-by-part Reactions Though the Oathbringer Spoiler Board will be very spoilery, very fast (maybe don't come there until you've read the book, as people do have copies that bookstores sold early), you'll have these five topics for reactions if you want to nerd out: Part 1 Reactions
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      Full Book Reactions For parts 1-4, they will not include the interludes immediately following it. On Discord All Oathbringer spoilers on Discord will be exclusively in the #oathbringer_spoilers channel for the nine month spoiler period and nowhere else.

Starla

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About Starla

  1. Jasnah has my favorite quote in Oathbringer when she says to Dalinar “I don’t need company to be confident." This sums up why I love her so much. She's strong and secure in her own skin, relies on her own internal compass for direction, and stands her ground without needing approval or validation from others. I was also pleased to see her displaying signs of empathy, so she isn't completely cold and logical. This gives me hope that she will be a good queen. I think she is capable of making it work if she continues to tap into to her empathetic side while standing firm in her calm confidence in her own abilities.
  2. I thought Kaladin made great progress in this book in several key areas where he struggled in the first two books: He has embraced his status as a Knight Radiant and is no longer hiding. When he visited Hearthstone and the other towns in northern Alethkar, he revealed himself to his family and the townsfolk, and gave advice on how to prepare for what is to come. He spent time training his squires and recruiting new squires, he participated in KR meetings when he was in Urithiru, and he devoted himself fully to protecting Dalinar when he learned he was in trouble. His distrust and hatred of lighteyes has been greatly reduced. He befriended a group of lighteyed guards in Kholinar and came to understand the power dynamics between the varying dahn levels. He mourned these same lighteyed guards when they died, alongside members of his old squad, fellow slaves, and Bridge Four members he’s lost. He doe not flinch when referred to as “Brightlord” and he accepts the land Elhokar gave him. He no longer mentally dwells on intense feelings of hatred toward Amaram and Roshone, and deals with them both in a straightforward manner. He punches Roshone to get it out of his system, then talks to him about what needs to be done to help the people of Hearthstone. We do not see him ruminate on his hatred Amaram at all through the book. He doesn’t seem perturbed by the fact that Amaram Highprince of the Sadeas princedom. When he finally confronts Amaram in battle, he faces him head on in the fight, and in their moral discussion during the fighting. His mood is very stable during the first three parts of the book, and he even smiled some. When he begins to fall into a depressive episode in Part 4 after losing Elhokar, he reflects on his dark mood and considers why it was happening and how to stop it. There is a scene in Chapter 95 where he has attracts anger spren in Shadesmar, and he spends a fair amount of time analyzing his emotions. He says to the group "My emotions are irrational. I’ll try to contain them," and the anger spren move on. He realizes he is being grumpy towards Adolin and forces himself to stop, acknowledging that Adolin helped him. He sees himself sinking into a negative thought pattern, and chooses to “fight it” (his words) by turning his attention to the task at hand. This is the first time we have seen him actively work to pull himself out of a funk instead of succumbing to it. He spends the rest of the Shadesmar trip focusing on getting to Dalinar, or getting Syl out of prison, rather than brooding and dwelling on negativity. All of these areas show psychological growth. He may not have progressed in his ideals or developed new super-awesome surgebinding abilities or gained shardplate, but I think the progress in his mental health will contribute to his progression as a radiant in the next book.
  3. @Dreamstorm I have similar thoughts as you on Laral. I disliked her after WOK due to the snobby kitchen incident, and I still think she owes Kaladin an apology for that. However, I came around on her in Oathbringer. Not only does she have the respect of her guards, but she seemed to be out working in the rain in boots and a "utilitarian havah." Being married to Roshone can't have been easy for her, but rather than being beaten down and weakened by it, she seems like is being the strong leader her town needs. I like that she didn't fawn all over Kaladin and his shardblate, nor want his protection. I think Laral might have some radiant potential. She hasn't had the easiest life but seems to have made the best of it. I like your idea of everyone being in Urithiru in book four. I would love to see the Hearthstone crew interacting with our main cast, and I want to see more of little Oroden growing up. @Rainier I see you have the same problem with Laral I did, with that scene with Rillir in the kitchen. That really bothered me when I first read it. I agree that it did not portray her in a positive light. However I can see she was in a difficult situation, and when I think back to myself at 15 years old, I probably also did some stupid things too. When I look at her now, she seems much more mature, and she is helping the people of Hearthstone. I still need to see more to make a final decision on her character, but I think she has some potential.
  4. @Dreamstorm Thanks for the input on the spren. I was racking my brain trying to think of the connection between Cryptics and Honorspren and how it related deeply buried emotions. Sometimes it's not that complicated.
  5. Thanks for responding with a different point of view! I went back and read the Wit chapter again. I interpret it as Wit saying that all of Shallan’s personas are her, including the two illusions they are watching of the overwhelmed girl curled up in a ball, and the girl standing up and forgiving herself. The True Shallan is the one who birthed all the personas, and is a fully integrated whole person. In his words “I only see one woman standing here.” Wit doesn’t focus on the illusions or distinguish between her personalities, they are all her. Compare this with the end of the book, where her personas are rapidly flickering. Adolin is seeing the individual personas, not the integrated whole. He doesn’t say “I only see only see one woman” he sees the individual fragments, picks one he recognizes, and says “that’s you.” If the fully integrated Shallan were present in this moment, I don’t think she would be flickering between the fragmented parts. This is why I don’t feel that she is steady at the end of the book, she had separated out more, and one of her "parts" has been confirmed by Adolin to be the "whole." [ @Dreamstorm Thanks for quoting the whole Wit passage... it makes my post easier to manage. ] As for the "Shallan" persona, I think she refers to it in Chapter 30 during the Re-Shephir fight. She describes it as “the prim, excitable girl who had been trained by cautious Vorin society...she was so nice, so sweet...described as diverting or clever.” I think this is the Shallan we’ve seen so far in the first three books, the one Adolin recognizes and chooses, and the persona Shallan herself describes as false in Chapter 62, which I quoted further up in on the page. Also, there is this WOB, which I see referring to the true Shallan (from the WOK annotations, Nov. 24, 2017. Link). The good news is that he says "the person she could become is buried inside her.” I think we’ve seen glimpses of this Shallan, but they’ve been very brief. I am dying to more of this Shallan with the flaring passion. Also about this quote, I wonder what he means by Shallan and Kaladin attracting a certain type of spren? I'm not seeing the connection there.
  6. @SLNC I see it the same way you do. She allowed someone else to tell her who she is because she was tired of not knowing. Sometimes it's easier to go along with whatever you're told rather than undergoing to exhausting process of figuring it out for yourself. At least she had this moment of self-awareness in Kholinar, so maybe she'll get back there at some point in the future. It's interesting, Jasnah had my favorite quote of the whole series so far in Part 2 of this book, where she said to Dalinar “I don’t need company to be confident." I feel like Shallan is at the opposite place at the end of this book.
  7. I came across an interesting quote in my OB reread, and I don’t believe I’ve seen it posted here. The quote is from Chapter 62, when Shallan tells Vathah and Ishnah about Veil. It is related to the question of whether the “Shallan” we see in the books is just another persona, or if she is the true identity with Veil and Radiant being the false personas. It seems that Shallan answers that question here: So how does this reconcile with the common notion that the “Shallan" that Adolin identifies at the end of the book is the “real” Shallan? I don’t see that end-of-book Shallan is any different from the Shallan in this scene in Kholinar. I personally don’t think we’ve seen the real full Shallan in the books yet, though I think we came close during the Re-Shephir encounter. It is my interpretation (like many others in this thread) that all of her fragmented personas, including Shallan, Veil, and Radiant, make up the larger True Shallan, which is a single individual in the Spiritual Realm, but fragmented in the Physical Realm. Taking this quote into account, I’d be curious to hear from someone who believes that the “Shallan” at the end of the book, as identified by Adolin, is her true self, and why you think that. This might be the key piece I’m missing to understand where Shallan is at the end of the book. ( I am determined to figure this thing out one way or another. )
  8. I don’t think this is much of an issue anymore. He has made a lot of progress in Oathbringer. He became friends with a lighteyed prince, had a crush on a lighteyed girl, and grieved the loss of a squad of lighteyed guards when they died. And he is a part-time lighteyes himself and doesn’t flinch when someone calls him Brightlord. I do agree he probably wouldn’t want to be King of Alethkar, considering he was freaked out about having land with 6 or 7 small villages. So is this better or worse than "you remind me of my brother?" As for the topic at hand, we’re still 3 books out of 10 so there is plenty of time to introduce new side characters. Assuming there is a one year gap between books 3 and 4, both sides will likely use that time to build up their ranks. This means lots of new radiants could be introduced in the next book. I could see Kaladin with another radiant that he can work with, one that is more battle-oriented than scholar-oriented, so they can go out and help people. Ideally this person would not be a damsel in distress that needs protecting, so she can defend herself and he wouldn’t be constantly worried about her safety. Looking at the existing characters… I’m not feeling most of them. Jasnah would be the closest, but she does fine on her own without a partner, which is one of things I love about her. Ash is an interesting thought I hadn’t considered that before. Talk about a big age difference, though. Rysn, Lyn, Mae Aladar, Azure, Tarah, I'm not seeing any of those for various reasons. Laral... she seemed pretty strong in the Hearthstone chapter in OB, so it's not a terrible idea. She may even be a radiant candidate with all she's ben through. I may be open to her, but right now I like the new character idea better.
  9. @RShara You nearly have me convinced about the tattoo. Though to complicate matters, I wonder if Shallan got a Ghostbloods tattoo (a real one, not an illusion), would it stick if she only associates her Veil persona with the Ghostbloods? I'm thinking it wouldn't. So many identity issues with our dear radiants...
  10. I still feel like a new tattoo would heal no matter how the person sees themselves, if that person were holding stormlight while they were getting the tattoo, or perhaps during the first couple weeks. A tattoo is an injury. It breaks the skin and there is often blood, skin irritation, scabs, etc. I suppose it is possible for the person to hold a very clear vision of the new tattoo in their mind until the wound heals, but that would take a lot of focus and concentration for an extended period. You're basically telling your body "please don't heal this injury, I want to keep it." Once the tattoo has healed, then I believe the surgebinder could keep it if they identify it as part of themselves. Aside from Kaladin, all of Bridge Four's tattoos had fully healed by the time they could use stormlight, so we'll never know if theirs would have healed when they first got it.
  11. Even though I’m not a Syladin shipper, I don’t have any moral or ethical problem with it. I’ve read and watched enough fantasy and scifi over the years that I don’t have any issues with inter-species relationships of various sorts in a fantasy book, be it species from the same planet or different planets, realms, dimensions, universes, planes of existence, etc. My only question is whether all parties have free will to make their own choices. If they do, I don’t much care where they come from or what their anatomy looks like. I also don’t have a problem with beings who are connected at a soul level loving each other, in fact, I would expect them to share a deep love and understanding of one another that is unavailable to totally “separate” individuals. There are various ways to love another being, it may or may not be romantic and/or sexual. This doesn’t mean the relationship can’t be as deeply loving and intimate as a same-species love relationship. The boundaries and definitions of loving another are flexible. Genders, species, level of physicality, numbers of parties involved, depth of connection, everybody can love. I’d say a human and spren with a nahel bond can love each other across all three realms. There is more to the physical realm than just sex. There is talking to each other, enjoying the company of the other person, feeling empathy when the other is sad or happy or afraid, general friendship and companionship. Just because they are in a bond that would be terribly painful to break, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t love each other in whatever way they want to while they are together. They were both individual entities before the bond and both chose to initiate it, so no one is being forced or coerced to do anything. All that said, I’d personally rather Kaladin be in a romantic relationship with a person he can actually touch, but that’s just my personal preference for what I'd like to read in this particular story. However, if all he needs is emotional support and companionship, then maybe Syl is enough to satisfy that.
  12. @Subvisual Haze Do you feel like the brands didn't show through the old man illusion because that was depicting someone else entirely? The old man would not have the brands so the illusion sticks, whereas Kaladin as himself would have the brands so the forehead-only illusion doesn't stick. Interesting question about the tattoo. I bet it would be difficult for any surgebinder to get a tattoo, since it is an injury and stormlight would heal it. I bet Kaladin would be able to keep the tattoo if he went through a no-stormlight phase while it heals.
  13. @Dreamstorm I listened to the audio clips, and I still have a different gut reaction to the end of the book than what Brandon is saying ("Yes, she's much more in control, but still has a way to go."). My initial response was that she handed her control to Adolin (and if she had chosen Kaladin I would have felt the same). I don't feel this this is satisfying for Shallan as a character, and isn't fair to Adolin. I realize this is totally an emotional response on my part and may have no basis in truth and reality, but for some reason I haven't been able to shake it. @GameOfGroans There has been some discussion of Shallan being influenced by an outside entity. I didn't pick up on it in my previous read-through, but I can see it being a possibility. Dalinar was intentionally influenced by Nergaoul for decades, so it happens. I'm currently in Part 3 of a re-read, so I'll pay close attention with Shallan's interactions with Sja-Anat to see if I pick up something I missed. It would certainly ease my mind about Shallan giving away her power so quickly.
  14. I thought it was interesting that the full illusion when they entered Kholinar (ugly old man) stayed intact, but the partial illusion covering the scars did not. I assumed it was related to his view of himself, but if that's the case, why didn't the scars appear on the old man disguise?
  15. @GameOfGroans I can empathize with you...I recently went through the same thing with my mother. Sometimes Shallan’s coping mechanisms of repressing painful memories and blackouts triggers some deep feelings of sadness in me, and I have considered whether this is related to what my mother went through. I was deeply disturbed by Shallan’s storyline and resolution in Oathbringer. Shallan has the ability to transcend her problems and become a fully self-aware person with all aspects of her past and present intact in an integrated whole. I was so rooting for her to move in that direction, but the way the book ended, I felt that she was sinking deeper into fragmentation and loss of self, rather becoming more empowered and whole as a person. I still don’t fully understand why this makes me so sad, sometimes I have strong feelings without the words to articulate why I feel that way. Obviously some people are satisfied with where she ended and feel she is getting better, including the author himself. I hope I’ll eventually I'll see some growth in Shallan. Luckily the wonderful folks in this thread had helped me see that her storyline has the potential to continue on in interesting ways, and she is not necessarily doomed to the fate of happy princess wife who derives her strength and sense of self from a partner.