Starla

I believe Sanderson said something like "Kaladin is extra-aligned with Honor’s Intent," which may also have contributed to his staying awake.

This reminds me of a crackpot idea I had during the Hearthstone chapters in part 1, but what if that region is associated with Honor somehow? Navani mentions hearing a "pure tone" when Dalinar opens the perpendicularity there, and in Oathbringer Syl mentions hearing a "pure tone like cracked crystal" when they arrive in Hearthstone. Could this be Honor's tone? Also, the Windrunner River runs through that area, and Nazh has marked Hearthstone on the Alethkar map in Oathbringer. If I recall correctly from Dalinar's visions, Alethkar was generally associated with Windrunners, So perhaps there is some connection between Honor and the Hearthstone area, similar to how Cultivation is associated with the Valley.

One thing I'm noticing on a reread of Rhythm of War is how much Kaladin's depression has been amplified by external circumstances throughout the book. He was doing a lot better in part 2, helping the soldiers with PTSD and spending time with his family. In chapter 39 he told Teft and Rlain: “It has been helping,” he said. “I think … I think I might be putting myself back together, for the first time in my life.” And right in that moment the radiant suppressor is activated and Teft drops to the table. This is how he describes it in the book: "Kaladin felt a striking moment of disorientation. A feeling of oppression on his mind, like a dark force trying to smother him." This oppression continues through the rest of the book, getting worse and worse with each node that is corrupted by voidlight and destroyed. Syl also feels it, and her mood also gets darker through the book. It doesn't go away until after Kaladin has sworn the fourth ideal, when Navani bonds the Sibling. Added to this we have Kaladin being tormented by Odium every time he goes to sleep. This starts right after the invasion. He has visions of people he loves dying or killing each other over and over. Some of it is just straight up torture on what sounds like Braize. It's probably a hint of what the heralds much have gone through. And yet despite these nightmares and the resulting exhaustion, Kaladin gets up and helps Navani and the Sibling every time they ask for it. It is this combination of the depression, the suppressor fabrial, and the Odium visions all combining to sabotage his thoughts and actions. Of course Kaladin thinks all of it is his fault, his weakness, his own mind betraying him. Yet despite all that he keeps going and helping people as long as he can, even though he fully expects to die at the end of it. His story in this book is not always easy to read, but personally I find it inspiring.

I wonder if the ancient singers could bond with the higher spren to take a specific form, similar to how they currently bond with lesser spren to take Workform, Warform, etc, and this granted some form of power that resembles the current radiant powers and ideals. Like a singer who has an Honorspren in their gemheart would be exhibit honorable traits and protect others of their kind, with perhaps some access to gravitation. Sadly, I doubt her Honorspren (Riah) is still around. All of the Honorspren were killed in the Recreance, except Syl. There were a couple of times in the book where Leshwi seems curious about Syl, and somehow knew she was very old. I'm guessing she wanted to ask Syl about Riah.

Interesting tidbit of info: Sanderson responded to a question on Reddit a few days ago, which asked if Honor is really dead or if the shard can be reclaimed. His response was that this will be answered in book 5. (And...I just spent way too much time going back through the massive ROW thread to find it. Here is the question and link: ) Q: The really question is, given the death of Rayse, is honor really dead? Or is his essence out there, still available to be claimed? A: I will answer this for certain by the end of Book Five. For now, RAFO. And there was this WOB from an event a few days ago: Q: What would happen to a spren if someone with a Nahel bond Ascended? A: It's a good question, and it is also a RAFO. These seem to imply that someone with a nahel bond might try to reform/take up the shard of Honor in the next book. Pre-ROW I assumed this would be Dalinar, but post-ROW I'm leaning towards Kaladin (for the reasons pointed out in the thread, along with a few other small quotes and hints in the book that made me go hmm while reading). I'm not sure why or how he would be in the situation to attempt this, or if it is possible at all, but I am certainly curious to find out.

Rlain/Thude. They each seemed quite excited to know the other was still alive. Ship name = Rude.

I suspect we’ll get to see more of his work as a therapist in the next book since Dalinar is sending him to work with Ishar. Though I have no idea how he’s going to make the leap from soldiers with PTSD to mad scientist Bondsmith herald. Should be a fun journey, especially with Szeth and Nightblood along for the ride. Talk about a group that needs a therapy session. @Ramona Tehradin Great post. I especially agree about with your thoughts about Kaladin and Syl. Their relationship was my favorite part of this book and perhaps one of the best I've ever read.

I agree with this, but I think he still continues to inspire others while in stealth mode. This passage from Noril in Hesina’s interlude sums it up: “It’s hard sometimes,” Noril said, stirring. “Coming awake means leaving the nothingness, you know? Remembering the pain. But then I think, ‘Well, he gets up.’” “You mean Kaladin?” Lirin asked. “Yes, sir,” Noril said. “He’s got the emptiness, bad as I do. I can see it in him. We all can. But he gets up anyway. We’re trapped in here, and we all want to do something to help. We can’t, but somehow he can. “And you know, I’ve listened to ardents talk. I’ve been poked and prodded. I’ve been stuck in the dark. None of that worked as well as knowing this one thing, sir. He still gets up. He still fights. So I figure … I figure I can too.” I don't think we always need to see Kaladin out in front being a rock star. He can also help, protect, and inspire from behind the scenes, or in more subtle ways like helping the soldiers with PTSD. Once he was removed from duty it didn’t take long for him to find another group of people to support and protect. At the end of this book he told Dalinar he wanted to continue that work, so I hope we’ll see more of it going forward. Perhaps it’s my reading style, but I feel like both of these options are valid for a character, depending on the situation at hand. Sometimes it is appropriate to make a choice or action that other characters respond to, while at other times its necessary for a character to respond to something that is happening around them. In this particular book, it makes sense for Kaladin to respond to the invasion of Urithiru as part of a team effort including himself, Navani, Venli, Teft, Rlain, Dabbid, and Lift. They all came together to protect the Sibling, save the radiants, and to ultimately liberate Urithiru. They all came up with the plan that Kaladin detailed at the beginning of part 5. They are all, as a group, reacting to a threat and doing what’s needed to counter it, each in the best way they can. This works for me in this book. For me personally, I don’t think it would have been appropriate for Kaladin to have his own plot arc here where he is driving the narrative separate from the team. I agree, much of it was excruciating! I tend to read these books with my heart rather than my head (on the first read through, at least), and there were numerous scenes where I had to put the book down and take a break. I often wondered how much more can the man take before he breaks? How much more does he need to suffer? And to pile on top of his depression, PTSD, feelings of failure and guilt, and fatigue, he also is bombarded with visions from Odium for much of the book. We only got to see one of these first hand in the chapter with Wit, but it seemed like he was having these visions every time he went to sleep from part three onward. So it is very real to me that after all of this, he completely ran of steam. It reminded me of the Fleet story. Like Fleet, he fell and was reborn. I love that Dalinar was there to catch him. For the entire series now, Kaladin is the hero saving everyone. And in doing so he has built relationships with people who have come to care for him deeply. And in the end, it is the relationships that save him. If he had not saved and believed in Dalinar, Dalinar would not be there to save and believe in him. For someone who likes to be the lone savior, I think this is a huge step for him to accept help from others. In regards to the Tien scene, I feel that was a wound that needed healing. Seeing Tien, and finding the truth that he chose to be on that battlefield to help others, was needed for Kaladin to let go of his own guilt. It was a nice parallel to Maya’s “WE CHOSE” moment. It changes the entire context of the situation so healing can begin. It was also similar to Evi saying “I forgive you” to Dalinar in Oathbringer. It helped him let go of the guilt enough to say his oath. I think the lack of these scenes is due to the structure of this book. For Windrunner training and organization sequences: we saw Kaladin begin this in Oathbringer Part 2, but the majority of it took place in the one year time gap between OB and ROW. We missed a lot during the gap from everyone’s story, and I’m not sure how those could have been included rather than small references in passing in the present day story. I think it would be jarring to add those scenes in ROW, unless they were done as flashbacks. For the therapy work, I agree that it would be awesome to see more of that, and I believe we will get it in future books based on Kaladin’s talk with Dalinar at the end of the book. However, the structure of Rhythm of War didn’t allow much time for it. The Fused attacked shortly after he set up the therapy groups, and it wouldn’t make much plot sense to see it continue while the tower is occupied and Kaladin is a fugitive radiant. I do hope the next book gives more time with this storyline because I love this development! In regards to Kaladin inspiring others, I'll refer to the quote I listed above from Noril. I absolutely loved that scene. Due to the nature of the invasion, Kaladin can't do his work openly yet he still inspires the people from behind the scenes. They know he is there and they have faith in him. The shash glyphs on everyones foreheads say so much. It actually made me tear up to read that the brands that have plagued Kaladin for so long, having been a symbol of his darkest time, have come to symbolize hope for the people he protects. For me, that is way more powerful than seeing him personally giving orders or speeches to people. Yikes, that got long!

I can see this perspective, though think it is appropriate for him to be "reactive" due to the nature of his duties as a soldier, bodyguard, a radiant, and healer. All of these are service professions which requires him to be available to those in need, and to be on call to respond to whatever threats and emergencies arise. His desire to help people is a defining characteristic for him and I think it would be out of character for him to take solitary actions that are not in response to helping others as needed. Even so, he still takes his own initiative within the scope of his duties. As head of Bridge Four, the Kholin guard, Windrunner, he set up the structure and training of the organizations. I believe it was Leshwi who commented on how his work with the Windrunenrs is an extraordinary achievement without the help of heralds of radiants with prior knowledge and experience. There is also the funny comment from Adolin about Kaladin and the Kholinar Wall Guard in Oathbringer: “He’s probably their leader now or something. Storming bridgeboy.” In his short time as a surgeon, he took the initiative to set up the group therapy sessions to help the mental patients. Once the tower was attacked his actions were in response to the needs of Teft, Navani, the Sibling, and the whole of Urithiru. All of these actions are driven by his desire to help and protect as many people as possible, which is totally appropriate for his character type. All that said, I can see that some people might prefer characters who have goals and actions driven by their own needs and desires, rather than responding to the needs of others. Service professions aren't always glamorous or exciting to read about, although Kaladin does like to "grandstand" at times as Teft pointed out, which can make his actions entertaining to read, if you like that sort of thing.

I have a strong affinity to Kaladin and am emotionally invested in his journey. My sincere hope for him has always been to find a sense of peace and fulfillment in his life. It was a bumpy ride getting there, but I feel like he has finally reached that point at the end of this book. It is as if some tension that has been building for four books has finally been released, for him and for me as a reader who cares about him. I don’t expect it to be all puppies and rainbows for the remainder of the series, but at least there is some ground of stability from which to move forward and develop in new ways. Some specific things I enjoyed about his progression this book: Kaladin and Syl: One of my favorite developments is how Syl evolved as a character alongside Kaladin. Her thoughts, feelings and actions are becoming so human. I love how she tries to understand and support him no matter what he is going through. And conversely, he does the same for her. One of the most striking moments is when he said the fourth ideal. She clung to him as they fell together from the tower, shaking because she couldn’t remember the words. But he knew them, and said them. It was such a reversal from the previous ideals, where he was uncertain and she encouraged and helped him say the words. Also, the scene at the end with them talking about Teft’s loss was so lovely. They seem to have a true partnership at this point. Mental Health: It is funny that we as readers have been lamenting for years that Roshar needs some advancements in the field of mental health in order to help our heroes deal with their issues. Alongside that, it has been a horror to see how Taln, child Jasnah, and others with mental issues are locked away in dark rooms alone and forgotten. I cheered in joy in chapter 25 when Kaladin began working to change all of this. It is such a perfect direction for him… he has the empathy and experience to understand what these folks are going through, and the means and knowledge to help them. I cannot wait to see where he takes this. The first step is working with Ishar, and I suspect Kaladin will help him and the other heralds to overcome their madness. Fourth Ideal: the thing I loved most about this scene is that, while Kaladin had the actual task of speaking and meaning the ideal, he had help getting there. It was a group effort that included Dalinar, Stormfather, Syl, Tien, and Teft. They were all there with him, supporting him by giving him the time, space, and insight to make this (literal) leap. Up until this point, one of Kal’s problems has been that he tries to do it all himself, does not accept help. At the end of Oathbringer, Syl told him he needed to let other help him for a change, but we see throughout ROW that he has not yet accepted that help from others. Yet in this scene he lets go, and the relationships he has nurtured and developed with others give him the strength he needs to say the words. And can we take a moment to appreciate the slave brands are gone? Relationship with Lirin: this was rough, and there is still a ways to go, but I feel they made a good start in repairing their relationship with this simple line: "Come on. We need to protect the people in that tower. You in your way. Me in mine.” Throughout this book Kaladin was trying to change himself to fit the image his father wanted for him, and when he couldn’t do that, Kaladin took it as a personal failure. Here, he is finally accepting that it is okay for them to have different paths. I hope Lirin can do the same. I feel he took the first steps by having the shash glyph painted on his forehead. Interactions with Wit: I enjoy their interactions and The Dog and the Dragon story was one of my favorite chapters of the book. It is interesting to note that Wit has told Kaladin a story shortly before his second, third, and fourth ideals. The next time he gets a story I will be looking for the fifth ideal to follow soon after. One thing I am curious about is how Wit projected into the Odium vision. I feel he would need some sort of Connection with Kaladin to sense that he was trapped in the vision and come to him there. I also find the flute curious. Why would Wit give him such an important artifact, and will it have any significance going forward? This book strongly focuses on rhythms and music, so I wonder if it will play a role in some way related to the rhythms of Roshar. Personally would love for Kaladin to learn to play it. Music therapy is a valuable form of psychotherapy. Friendships: I continue to enjoy Kaladin and Adolin’s bromance. I love reading about close friendships between people who care for and respect each other and I feel these two fit in this category. Kaladin trusts Adolin enough to talk about things he hasn't told anyone else. I am glad that Kal has a friend to talk to who is outside his chain of command and who cares about his well being. I also enjoyed Kaladin's interactions with Teft, Rlain, Dabbid, Leshwi, and Zahel in this book. I hope to see Kaladin and Rlain stay in contact with Leshwi and Venli going forward. There is so much more to talk about including the interactions with Moash, the Odium visions, and the glowing yellow eyes, working with Navani and the Sibling, the fight scenes with Lezian, etc, but this has gotten long enough for one topic. How do others feel about Kaladin’s arc in this book? Where do you think he will go from here? I have seen some posters saying they are disappointed in his progression. In what way are you disappointed, and what outcome would you have preferred for him?

This detail is so strange to me. It appears to have happened as he exited the tower. Perhaps it was caused by towerlight, but why would that burn his eyelids? Is the rest of him burned or only his eyes? I'm leaning towards it being something internal/cognitive, rather than external/physical. Or how about this crackpot idea: I wonder how the timeline of this lines up with Taravangian killing Rayse (it is the same day). Perhaps Moash was connected to Rayse in a way that caused him to be affected by the death. Connection is a big theme in this book and Moash/Vyre seemed to be uniquely Connected to Odium. Even the Fused were confused by his place among them.

If I had to ship Kaladin with anyone at this point it would be Cord. Though as of the end of this book he seems to be doing okay on his own, with Syl as best friend and companion. It would be kind of funny to see Adolin continue to tease him about being Alethkar's most eligible bachelor, while Kal remains totally oblivious to the ladies lined up outside his door.

I really enjoyed this book. I didn’t notice many of the issues people are pointing out. I appreciate good character development and wordbuilding, and this book had lots of those. I couldn’t be more pleased with Kaladin/Syl, Navani, Shallan, and Rlain's arcs. Even Venli won me over in the end (that scene with her mom, wow), though I would have liked more development for her. She frustrated me a bit with her unwillingness to tell anyone about her radiancy, but of course Kaladin and Shallan had that same issue in the first two books. I also would have enjoyed flashbacks for more Listeners and Singers, maybe even some of the Fused. A Raboniel or Leshwi flashback would be awesome. If I recall correctly, at the end of Oathbringer Hoid mentioned dancing with Leshwi in the distant past. A few questions I haven’t seen discussed: How did Moash end up blind at the end? He seemed to run out of the tower with no problem, then he lands in a snow bank and realizes he is blind. I went back and read it three times and can’t figure out what happened. Maybe the towerlight did something to him? How did Wit project into an Odium vision? It was similar to when Odium projected into one of Dalinar’s visions, but I’m not sure by what mechanism Wit would be able to do that, all while erecting a bubble of protection around him and Kaladin which prevents Odium from noticing. Also, did those visions take place on Braize? Did Szeth violate his oath to Dalinar by stabbing Taravangian? He swore to follow the Dalinar’s will, and Dalinar clearly did not want Taravangian dead.

Perhaps it is the formation of shardplate, rather than the fourth ideal specifically. The description happens in chapter 110, but the whole sequence leading up to it spans across chapters 105-110 as noted in the newsletter. It's a pretty cool visual: "With his hand outstretched, Kaladin watched as a windspren slammed into it and flashed, outlining his hand with a glowing transparent gauntlet. A dozen others slammed into him, joyful, exultant. Lines of light exploded around him as the spren transformed—being pulled into this realm and choosing to Connect to him....."

Congrats everyone one one million posts! I know I've only read a small portion of those but sometimes it feels like I've read all million posts when I get sucked into the vortex of theories and analysis. I joined after binge reading all of the published Cosmere books in 2016, and being blown away by the complexity of the universe in these stories. I tend to come and go on the forum as books are released and love the excitement that takes place around new releases. I appreciate how insightful and passionate everyone here is, and am happy to be a part of it.