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Extesian last won the day on May 26

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About Extesian

  • Birthday 06/04/1980

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  1. Woah @Pagerunner you just drew my attention to TWG, which I've heard of before but didn't really know. I don't know how broad or useful it is but seems like it'll have great historical WoBs and be of historical Brandon interest. Cheers! Oh and good analysis, it's been a while since I read Liar but I'd forgotten a couple of those points.
  2. It's (the worst"
  3. Not that I know of Sunbird It doesn't affect anything but it's a nice little shout-out to the Cosmere fans.
  4. Yep all investiture. The problem is Nightblood also eats any investiture. And a cute little larkin ain't gonna win am eating-each-other competition against one of the most invested things in the Cosmere
  5. Agreed. I think I'm sold on the most likely thing being that they're both older and Taravangian was wrong about when the Rattles started. Unless we hear evidence that the Thrill is relatively recent I think that's my new head-canon.
  6. Thanks Djarskublar, you're completely right about unsealed metal minds, I didn't think of that at all. And yep I'm inclined to agree with the implications, that person would probably become a savant. I guess the point is that yeah that's a use of an end-neutral system that would cause it but that person is effectively getting the power from another source. Not in the true sense but that person doesn't have to balance their tapping worth storing. My mistake was saying flat out that you can't do it with an end-neutral system, so I definitely accept that qualification. For awakening, I agree with your threshold point and my view is basically what you and Calderis have said. There just isn't sufficient constant flow of investiture unless it's the extreme. With hemalurgy I certainly don't question the consequences to the soul and that it could have savantish implications. Just that it doesn't have to necessarily. It's more about new channels than expanding existing or new ones. But of course it could result in a similar effect. Above all with this I don't think savant is a near term and isn't a true threshold thing. It's a spectrum and one that is about the overuse of investiture in a way that changes your soul to let you access more, but basically makes your soul kind of dependent on it. That can be done in many ways. But systems that let you directly draw on a large source of investiture at high rates are the most likely to cause a savant.
  7. It's a reference to the extra epilogue in 10th anniversary Elantris edition, where Hoid (spoiler)
  8. I've done a full search for superstition and the best I can think of is that Voidbringers were regarded as superstition, perhaps she had an idea all the way back then that they existed. But that's highly tenuous and I don't think the timing or context fits. Glyphwards are superstitious but she knows that. So I suspect it's simply something in get past experience that we haven't heard yet. This isn't a very helpful post but there's certainly nothing searchable in the books to give a clue. You do have me interested though.
  9. I wonder what would happen if Lift ate an awakened baked good.
  10. I hope this isn't too obscure
  11. Delivered right to your Dor
  12. Hmm I'll have to agree to disagree on this, not that I'm right, but that it's just a question of semantics. A ferring has one set of specific 'channels' to use Preservation's investiture in a specific way. The more they use it, the wider that channel gets. I believe hemalurgy, in grafting on a piece of sDNA, is simply adding an additional channel that investiture can flow through, with a different end effect (or 'nozzle' as Brandon has described it), a channel which is of normal width. Using either channel (either metal) will expand that channel, but adding another channel won't expand the first one. My realmatics could be wrong but I do believe it's beyond semantics. Sorry I should've clarified the compounding situation. Compounding will clearly cause savantism but that's because compounding is not end-neutral. Feruchemy is, but compounding takes a feruchemical attribute (nozzle) and powers it with end-positive system. I was only saying, for the reason you said, that I dont' believe you can have a ferring savant because you can't flush through enough investiture to meaningfully widen the channels as you have to take time storing it yourself. You can have large investiture transfer for a tiny amount of time, or small for a large amount, but I believe a savant needs both. You are right about Breath being something you can get from someone else, which changes the equation. But my problem is this. With alomancy, say, you're actually expending all that investiture and returning it to the system. It's kinetic investiture (I believe - I've never been great on that terminology). But with Breath, even if you have 50,000 Breaths, and you make 50,000 lifeless, you're not actually constantly channelling that investiture. You're channeling it once, to make the awakened object, then the investiture is in that object, bringing it to life. There is no constant drawdown of investiture that's constantly flowing through you, expanding your investiture channels. You give the command, send out the Breath, and that's it. You then claim it back, and that's it. So unless you're literally constantly creating awakened objects and reclaiming your Breath, again and again, with the way I picture the realmatics of this, it won't be expanding your investiture channels in the same way alomancy or surgebinding is. So I could be convinced that it's possible to have savants in a completely end-neutral system, but they're the reasons I don't believe even someone chock full of Breaths becomes a savant. Very effective at the cognitive side of giving Commands, but not in the sense of investiture forcing its way through your spirit-web and changing it. Edit - to add a couple of things. Your analysis of the heightenings is good. You may have a point, I've seen the savantism thing as one of kinetic investiture solely, that innate investiture doesn't determine it. Even with my Elantris theory this was the case, that innate investiture gives you the channels but you need huge kinetic investiture to widen them. But the heightenings are an interesting matter and I dont' have a counter-argument for that. I'll have to think on it, it's a good point. Also, I have an additional argument for why Breath requires cracks. A Nalthian with Breath is more invested than a normal Cosmere human. A Nalthian that has had their Breath taken away, a Drab, is less invested than a normal Cosmere human. So it makes sense to me that Endowment changed people to be slightly less than human, that is the crack, and the Breath they're given at conception fills that. I have a way to determine that for sure though. Simply ask if a normal Cosmere human, with no innate investiture, is given a Breath, and then has that Breath taken away - would they then be a Drab? If not, then it must be that giving acquiring Breath neither requires nor creates a crack in the spirit web, and you're right that the WoB is wrong. If they would become a Drab, then clearly the act of a Breath imprinting on you creates that needed crack. There may be a flaw in that I haven't thought of, but it's an idea.
  13. Firstly i agree with the idea of a savant spectrum. I don't believe there's a threshold for savantism where before that you're normal and after you're broken. It's a process. Secondly, perhaps I've missed something obvious, but I think there's one very important difference with Breath and it has nothing to do with the cracks in your spiritweb which this WoB indicates are universally necessary for magic systems. It's the fact Breath is end-neutral. I don't believe you can become a savant of an end-neutral system. Savantism, in my mind, is continuing use of investiture widening your investiture channels to let more investiture through and your spirit web consequently changes. But surely that is an effect of an end-positive system where you're drawing investiture externally. Breath, like feruchemy, uses your own internal investiture. So i see no reason however much you use it, that it would widen those channels. Thirdly I don't believe hemalurgy makes you a savant. It staples on a piece of sDNA to your own sDNA. It doesn't widen the channels, it oopens up new ones.
  14. These are good points about the difference between ancient fabrials and modern. I've been troubled for a while about that and it firms up (thoughnowhere near decisively) two ideas in my mind. One - ancient fabrials, as a 'different' magic system, are of Adonalsium, and Akinah is related to Adonalsium, as are the Aimians. Two - ancient fabrials are purely of Cultivation. I favor the first in terms of the Aimiajs and the location. The second in terms of magic systems. But I may have missed something fundamental about either option.
  15. Oh how embarrassing I didn't realize they were separate threads, I've posted on both thinking it was the same conversation. Given all that yeah maybe the most likely is that they were the same time but both old and Taravangian was wrong (and Brandon never corrected a false assumption they were both when Gavilar went to the Shattered Plains).