lastofus

You're right, I misread it the first time. But because of the dialogue: Then you..., I am 90 percent sure that she wanted to tell him his new role, but Rock didn't want her to say it. If the Chief is dead and other possible candidates are dead too, and then you... ! are chief now.

OK, my first topic here, I hope I do it right. I had a new theory about the whole Horneater businesses. Don't you guys find it odd that the "Chief" wanted to acquire shards? We don't know if it's the first brother, first senior cousin, or something like that who can be the chieftain. But why the hell chieftain's try to duel with Shardbearers? They have no experience in dueling properly, let alone facing a Shardbearer. I think something is missing here. The roles of first and second brother is obtaining food, the third brother is to learn a craft (cooking for example). The servants of the chieftain is his family, we don't know how big his family was. It doesn't make any sense that the older brothers had weapons "and they raised them in vengeance". Following the conversation, it's safe to assume that her wife wanted to know who is chief now. I only think of three reasons: The ascension to chieftain is in reverse in the peak. The younger brother is chief, he has to have the ability to protect the village. So Rock actually lost his younger brothers, and if Rock himself dies, the second brother is chief. The ascension to chieftain depends on the roles, first warriors, then craftsmen, then gatherers. The difference with the first one is that the Oldest warrior is chief, not the youngest one. Chief is exempt from the normal roles. If the first brother becomes chief, he cannot do the job that was assigned to him. Meaning that the 2nd and 3rd brother are now gatherers and the 4th one (Rock) is the craftsman. So the chief has to learn how to fight, how else could he protect the village, and challenge a Shardbearer? It also means that the names spoken by Rock were all in line to be chief, (that's why they picked weapons in vengeance) so in truth, Rock lost 3 chiefs that day. Finally, I think that his Oath (or role) didn't count anymore. He was just deluding himself and bridge four. He CAN fight and should do so, but was a coward and decided to continue his cooking. He hasn't broken his previous oaths, instead he didn't want to accept his new oath (role) of protecting his family. (He had named Kaladin and bridge four his family). What he did, killing Amaram with Shard bow, was actually an act of accepting his new role. He became chief before being captured and he knew that, but instead he didn't want to fight. So he has some explaining to do, that was why he was in a corner thinking. Bonus: I really hope Rock becomes a Stonewarden, he probably think he doesn't belong to bridge 4 anymore. what a twist! Bonus2: A shardbearer horneater chief? He is the king of the peaks now.

One third of the book was already published on Tor.com. I got the book at 9:30 AM and finished it at around 9 PM

Ok I cannot read the whole topic again to see if it was mentioned. But did anyone notice Dalinar recognizing Szeth as a Skybreaker? Did he sense Venli or Rysn? Odium cannot face Dalinar again, if he does, he have to name a champion, he's now bound by that. I really want to see him try storm-calling Venli again.

@Michael Portz I have some trouble finding the proper words as English isn't my native tongue, so I probably would do a bad job. Let's see if I can show my reasons. Dalinar had a vision about Nohadon in which Nohadon was a surgebinder and actually talked to Dalinar in the end. It can mean 2 things: Either it's something that all Bondsmiths experience. The thing only related to Bondsmiths that WoR (in-book) referred to. (Probably not. It's too generic). Somehow, Dalinar's troubled mind created that experience (out of the book) to help him understand his path. I think it's the second one. Which the message is that "if a man fall and don't rise again, his journey is at his end (Oathbringer preface)", which again means that "the most important step in your journey is always the next one", and so the oath, "If I must fall, I will rise each time a better man.", meaning that I swear to continue the journey no matter how many times I fall, the only thing that matters is that I will learn from my mistakes. Is it not enough for an Oath? I don't know where, but I remember something like "You cannot bypass the Oaths". So like for example, if you're a Windrunner, you have to first swear to protect everyone, then swear that you don't distinguish between who you should be protecting. So, either Dalinar swore all the previous Oaths, or the final one cannot be "I am Unity". And of course there's a chance that Bondsmiths only have 3 or 4 Oaths to say. So what do you choose? As I've said previously, I think Dalinar spoke at least 2 Oaths, possibly 3. That mad Herald is actually swore the 5th himself. Even if he doesn't trust his mind to be the law, he will accept the choice he will eventually make.

Later In Oathbringer, there are some thoughts about Shin invasions. I could be wrong, or the written history is different from what actually happened. BUT I think that Shin tried once to conquer Roshar and were defeated. So they're not as docile as they seem to be. Of course, there's a possibility that Shin Invasions is actually the first attack from humankind on the Dawnsingers. Anyway, I think one of the Siblings that are on par with Stormfather is the spren of Stone. And Shin people consider both Stormlight and Stone to be holy. From all the various human races that came to Roshar, something happened to have only Shin stay in the place right? Are they a new race? What made that change? That's the real question for me.

That depends, Szeth will have to go to Shinovar. That's the whole point of having flashbacks. That's why we saw so little from Szeth in this book and only at the end. I think Brandon wanted to show us Szeth and then let him swear the 3rd Ideal to Dalinar (meaning we saw his flashbacks instead of Dalinar), but then decided against it. So it all depends on whether Dalinar wants his bodyguard, and a trainer in all surges OR wants the oathgate in Shinovar unlocked. At the same time, Venli needs to break from Odium and join Dalinar.

We see through the whole book that Stormfather became more aware, his thoughts weren't as primitive (black and white) as before. At the same time, Dalinar was questioning everything. Nightwatcher didn't offer a boon/curse to Dalinar, it was Cultivation herself, and she made it so that Dalinar could remember it later. He even wondered why Cultivation wanted the memories return. When he broke free from the Thrill, he understood why. He could've ended his journey anytime he wanted, but he wouldn't be the person he is now if he did. Everyone that could see the future (Cultivation, Odium, AND Renarin) knew that Dalinar will fall. And none predicted that he could ascend. Only Taravangian, predicted this in diagram (he wrote something for his future self about Dalinar and the champion). Anyway, I think that Dalinar both said the Words and had the intent. Plus, if you remember, Szeth didn't need anytime to say the 3rd Ideal. And Nale thought he could progress to 3 right away.

Talenelat'Elin, my favorite character. He reminds me of Sir Arthur Dayne, Sword of the Morning from ASoIF, the whole information about them can barely fill a page, nevertheless it feels enough. Dalinar Kholin, the hypocrite, Blackthorn, Animal, Highking, He didn't kill a child even in bloodlust. I was as happy as Evi when I read it. Kaladin, not enough, I really liked the way he forced the captain on Honor's Path, to free Syl, even his failure to say the words was masterfully done. Jasnah, the Radiant! She's the only one with absolute control over her surges. I really don't like the wordplay from Alethi women but I can put them aside and only look at the bright side. Shallan, the same thing as Jasnah, her insults sounds forced and artificial. But I liked everything else. I really loved Kholinar's scene, and Veil coming back to earth. Adolin, really who can hate this guy? I kinda tried to hate him in the beginning of WoR. I loved his talks with his deadeye.. Maya. It was so beautiful. Venli, I loved that our traitor wasn't Eshonai. Venli makes more sense, and everything about her was great. To be honest, the only one that I hated was Moash, even Taravangian makes sense. Moash doesn't. He is so pitiful.

Hmm, I thought it was a given that the plate needs Stormlight to function. And you can kill a spren with shardblade (severing their spiritual connection or some other nonsense like this), but stormlight can heal those connection. Also, they need to feed Stormlight to "dead" plates to regrow them or make them functional again. I haven't seen Jasnah shoving people from Adolin's vision. Can you point me to where you saw it? And I didn't see any Radiant wearing Shardplates in the fight. Am I missing something?

Hmm, you're probably right, but I still think these are Oaths. He, at least, swore 2 Oaths. You cannot have my pain. I will take responsibility for what I have done. If I must fall, I will rise each time a better man. I am Unity. Number 2 is probably to supplement the first one, so it probably isn't an Oath. But from everything we saw before, (from the windsprens circling around Kaladin whenever he was on the verge of swearing the Fourth Ideal), you can show off something (like thrusting his arms ... ) before saying the words. So I think being Unity is an Oath.

I suspected that Dalinar at least swore 2 oaths at the same time. But now, there's a chance that he spoke 3. Depending on the number of oaths needed to speak, he may have done all of them. He actually ascended, and Stormfather was so surprised. What's more? Getting out of the mortal body? I don't think so.

I am doing a re-read (first-listen?) with the audio book. It helps with most of the names that I couldn't pronounce, as I have read so fast that I just had the shape of them in mind. I have no comment on your likes, I agree with everything you said. I absolutely hated Moash's chapters. But I don't think he'll be Odium's champion. I am with you on this, It's like Kaladin but from the other direction. Can he see what is wrong with his ideas or not, I don't know. For number 4, It says that each order would see a surge in their numbers on desolations. Plus it's a lot easier now that they know what to look for. Kaladin had to figure it out all by himself, but Lopen told them to the the-one-handed-wanna-be-radiant Taylen right away. Anyway did you guys see that the Skybreakers gave a shardblade to Heralan? He had became a squire of Skybreakers according to Mraize's letter, and he wasn't in any other secret order. So the only one who could have given the shards to Heralan were the Skybreakers. They think the same as Pattern. Syl hates everyone with shards, but Pattern and Skybreakers don't think so.

No, it has to be Stonewards. They are stubborn as storm. Talenelat always chose the worst place to fight, wining them against all odds and in most cases die in the process. Plus we already saw the second ideal of Skybreakers:

I read it completely different. He already saw it, he already has done it. He killed Heralan to protect Amaram, killed Parshendi to protect Dalinar and his soldiers, killed/or tried to kill Szeth to save bridge 4 and Dalinar. He is the watcher at the rim. What he saw was more about 2 groups of people who had no business fighting (A listener's group barely learning to fight overwhelming a group of guards who didn't want to fight but had to). In an ideal world he would've stopped both. So no, Lirin was not right. I am now more toward the idea that the fourth ideal is about "not protecting a specific target". What happens when you have 2 groups with conflicting interest that you want to protect, you have to take a side. I've no idea what the actual word will be. And the 5th.. as I have said I don't support your theory. I think the 5th (or at least the final one) in both cases are these: Skybreakers: I make the law. I don't question the choice I made later. Windrunners: I define the right. I don't question the choice I made later. Haven't read Wheel of Time, but this could really be the case.