• Announcements

    • Chaos

      Oathbringer Spoiler Policy   11/13/2017

      Oathbringer is out! Let's make our policy on spoilers clear! 1. You must preface topics with Oathbringer spoilers with the prefix [OB] in the front 2. You are only allowed to post spoilers and spoiler topics in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board, Cosmere Theories, and some select work-related forums. 3. For posts in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board you do not need to use spoiler tags inside a topic marked [OB]. For Cosmere Theories, you also do not need to put spoiler tags inside your topic if the topic has [OB] in the title. However, for Cosmere Theories, if you are adding Oathbringer stuff to an old theory without the [OB] tag, those must go in spoiler tags and you must make it obvious outside the spoiler tag that the spoiler is regarding Oathbringer content. 4. For select things that do require talking about OB spoilers, in Events, Coppermind, and Arcanum forums, those are allowed but keep OB spoilers in spoiler tags 5. Avoid and minimize spoilers in topic titles--even though those two boards will not appear in the Recent Topics ticker, topic titles still appear in Recent Activity and the forum home.  6. You aren't allowed to post Oathbringer spoilers in places other than listed, even with spoiler tags.  It will be nine months and then the Oathbringer board will be re-merged with the Stormlight board and you will not need to tag these spoilers. If you'd like to move something in the Stormlight Archive board to the Oathbringer board, to update it with new Oathbringer information, Report the post and we will happily move it to the Oathbringer spoiler board. Part-by-part Reactions Though the Oathbringer Spoiler Board will be very spoilery, very fast (maybe don't come there until you've read the book, as people do have copies that bookstores sold early), you'll have these five topics for reactions if you want to nerd out: Part 1 Reactions
      Part 2 Reactions
      Part 3 Reactions
      Part 4 Reactions
      Full Book Reactions For parts 1-4, they will not include the interludes immediately following it. On Discord All Oathbringer spoilers on Discord will be exclusively in the #oathbringer_spoilers channel for the nine month spoiler period and nowhere else.


Global Moderators
  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Jofwu last won the day on May 16

Jofwu had the most liked content!

Community Reputation

801 Seer

1 Follower

Profile Information

  • Gender
  • Location
    SC, United States
  • Interests
    The Cosmere, Wheel of Time, The Expanse, Kerbal Space Program, Mass Effect, Civilization, Zelda, Elder Scrolls, space, physics, math, soccer

Recent Profile Visitors

2,063 profile views
  1. Yeah! I was wondering about that possibility. A problem I see with it is that these actions often need Stormlight to fuel the action. Soulcasting, for example, requires giving Stormlight to the thing you are changing. A spren can't just do that for you at no cost and then take your "money". But perhaps they are taking their cut off the top. Not convinced this is (always) what's going on. But it's an interesting and plausible concept, I think. At least in some cases.
  2. I can only speculate, honestly. We just don't know enough I think. Windspren would probably fit. In general, I mean--not for soulcasters. You're right about Sibling, wasn't thinking! Though ultimately my thoughts are that if we have ANY exception cases then it's points in favor of the idea that the spren can't be neatly categorized.
  3. First of all, I think you mean "sapient" here? Important difference. Also, three obvious answers are the Oathgates, some Unmade, and probably the Sibling. Maybe these are just very anomalous. And apparently some people think the Oathgates are Elsecaller/Willshaper spren. But I figure it's worth pointing out. More generally, I'm not sure I like the assumption that there's no room for other types of sapient spren which we just haven't heard about yet. I mean, we haven't even (maybe) gotten a good glimpse at all of the KR spren. In any case, I don't have a problem with non-sapient spren having access to Surges. Windspren certainly seem to. And I think it goes too far to assume that they are "trapped" with the fabrial. The example given for the Soulcaster, at least, didn't feel that way to me. Ah, I totally forgot to say one other thing relevant to this. My two biggest problems with the dead spren Plate idea are: 1. I don't quite see how it would become attached to the KR oaths. Feels to me like these spren would just be released back to normal. Not be trapped in some other form. Plate that works this way doesn't feel as intimately connected as the Blade does. 2. And we know there's a very specific reason that KR spren become Blades when they die. They are imitations of Honorblades. I don't see great logic for why the lesser spren would be locked into a particular form in the same way when they die.
  4. I don't have a problem scratching Shardplate from the list, but I'm still leaning in it's favor. "collective assembly of lesser spren" -- I'm not convinced by the evidence. It's compelling, but not conclusive to me. And I don't think these two theories are mutually exclusive. "naturally a permanent entity", "spren are dead" -- Yeah, it could be the same as Shardblades in the way they could be summoned. The dead blades naturally remained physical originally, so you can argue Shardplate is the same. Perhaps it doesn't scream because the spren aren't/weren't sapient. But at the same time this feels like a lot of assumptions to me. Unfortunately we don't have many descriptions of "living" Shardplate so that we can draw comparisons. The only two differences we know, off the top of my head, are that it glows with light/glyphs and that sections of it can appear/disappear at will. I don't think either of these necessarily suggests that it isn't a fabrial. Dalinar hasn't mentioned a lack of gemstones in the armor, so I think we should assume it had those. But if it isn't a fabrial then why? Also, a hole I see in the simple cousin-spren theory is the fact that Plate does MORE than act as a mere barrier. It strengthens. It grips things well. It absorbs stormform lightning. I don't quite see how these can be explained without handwaving. A fabrial on the other hand? Makes perfect sense that it could have complex capabilities. In the end, it feels more to me like a low-functioning "sleeping" fabrial than a dead Shardblade.
  5. Theory: Ancient fabrials operate with the help of a willing, sentient spren. "Modern fabrials" are Stormlight-powered mechanisms that make use of a spren trapped in a gemstone. All of the details aren't entirely clear. We know the type of gem and spen matter. Some of them, at least, require you to press metal against the gem. Mysterious as it may be to us, the scholars of Roshar have it pretty well figured out. And yet they are totally stumped by so-called "ancient fabrials". We've seen several ancient devices with all kinds of specific and powerful uses. Devices that use Stormlight like a fabrial... And yet they don't require a trapped spren, and the means to create more of them are unknown. Soulcasters. Shardplate. Oathgates. So what's the deal? I think that they DO use spren. Just in a very different way. I don't think I've seen anybody talking about this. Honestly, I didn't give it much attention myself until I was recently reminded about something I had noticed in Kaza's interlude when Brandon read it earlier this year. If you look closely, a spren seems to be present when she uses her Soulcaster. When we put this together with everything else we saw in Oathbringer... I think the solution of how ancient fabrials becomes clear. I'm going to go through all of the so-called ancient fabrials that we know of and see what observations we can make. Soulcasters Again, the big revelation here is from Kaza's interlude: See that mention of "another will reinforcing her own"? I think it's a spren. Notably, the spren is "attracted by her request for aid". Recall that trapping spren for modern fabrials requires you to attract the spren: Interesting that this spren is also "attracted". But it isn't a slave. It came willingly, to help. It's unclear whether this particular spren is "attached" to Kaza's soulcaster, or whether it was simply a spren that happened to be nearby. You could interpret this different ways. Did a particular spren, or a particular group of spren, agree to be bound to the soulcaster? Or to come at the call of a Soulcaster? Perhaps it's not an agreement binding them at all, but rather their nature. They hear a Soulcaster's "request for aid" and just naturally want to join in. What kind of spren could this be? I'm skeptical that it's a Knight Spren, though that's a possibility. I'm more inclined to think that it is some spren related Soulcasting OR some spren related to the essence of smoke (which Kaza's device is attuned to). And on that note, it's also interesting that we see there are different "levels" of Soulcasters--some being more limited than others. This theory perfectly explains why in one of two ways. (1) Perhaps the more powerful Soulcasters are linked to multiple spren, each granting different types of Soulcasting. (2) Or perhaps the more powerful Soulcasters are linked to more powerful spren--one that is able to do more than the spren of lesser Soulcasters. Oathgates Okay, that's a nice theory for Soulcasters, but is there anything to back this up? Let me introduce you to these guys. We now know that the Oathgates each make use of two strange and powerful spren. Exactly what they do is hard to say, but they are obviously part of the device's functionality. The fact that the device is a fabrial is also obvious--Shallan makes the observation when they first discovered the Oathgate in Narak. You charge it with Stormlight, point it the way you want to go, and activate it. The Surgebinder's own spren, of course, isn't what makes the thing work. It's more of a key perhaps? In any case, another example of an ancient fabrial that uses a spren to work. It's notable that (in this case) the spren seem to have made an agreement to guard/operate the thing. They follow specific rules and don't seem to leave their location in Shadesmar. Urithiru Our characters have begun to speculate that Urithiru itself is one GIANT fabrial. We know so little about it, so there's not much to say here... We DO know that it is mostly (but not entirely) non-functional. We can only speculate as to what it should be doing, but records left by former Radiants confirm the notion that it used to be MORE somehow. Plus there are the oddities like the massive gemstone pillar that won't be infused, the strata on the walls... It isn't fully broken of course. One record notes that the artificial air pressure hasn't failed, even if the "climate control" hasn't, and this apparently still true. What do we know about how Urithiru operated? About why it stopped working? One answer: the Sibling. A spren heavily connected to the tower city. A spren which many are speculating "IS" the city. It will be interesting to see what Jasnah finds when she investigates the city in Shadesmar... An oddity?.... Or an ancient (very powerful) fabrial, making use of an ancient (very powerful) spren? Shardplate I'm proposing that Shardplate is actually an ancient fabrial. The resemblance to other ancient fabrials is notable. It's an ancient, powerful device that is powered by Stormlight, it doesn't use a trapped spren, and it seems to make use of the Surges. The popular theory on Shardplate of course is that they are the "cousin-spren" of the Surgebinder's Nahel bond spren. This theory doesn't negate that possibility. In fact, it may fill in the gaps of why Shardplate is so different from Shardblades. Why does Shardplate behave so differently in modern times? Great question... For that, I'd have to turn attention back to Urithiru. We have that city as an example for what happens when an ancient fabrial has stopped working at full functionality. Perhaps the same is happening with Shardplate? Unfortunately our brief visions of "properly working" Shardplate are limited in what they reveal. How might it work? Presumably it's an actual, physical device of some kind (not, I would propose, the "dead bodies" of lesser spren) that happens to be tied to one or more spren. Perhaps it's tied to the cousin spren. Perhaps some other spren. Perhaps multiple. Perhaps one. It's hard to say. We haven't seen into Shadesmar in the presence of Shardplate, yet, so we don't know if this/those spren are present with the Plate. But then if the Plate is "asleep" like Urithiru and the Sibling it's hard to guess what we would expect to see. Conclusion I feel like I need a conclusion... I don't have proof for this theory, but the evidence is (I think) pretty strong and consistent. I left out Regrowth fabrials simply because we know almost nothing about them besides the fact that they exist. The inclusion of Shardplate is the most questionable piece, but I think it fits. As an aside, I suppose it's worth mentioning Jah Keved's half-shards. In Oathbringer Chapter 100, Taravangian suggests that the half-shards make use of "true spren". This is a controversial statement, but however you interpret his words, it suggests that these modern fabrials are more powerful because they make use of more powerful spren. That is, I think, in line what the concepts here. It suggests perhaps that the difference between a half-shard and Shardplate is a sentient spren which cooperates rather than a spren which is enslaved. There are a LOT of follow-up questions to be asked... How are they made? What's the nature of the "bond" (if one exists) between fabrial and spren? Is it the same for all or can it be different? What types of spren are used? I'll leave those conversations to the rest of you.
  6. Potentially related, given the way her memory blanks: WoR chapter 19 Edit: WoR chapter 39
  7. @Willow, yes WoBs are helpful too! Thanks! Edit: Remembered another: WoR chapter 13 More: WoR chapter 19 OB chapter 40
  8. I'm trying to track down any scraps I can about Shallan's past prior to her mother's death. This is what I've got so far. Can anyone think of others? WoR chapter 6 WoR chapter 45 WoR chapter 45 WoR chapter 60 WoR chapter 73 WoR chapter 88 OB chapter 25
  9. I've got an optimization question that's come up while working on my Stormlight timeline. I'm working in Google Sheets. I need to do a particular calculation a LOT, and with more books it will only happen more. I'd like to do it the most efficient way possible, so that the spreadsheet takes less time to load and process changes. Rosharan dates follow the format YYYY-MM-WW-D, with 5 days/week, 10 weeks/month, and 10 months/year. In my spreadsheet I'm using parenthesis, (YYYY-MM-WW-D), to indicate dates prior to 1-1-1-1. I need to be able to enter dates in this format, and I need to write calculation results in this format (as a string). But doing calculations is obviously best done with a single number in days. I use 1-1-1-1 as day 1. So if I need to do a calculation, like 1173-8-4-3 + 22 days, I convert the date string to number of days (1173*500 + 8*50 + 4*5 + 3), add 22, then convert back to a formatted strong. Spreadsheets aren't great for parsing strings as far as I'm aware, so the first step is a messy process of looking for each hyphen and pulling out the numbers between. And putting the results back is a garble of rounddown() and mod() functions. It works fine, but I'm curious if there's a better way to do this with a lookup table. Every possible date over thousands of years isn't logical, but I could do this for the 500 days in a year. List each date from 1-1-1 to 10-10-5 and pair them with 1 to 500. Now I would just have to parse the year, multiply it by 500, look for the rest of the date in my table, get the number of days, and add it. Going the other way is similar. I get the years like usual (rounddown x/500), then lookup mod(x, 500) in the table and mash the strings together. So... Is there any way to figure if this method should be faster before converting my entire spreadsheet and actually testing?
  10. Yep! There was a miscommunication for a while on that point, so that's not surprising.
  11. An official style guide is in the works--something sorely needed, especially now that anyone can help. The idea of using <> didn't come around until late in the process, and not everyone was on the same page on how to use them. Just explaining in case you come across inconsistencies. The purpose of <> is to indicate an uncertain transcription. Sometimes you might think you can make out useful words (good enough not to just use *inaudible* or *unintelligible* ), but you might not be confident you're hearing the right thing. Or maybe you do feel pretty confident, but the words don't seem to make sense together. If that's the case surround the uncertain words with <> to indicate that the transcription itself is questionable.
  12. Yeah, I'm not sure Glys makes for a good example here. A "voidspren" seems to be a distinct type of Odium spren, while Glys definitely seems to be an actual Truthwatcher spren (who has been corrupted).
  13. This is what I was told on Discord. Apparently I'm not making my point clearly. This is what I was addressing with "Can voidspren not become Shardblades because a Nahel-like bond is required?" So, yes, this may be the case. I think it would be an interesting observation. One to be followed with "why" and some interesting Realmatics. But even if the answer is as simple as that for spreblades, I'd think Odium has the knowledge of how to make other Invested, Shardblade-like weapons. Maybe not, but if that's the case... why?
  14. Just curious what people think about this. As far as I can remember, the Fused and the rest of Odium's forces fight with regular, mundane weapons. We also see them trying to get their hands on as many Shards as possible. While this could be a matter of simply disarming the humans, they seem to think those weapons would be very useful. Why don't Odium's forces have magical weapons of their own? Have we just not seen any yet, or are they limited from making them somehow? Can voidspren not become Shardblades because a Nahel-like bond is required? Or maybe that "ability" is something specifically related to Honor (+Cultivation?), which spren related to Odium are unable to do? If either of these were not the case, I'd think Odium would be commanding some of his Voidspren to serve as weapons. Maybe voidspren can't become Blades for whatever reason. Is there not some other way they could be making similar weapons? Invested weapons that are a more serious threat? Something to give Odium's forces an upper hand? Thoughts?
  15. Has anybody tried to apply the phonemes to the banner in Kaladin's chapter icon? (https://coppermind.net/wiki/File:Kaladin's_Chapters.svg) I can't make out anything useful. To answer the nonspoilery part of this... If you compare the voidbinding surges to the normal surges you can see they are the same glyphs, just with rotational symmetry rather than bilateral symmetry. I imagine it's a Vorin way of artistically indicating something perceived as "corrupted" or "twisted". @Harakeke have you looked at the surge glyphs at all? They're going to be Alethi, so words won't mean anything interesting to us probably. But you never know. They look very modern/clear to me, which makes me think the phonemes should mostly be present. If nothing else, it might help us identify any phonemes that are missing or styled differently than those on Nazh's list. Brilliant catch on Navani's ketek @Wonko the Sane! @Personification I don't see any of those in the Lightweaver glyph, but those are incredibly ancient so it's doubtful the phonograms are still apparent. (assuming it literally says "Lightweaver" in the first place)