Brightlord

I don't think anybody can get in. BackerKit is down as a whole.

My apologies. I clarified in an earlier reply that calling Wayne a Lightweaver was deliberately provocative; my actual suggestion was that his Resonance (in my suggestion, his accent imitations) are similar to the mnemonic devices gained as Resonance by Lightweavers (such as Shallan's photographic memory). I also did not mean to suggest that the powers had a direct correlation in the way they manifest, merely that there is a connection between the, as you say, Cosmere fundamentals. That is to say that, while Investiture manifests in various ways, it still manifests along a consistent spectrum, most obviously with Knights Radiant. If the fundamentals are indeed related, such as Gravitation on Roshar and Steel/Iron on Scadrial, then it has wider implications for how it might manifest on other Shardworlds or in different resonances. I would argue that the "to extremes" case applies to the Knights, too. Kaladin's Resonance with his Squires doesn't happen immediately. He has to swear the Third Ideal first. As Shallan was able to summon Pattern as a Shardblade as a child, she'd obviously hit that point as well before we see her.

I think you're misunderstanding, or at last deliberately avoiding the notion, but fine. If red and yellow are the powers, then orange is the resonance, as it's the secondary color created by mixing red and yellow. Happy?

Well, if Resonance is part of effects, then the fact that each pairing of Surges has its own Resonance implies that there are actually 20 magic effects in Roshar -- but I'm not taking this stance. I find it more likely that the pushes/pulls belong to the wave greater wavelength. i.e., Gravitation might be blue, but Iron and Steel are light and dark blue respectively. They're an example of how Investiture manifests differently on the different planets, but the overall concepts remain consistent. It's possible that both Brass and Zinc, for example, are related to why Windrunners get more squires (passive affinity for empathy). So yes, while they DO take on different forms, it's also notable that they take on different other forms that differ but are similar (metal vs stormlight, for example). All of these magics are manifested differently, but Investiture all originates with Adonalsium. By Law of Hard Magic, it'd make sense that they'd have something tying them together. As for "any combination," this is true, but it would still operate on the same spectrum and have a center point. It hasn't been confirmed, though, that all Twinborn have a Resonance. Further, some of these Resonances also manifest differently: Lightweavers, for example, each have mneumonic abilities, but not all of them take mental photos like Shallan does. The Resonance isn't necessarily so specific. I was calling Wayne a Lightweaver to be provocative, but I AM suggesting his disguises are related to a mneumonic ability. If Resonances ARE centered bands between abilities, and his fits the band I suggest above, then he'd have the same "center band" as a Lightweaver. Brandon specifically suggests that his ability to bend objects away from himself is related to, but not the totality of, his Resonance. And I believe (and I could be wrong; don't have time to supply sources, so I'll have to lay my neck out) it was said that Resonances may not have anything directly to do with the powers themselves, and are just an effect. As for "between" Surges, technically, green doesn't exist; it's a combination of blue and yellow. If the Surges resonate to create a third effect, it stands to reason that the band of that third effect is a middle point, a secondary spectrum of sorts. Shallan could be: illumination (the image) + transformation (knowledge of the thing). But I'm not sure specifically either. I should note that I agree this defense is splitting hairs and will preemptively concede that your stance has the stronger backing, but I will point to my above mention that Resonances are not necessarily directly tied into the powers that create them. In Wayne's cast, his powers are not Lightweaving powers, but his ability to imitate accents operates an awfully lot like a mneumonic device, doesn't it? And since his powers might straddle Lightweaving on the aforementioned spectrum, it might make sense that they resonate at the same midpoint: the mneumonic device. Which doesn't necessarily relate to his two powers, but still falls to the same spectrum. Also, thank you both for your criticisms and insights.

This may very well be a crackpot theory, or already suggested, but that probably goes without saying. Honestly, it's one of those thoughts I just had to express before I went to bed, so... here it goes. I've been thinking about Resonance a lot lately because I've been looking at the MAG Era 2 books and wondering how it might manifest for different Twinborn. Wax's Resonance is strongly suggested by Brandon to be his steel bubble, and he's confirmed that Wayne also has one. I think Wayne's is tangentially lightweaving. I'll explain. On Roshar, we can see that the Investiture operates as a spectrum, with every Order sharing an ability type with an adjacent order, and each one having a Resonance unique to their Order. Resonance has been described as acting like wavelengths colliding and, in this case, would be the two powers of the Order resonating into the third. We've been told that Hoid had an ability similar to Lightweaving, and on Sel, we see an Investiture that mimics Soulcasting. It stands to argue that these wavelengths, though they manifest differently, are constant at least to some degree across Shardworlds. If you look at Wax's abilities, Steelpushing is very clearly similar to a Lashing. I'd argue Gravitation. His other ability, to alter his weight, he uses very similar to Abrasion (though an argument could be made for Tension). Between Gravitation and Abrasion is Division, which could easily be what his Steel Bubble does as it pushes objects away. Arguably, if this is his Resonance, then it falls in the middle of the Spectrum between his two natural abilities. Like on the light spectrum, if blue and yellow are his abilities, green is his Resonance. Which brings me to Wayne. His abilities are healing and bending time (/space), which seem to correlate to Transportation and Progression. Between those are Transformation and Illusion, both of which could explain his inhuman skill at taking on disguises. I believe that this talent either is his Resonance or is directly related to his Resonance. If this is true, and the powers really do operate on a constant spectrum across the Shardworlds, what ramifications might that have on other magic systems? Adding for clarity (from my reply below): My apologies. I clarified in an earlier reply that calling Wayne a Lightweaver was deliberately provocative; my actual suggestion was that his Resonance (in my suggestion, his accent imitations) are similar to the mnemonic devices gained as Resonance by Lightweavers (such as Shallan's photographic memory). I also did not mean to suggest that the powers had a direct correlation in the way they manifest, merely that there is a connection between the, as you say, Cosmere fundamentals. That is to say that, while Investiture manifests in various ways, it still manifests along a consistent spectrum, most obviously with Knights Radiant. If the fundamentals are indeed related, such as Gravitation on Roshar and Steel/Iron on Scadrial, then it has wider implications for how it might manifest on other Shardworlds or in different resonances.

Perhaps, but I also think age accuracy is only likely to cause nerd rage in the kind of people on this forum. The general public is fairly sensitive to race-appropriate casting, but they don't really gripe about age. Even GoT, which aged plenty of characters, raised only a minor fuss. But you still want the character to seem like someone who would be under his father's wing, so he couldn't look too old. A 30 year-old man acting like Adolin would be incredibly uncomfortable to a modern audience. He acts with a good deal of maturity and governs his actions well. He isn't just some reckless youth, but he isn't the the warrior either.

This is kinda' the crux of the discussion, so I trimmed it down. Like I said, I don't especially care about Pine as Adolin (I was agreeing with OP, not choosing my own person. Were I to choose my own preference, I'd probably go with someone like Nicholas Hoult (and dye his hair) or Jonathan Groff. It does sound more like you're hoping to drool over the character than actually see them come to life, though. My issue isn't disagreeing with Pine, it's disagreeing that Pine could do it. He looks the appropriate age in the Star Trek movies, despite being far older, and was also convincingly dismissed as a reckless boy. Regardless of how he isn't a grizzled vet like his old man, he's still a warrior, and clearly has the spirit in him to fight dirty even if he keeps it together for The Code. Any grizzled old soldier, such as those he's surrounded by, is likely to condescend on him as some greenhorn in a warrior society. He is, after all, just the heir presumptive of The Blackthorn, but we also see that he's seen enough battles to be able to competently lead the forces himself. He is an experienced commander and accomplished fighter, even if the arrogant Alethi dismiss him as wet around the ears. You have to also consider that he's been training for war his entire life; he is probably not going to look like a modern day college kid whose life is Starbucks and frat parties. Life for the Alethi is not like that. Whole Adolin is seen as stylish, so is Sadeas. I agree that Adolin should be youthful. Shallan refers to him as handsome, stylish, with a nice smile -- stylish enough to make the same suit Dalinar wears seem like fashion instead of the intimidating gear of Dalinar. He should have flair, he should have charisma, and he should be young. The problem is that's really hard to find in young actors that aren't, say, a young Brad Pitt. Since you mention GoT (btw, a friend of mine thinks Kit would be great for Kaladin. I kinda' disagree), the way I picture Adolin is kinda' the way the stories picture Jaime Lannister and Robert Baratheon (lecheries aside, that is). Youthful, fashionable, social, but formidable, cunning. Noble warriors restraining their darker sides (in many ways, he's the opposite of Jaime Lannister, who conversely sacrifices his honor for the sake of his family -- Adolin does the opposite). I just can't see Andrew Garfield pulling off that level of nuance, and I'd say most young actors lack that range. So, I guess to try to make peace here, I have no qualms with giving the "No" to Chris Pine. I am not invested in anything Chris Pine has done. I have qualms with dismissing an actor because they have aged, whereas Hollywood is full of actors that have played people 20-30 years younger than them convincingly because it is very, very possible to use smoke and mirrors to drop 20-30 years off someone's face. In all honesty, though, Adolin is probably best cast as a no-name to properly broadcast his generally inconsequential presence to Alethi culture. A big name like Pine would demand focus and screen time, which Adolin isn't there for. It also doesn't help that I picture Alethi as being fairly Greek in appearance, which means that I tend to picture the males as being fairly rugged, as opposed to the smoother image of youth common in American culture. Something like this Greek singer is what I picture: So, I guess, like, the mid-20s billionaire playboy look? Idk.

This was him this year, not even being lighted for stage or a movie, still looking mid-to-late 20s. I'm not even arguing for him as Adolin anymore, I'm arguing that your lack of comprehending the effects of cinematography is baffling. Sean Astin and Elijah Woods are 10 years apart and were able to look the same age in a movie that used absolutely no CG on them. Edit: In fact, let me even pull another angle. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/military/story/2012-08-06/veterans-aging-study-trauma/57608072/1 Even if cinematography didn't have a million ways to hide aging (make-up, lights, cgi, wardrobe), there is plenty of evidence that suggests that prolonged exposure to war prematurely ages people. Kaladin himself has long inner-dialogues about how he's aged so much in his few years of war. His monologue feels easily in his 30's, but he's a lot closer to Shallan's age. There's no reason Adolin should look 30, but he also shouldn't look like a college kid. He's a war veteran. Another edit: Just sayin', about the hair/lines thing, this man was 29 when he died: "Looks ____ age" is a BS excuse.

Just sayin'.

Are you telling me that this Chris Pine, circa 2013, is too old to play an early-to-mid 20s guy: And that this girl, circa 2014, is too old to play a 17 year old?: I think you've got some issues with aging. I'm a HS teacher and spend all day around teenagers who look older than these two.

Because it's not about the actors' age, but their perceived age? Emma Stone has played teenagers before (Easy A, Amazing Spider-Man) and looked the part. Though, admittedly, stretching to 14 would be rough. Unfortunately, neither Felicia Day nor Bonnie...something from Harry Potter look the part anymore. The only decent actress I can think of that LOOKS the part is Lindy Booth. (Though Chloe Grace-Moretz with red hair...) Chris Pine could easily look mid-20s, and Justin Bartha DOES look late-teens, early-20s without any cinematic fountains of youth. People are constantly cast as people 10-20 years younger than themselves in Hollywood as long as it's possible to make them look as young, which it is for all of these actors/actresses. But since you seem to insist on being so bloody literal, for these three: Chloe Grace-Moretz as Shallan [probably actually a great choice] Logan Lerman as Renarin Luke Benward as Adolin (who, by the way, looks older than Chris Pine, but is younger than Adolin) Of course, you could get a much better movie by casting people that looked the part and could actually act than just casting because they line up age-wise. Lighten Emma Stone's hair, light her face well, she'd easily pass for 14. Pine already passes for 25. Bartha could use the same tricks as Stone. The cast of 90210 famously played teenagers for a decade, and that was using 90s-era cinematography. Johnny Depp is 52, looks mid-20s.

I thought Anthony Carrigan would make a marvelous Szeth. Emma Stone could possibly pull off Shallan, I think; she's witty enough, she'd just also have to be bashful enough. I love the idea of Rickman as Sadeas. Justin Bartha seems like he'd make a good Renarin. Just understated enough to be bookish, while also looking like he could be Chris Pine's younger brother.

Hey man, [Winds of] Winter is coming. It'll be right after all of the Cosmere books, the sequel trilogy to Weeks' Night Angel trilogy, and Half-Life 3. It'll still beat Season 2 of Firefly by a week, though.

Do you mean that the Shards can create Splinters intentionally? Spren being Splinters (or at least Honorspren are Splinters of Honor), this would mean that mankind still had Dawnshards, whereas Honor was distressed that mankind's outlook was bleak without them. I'd guess they were greater than that. It's possible that Honorblades were Splinters or Honor, so perhaps the Heralds themselves were the Dawnshards (as they were the beginning [Dawn] of the Radiants, who carried Shardblades and Plate). This would make sense, as the Heralds held back the Desolations, and Honor was expressing these concerns at his own splintering (presumably the breaking of the Oathpact). But even that's unlikely. Given the epitaph itself, where it seems that the person referred to in the Poem of Ista is carrying the Dawnshard up the steps "crafted for Heralds," I'd say it's reasonable to believe that the Dawnshards were something related to the Heralds. Coppermind claims that they are not the same as Honorblades, but the evidence is a throwaway line by Shallan where she speaks of them separately (ironically in a Chapter titled Errorgance), but this epitaph makes clear that there isn't much information about them. Definitely not enough that modern scholars like Shallan could know they were separate. Pairing them this way may even be Brandon's way of foreshadowing this. It makes sense that early scholars would discuss them frequently, but they'd fall out of favor. It's made pretty clear that anybody that bonds an Honorblade can use its powers. The "mortal or voidish" aspect here may refer to that property. (In this case, it makes sense -- the use of Dawn, as a beginning, and Shard, as the phrase used by Roshar's residents to refer to the blades and plates).

Yes, but you're sidestepping the point I made after mentioning the Envisagers. Everytime someone, say Sigzil in Ch71, asks him about them, he tries to avoid answering and claims he just didn't pay enough attention (though obviously he was fairly versed, no?). Teft obviously has strong hang-ups about people that overreach their station, as is demonstrated when he internally-monologues about Moash's rebellious ambitions and Renarin's desire to join Bridge Four. He has this monologue just after he's explained how his mother put herself into a suicidal situation because she strongly believed that she was destined to be a Surgebinder. And yet, for a man that is so hung up on not trying to be something you're not, he has consistently regressed in status all the way down to a Bridgeman, which is something he seems to accept willfully. Given the nature of his parents' deaths, would it be surprising to learn that he was running from that reality? ...Though, if I had to make a second guess, I'd say Axies the Collector makes a lot of sense as well.