sh3nahz

i always put down their skill level on mastering a particular surge as based on individual differences. that even within the same order an individual at surge binding excelled at different aspects of the surges and specific skills. Maybe during the time of the KR there was some kind of academy/school/apprenticeship in place where groups of surge binders honed their skills to a specific level but in the timeframe of the books so far its purely down a persons natural aptitude towards a certain surge and the environment they are in. I think that maybe this will help the new surgebinders more than hinder them as they do not have set rules to follow or tutorlage into a particular surge they can explore the cognitive aspect of surgebinding and be more creative and make new discoveries into what their abilities can do because they dont have a order of people before them to tell them it isn't possible. However i do think there is some kind of minimal competency to which all surgebinders of a order reach with both surges its just that the oaths gives access to certain tools, bindings, blades, plates, abilities ect its just down to that particular individual to make use of that.

maybe the event was odium starting to splinter shards and his containment in the grater roshar system. endowment saw how effective having champions could be and how the honor blades and other shards reacted to odiums threat and that of other shards what it was done as self defence to protect the shard and its creations

i read it as plate could be made from lesser spren and fabrials are made when a spren is trapped within a specific type of gem thats been cut to attract the spren. with enough spren or fabrials they could replicate or augment the abilities of the spren that are trapped within. we dont know what kind of spren make the shardplates yet though could be lesser spren counterparts of the bonded spren like wind or creationspren or could be the spren surrounding the casmfeinds and skyeels that is noticed a few times in the book so could be foreshadowing.

lol was that a lightbringer reference CarrotInquisitor

i like that explanation Natc thank you for answering my ponderings. I like all of brandons magic systems because of they all seem to be cleverly tought out with balance, limitations, costs and rewards and dangers of overuse. i used to watch magic the gathering videos on how they playtest their sets in rnd phase. i can imagine brandon doing this with each of his magic systems trying to break them then fix them and make sure one isnt too overpowered during the world building. i cant wait till the second mistborn era to see how all the magic systems will presumably interact with each other ah, when i meant greater power breaking up into more diversity i meant when the one power broke into the 16 shards each shard each had powers smaller than the orginal yet more diverse in nature and when they created life (from what we have seen thus far) each planet or peoples where more diverse with different investures. On Scadrial allomancy and ferochemy themselves seens to be wheening yet they seemd to be sprouting new twin born combinations. in a differn't way on Sel the shattering of the shards and the reod seemed to have claimed all knowlege the elantrians before them had so after Raoden healed the magic system it would have to adapt and change as that society would have to be rebuilt and reorganised as knowledge would be lost. In warbreaker we could see the five scholars as being the height of knowledge leading to much being lost after the manywar. by the events in warbreaker society had rebuilt itself but it probably looked very different to the time before the manywar and awakingings being used in vary differnt ways to what vasher could do. In MB SH the elantrians seemed to be using fabrial type crystal which could mean that since the many years between elantris and mistborn era 1 they learnt new skills. im probably realy poor at explaining what i want to say and theres probably a ton of holes in my thoughts. its probably summed up as: theres an era of great magic - events happen - knowledge is lost - society rebuilds - people regain knowledge of past powers - things are different as time/society/peoples/philosophy/science has changes (this is an era of great magic) -events happen ... ect (sanderson was influenced by the wheel of time and out own earth history)

This isnt a theory or anything just a random tangent. i had a thought the today reading though some of the posts about the surges and combinations and the heralds. before i start i know the powers the heralds weld come from the honor blades supposedly this being shown by sezth possessing windrunner powers. We haven't seen in point of view how the heralds used their powers. in the mistborn books actual mistborn power and ability to burn all metals seems overpowered compared to the mistings, this could be said the same as the orginal terris fuerchemist being able to use all metals which suposedly have been lost by wax and wayne era, which makes the twin born abilities and parings so interesting and diverse and would lead to so many great plot points, strengths and weaknesses This train of thought got me thinking about the orginal heralds. why do you think sanderson didnt make the heralds have the ability to use all the surges innatley like mistborns? suposedly honor gave them the powers without the need of nahel bond, they could of received all the surges and been given dominance over two specific surges through the honor blades to maintain balance as such. The spren later wanted to recreate this power but could only maintain two surges instead of all ten. It would tie into his theme in other cosmere novels where power in the past was greater and now after a loss there is a re emergence of magic in a weaker but more diverse form with more intrigue towards combinations and balance of power. I mean the heralds were ment to be powerful enough to defeat the desolations and hold the power of a odium on Braize, why wouldnt they be able to use all the surges?

i was reading this thread and was thinking in most religion in our world there is an aspect of god being all knowing,wise, benevolent, having forsight (seeing back and fourth in time),In eastern religions the idea is slighlty differnt butto the same affect that we seek the path of moksha,nirvana,joining ourself to the greater power through spirital enlightenment, ascendancy and apotheosis. therefore i think omnipotence would be a good candidate for a intent

i think shallans ability might have different levels depending on intent and focus of her powers at the point of transformation. the sketches are quick and rushed had she spent as long as forgers do on their investiture doing research and having alot of background knowledge then shallans ability might be longer lasting with a extra cost. shallans powers come from the cryptics and they exist in all things acording to pattern, it might be that the ability to transform identity lasts as long as it is intended to and the cost to produce it. this is the thing i cant understand about forgery. its seems that it is a magic system created by the investiture granted by dominion, the metal plate or soul stamp could interperated as proof of domination over another, be it a person or artifact. Although the dominion shard is splintered the effects of the magic system should not have changed drastically. mayhaps had dominion been whole the effects might be stronger?. The surgebinder powers on the overhand are accidental, the spren wanted to recreate the powers of the heralds that honor gave them. the spren seem to be a splinter of powers between honor, cultivation and the void spren are odiums. Honor and cultivation did not intend for these powers to exist unlike the other shards such as endowment, ruin, preservation (harmony). so the lightweaver powers that shallan is able to show seems overpowered considering they were accidental. unless all the magic systems across the cosmere are accidental due to the shattering of adonalsium. this would make more sense as the powers are bleeding from the intent of the shards rather than being created specifically by the shardholders and are limited by the power of the shards intent. This might be why magic systems seem to overlap their ability ie transformation/forgery but have different strengths and weaknesses. all magic systems should have some level of access on the cognative world due to them being part of adonalsiums power. this might even explain why the shardworlds are linked to the cognative world together due to the shared power. Its probable that there are humans and planets not created by the shards or adonalsium that have no access at all to the spiritual or cognatitve world and they are cut off and mundane.

I love this forum and the theories the sanderson fan community has ans shares and the debates and in depth discussions. Ive recenlty been following the tor.com re reads of both way of kings and words of radiance.and Love the in depth chapter and character discussions and the comments section on there. Im also a George R R Martin a song of ice and fire fan and have listened to various podcasts and youtube videos. One thing has struck me recently, although they are complex and have thousands of characters and plots and sub plots there is only five books so far in ASOIAF, yet the youtube community and pod-casters have hours of chapter, character, plot , theory discussions ect and most my favourite vids/casts have multiple people debating. i was thinking with the cosmere as a whole and the books characters, magic systems, theories about the nature of the cosmere as a whole, the cognitive, spiritual and physical realms and plots. i would love to see this fan community spread into other media and see similar theory casts, plot casts , group re reads of chapters on youtube and podcast form. there is definitely hours to talk and expand on and as sanderson releases more books/novellas every year i would love to see the same spread of cosmere love through other media. i do love this forum though

i was thinking the other day there's another example how the ones identity in the cognitive realm can be transformed due to perspective in warbreaker. Lightsong was always thinking about the returned's apperance and how they seem close to their names, like the perspective of their own identity shaped their appearance. Vasher was able to suppress his returned apperence into a normal human form and denth must have been able to do this aswell Near the end Vasher is talking to Vivenna about her heritage in the royal bloodline being able to change her hair and she infers that it might be possible to change other things as well with practice. This could also be another example of identity and physical realm being mailable due to ones perspective of identity. It might even explain the Parsendi/ listeners ability to change to so many forms due to them being closer to the cognitive realm. (although the vasher /royal bloodline thing, i wasnt entirely sure if it wasnt already a trait from the region of nathalis that he arrived from on the boat that took him to the hallandren region, sort of how depending what area of sel you where born in you have different magic system and racial abilities. its mentioned that there are other regions and countires on nathalis and colour seems locked to that specific region so it wouldnt supprise me if there exists other magic systems in different areas of nathalis)

***contains some spoilers for band of mourning, the emperors soul*** hello all i think this topic has been talked about before in terms of the link between soulcasting and forgery. however after i read the bands of mourning another peice of the puzzle slotted into place. My theory is that shallan being completely unaware can use her soul casting and connection to cryptic spren with her drawing ability to change a persons identity. For this im using Gaz and maybe Yalb as a example. Shallans Memory skill might come from her bond with the cryptic spren. They are described as being a infinite spren trying to see the truth of things (whenever i imagine pattern i always think of some ever changing fractal pattern), when i think of truth i think less of 'truth and lies' but more the mathematical, spiritual, cognatve and realistic truth of the cosmere. I think her Memory ability is part of this glimpsing the truth of a object's/person's reality in all three realms. i think she is able to hack into an object or persons idenity and seperate it and modify it. When she draws she is able to use the physical action of drawing to manifest this change. In this section she describes the charcol,page,and other tools as blood,sinew,skin. interestingly enough these terms are in the ars arcanum besides the heralds. Therefore important to all magic systems in the cosmere. As shallan is activley thinking of these in those terms it is having a reaction to her drawing in the cognative,spiritual realms as well. In Bands of Mourning we find out that a object/persons identity can be manipluated and changed when the Kandra are talking to the wax and wayne gang. Although they are talking in terms of investiture changing its not a long stretch to think of the process as working bidirectionaly, investiture could be used to change a persons identity. we see this with Hemalurgy and forgery for instance. In The emperors soul Shai tells us how Forgery works. Using a phsyical object (marks) and having to know the memoryand history of a object/person to change its identity. I believe when Shallan uses her drawings she literally is able to trim of a part of a persons identity and modify it. whenever she draws a person she has come in contact with she draws a positive aspect reaffirming and strengthening part of the person which was always there and undeveloped.In Yalb, Talakv and Gaz and her other guards (cant remember their names now ) she was drawing braveness and confidence and in likenesses that where different from the people that they had become. I believe when she shows these pictures and drawing to the people themselves, the idenitity within the drawing that shallan had cut and augmented and transformed instantly reaches out and rebinds with the orginal person. As Shai says when forging an object in the cognitive realm is how it is viewd and how it views itself and will always try an exist as a whole. In the novels whenever these peoples glance upon their drawings of themselves they always take a while like Gaz, Jasnah ect, this isnt them admiring the artwork this is the time which their souls are being repaired and changed with shallans transformation ability. when we last see Gaz in words of radiance he seems different and changed this could be due to shallans transformation seeping through his spiritual and cognative self and changing his outlook and self perspective. However i could be wrong as other theorys go and this could be a kandra in disguise.

i think mining metals and ores exist on Roshar, its just not a focus of the points of view characters so they don't put much note to them. The regular soldiers have normal armour spear points and swords made of metals and the women and fabrials have metal workings. so they have blacksmithing and metal artisans. In the plot when they are eating i assume they are using metal cutlery as Brandon would put a focus on hand eating or wooden cutlery.so there is metals on roshar and mining its just not something the characters pay attention to like the gem stones on Scadrial (vin notices nobels in jewlery and keilser knows what a gem looks like and value of its size). there might be a way to hack the investiture by its identity and soul in the cognative realm. sort of like hemerlarlgy spikes steal spiritual identity from one persona soul and grants it to others. Kriss assumes that the fabirals work because they enslaved spren inside of them. the coins the south scadriels use with the power granting uses simlar hacking principles. the shards grant power divine to their realms through investure and the races of the cosmere use science to hack investure to grant them god powers. its probably easier for allomencers, surgebinders, awakeners ect to figure out how to use powers on other planets if they have enough realmatic knowlege. although it probably has diminished returns to thier orginal realm kinda like using a secondary language does, theres always something lost in translation and not natural to the neural network.

i dont think you could accurately tell the size of Roshar by how long a character would take to walk. for instance on our planet as a species is quiet diverse due to environmental and genetics through time, like desert nomads being able to walk huge distances, or nepalese/himilayan mountain men being able to survive in high altitudes. The races of roshar would have similar genetic/environmental differences. Not to mention they might have differences in their DNA due to being created by shards, so although they may be human they probably arent exact analogues of earth humans. On Scadrial the nobels and ska were altered by rashek in many ways and the races on roshar look like they have many variations. although these could be muted by generations of interbreeding. that being said the distance a member of a race could walk maynot be accurate to get a viable measurement. Plus im guessing that 4 month time length would be taking into account the cycle of highstorms . If it was during a weeping it may be able to travel further with better weather than during a frequent cycle. That being said as roshar is a super continent the amount of daylight/ night hours may hugely vary dependant on latitude and orbital axis to the sun as well as seasonal differences.

perhaps theres a unknown combinations of blessings that allows a kandra to world hop something harmony would have changed. tensoon had two sets of blessings mayhaps theres a combination that makes world hopping possible for them. rashek made the blessings through ruins knowledge but maybe he witheld or just didnt understand the information towards them. hemalargy seems to have something to do with souls maybe its not just stealing powers but keeping them intact through worldhopping. random thoughts theres probably a wob disproving it

fair enough just just a random idea these cosmere theories are fun i like the level of interaction and imersion i get from these books and the community

i was thinking about elantrians using dor was tied to the land, some kind of cognative,physical,spirtual magic where they draw their power cognative to that of the land.which is why it worked in elantis beause aon roa was shapped like elantris. This got me thinking about the sand plate vibrations kabsal was showing shallan in kabranth being linked to cities. Although Jasnah dismisses this what if these patterns show places of power where the cognative and physical realms hold power like elantris. I know Dor is a magic caused by the splintered shards on sel but if a elantian could in theory jury rig stormlight into one of those cities, sort of like a closed electricity network around the city walls. Could in theory a elantian come up with a new aon pattern system focusing stormlight invested fabrials using that cities patterns to access Dor like magic?

if it is the nurse then is it plausable that one of the nurses in taravangions death rattle hospital. what makes me think this is hoid is often described as a begger or fool in many of the other worlds. It seems like the worldhoppers might be creatures of comfort and slip into the guises they feel more accustomed to

does odium have similar abilities as ruin to change the words written? after reading mistrborn i was thinking of the listener songs and the diagram written by Taravangian. Ruin had the ability to talk to mad people, preservation had the ability to talk to people and communicate through mist spirit and ruin could change written text that wasnt written in metal. i was thinking that odium could do similar things to Taravangian's ''brillant'' state and could change the text of the diagram every time they looked for it, helping guide the diagram group towards desolation. I was also thinking this is a way odium could of corrupted the listener songs causing them to become voidbringers. I presume the listeners exist between desolations in a innert form and only becoming voidbringers before a desolation. therefore odium corrupting their songs.

thats intresting how different people see pattern constituted different. ive always seen pattern as being a 3d sometimes 2d ever shifting fractal structure and his shape always shifting into a new fractal arrangement. World wise i find when im reading mistborn books the world looks like the game dishonored but maybe a little bit steampunk in clothing style. Stormlight archives my imagination takes me to a Anime/ frank Muller/world of warcraft style world with the races and colours. The alethi i imagine looking lebanese or turkish. the shin i imagine looking tibetan or mongolian, something about Szeth reminds me of a Buddhist warrior monk. Imagining a anime/mmo stylke world helps me see the races being completely strikingly different and sets a special tone with the fight sequences. Intresting enough i see in my head the sharde blades being like Zanpaktu in bleach manga but the shard plate looking like the suits from the game Warframe and not medieva. its intresting after reading the wheel of time novels i can clearly see sandersons fantasy writing style being infromed by robert jordan but his aweosme worlds and magic sytems i can see being influenced by Magic the gathering and how each plane has its own unique fraction/ magic dynamic and balance. So i see people like Wit being almost like a Planeswalker

hello guys this is my first post hope this makes sense here goes my theory i ve just read books 1 and 2 and just been reading theorys on various forums but i havent come across this one yet as such. it stuck me as i was reading eshonai's interludes when she was talking about the differences between listener/voidbringer forms that it seems to involve captured spren. she alludes that the listeners decided to denounce their gods and chose to become dull form/parshmen out of choice and this lead to a racial cleansing of all memories of other forms/songs that could turn them into servents of their gods. it stuck me as their wasnt a time reference to when this happened and my mind linked it to the stories of cities worth of spren being killed during the KR recreance. Also, there is no reference of when the parshmen were enslaved. In dalaners visions before feverstonekeep there are no parshmen around but in the time the story takes place there are everywhere in all cities/towns. i thought this was odd untill eshonais interludes. this might seem long winded and im probably joining a few other theories (sorry for any liberal plagiarism) but i beleve that after the heralds abondoned the oath pact, the KR became more fragmented as hinted in the back stories on each chapter in WOR. that the nations and orders became fractured and started in fighting. those quotes hint of trechery and whole orders turning on one another. after while they stopped functioning as a whole and abandoned Urithiru fighting off voidbringers/listeners. during this time they learnt of the braking of the oaths. (maybe from one of the heralds) and felt betrayed. During this period of time a faction of the voidbringers atuned into that song of peace of internal screaming stormform eshonia found and decided to brake form their gods. They seperated from the voidbringers forms that the now fractured KR were fighting and made a plan to turn all listeners into dullform/ parshmen. they made a plea to KR. the KR feeling betrayed and tired of fighting came together one last time to try and solve the voidbringer and a potential new desolation by forcing the spren to turn voidbringers into their dullforms/parshmen. this whole act betrayed their oaths and they caused their own bonded spren to die. Eshonai notes theire is little difference between dullform/ parshmen. Maybe the dullform/listerners where the group that choose the path to cleanse their race and stop desolations and the parshmen are the voidbringers that where forced by the KR killing whole populations of spren to change them hence their lack of intelligence compared to listeners because of the violent change compared to the listeners choice. After which mankind enslaved the parshmen. i belive the recreance might have resulted from the desperation the KR fractured and betrayed by the heralds oathbraking and attempting one final combined 10 ordered effort to stop another desolation being convinced by the listeners/parshendi.They might have thought this would be the only way as only one herald was left to fight in damnation. i belive they thought the heralds had abandoned the world and nations and would not be around to help rebuild the orders in time if another desolation came so their bonded spren scraficed themselves staying in shard/pate form for future generations to be used to defend roshar. this is why they abdoned the shards at towns/forts and cities rather than hide them so the peoples of roshar would have a chance to fight back having the heralds forsake their duty. anyway i hope this long winded theory makes sense