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dj26792

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dj26792 last won the day on February 14 2013

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  1. But we know that if you have sufficient gold, when your arm is cut off you can just grow a new one, thats part of where this theory came from. I am absolutely positive that Feruchemical gold could allow someone to minimise the trauma of hemalurgy, and heal from the damage done. I am considerably less confident that they could recover their powers with only Feruchemical gold, but maintain that it is a possibility, although more likely that the use of Feruchemical aluminium is required. However I don't actually think all that much Feruchemical aluminium would be required, I think lots of Feruchemical gold would be required, and it would probably in practice require a gold compounder to get enough, but Feruchemical aluminium I think you would only need a few days storage because you would only need to keep it up for a short time, so storing at 40% for a week could easily get you 200% for 10 minutes, which is all I think you would need.
  2. Ok so there is a lot I want to talk about here, and this is going to take a while... Ok, your explanation of what is happening and your key evidence makes sense, but I have some issues with your claims. Your first claim is that we know about feruchemical compounding so its no stretch that allomantic compounding could work, I get your point but I'm yet to see any plausible method that doesn't cause the balancing issues raised by Satsuoni, or make Feruchemical nicrosil pointless, you talk about storing the trait of investiture of an allomantic type in a metal mind, as far as I can tell that makes Feruchemical nicrosil redundant, which seems incredibly unlikely to me. Second you claim that tin feruchemy shows us that we can store multiple different traits in one kind of metal, again someone else beat me to my dispute here as random man said, tin feruchemy lets you store one thing, your ability to perceive the world, it lets you store different parts of it, and forces you to store or tap those parts separately, but its still one trait, you argue that burning steel and storing steel are different parts of the same trait, but I don't think they are, if they were there wouldn't be mistings and ferrings, everyone would be twinborn. Your third point makes sense to me, I agree with that, although I would argue that while none of the characters we've seen have known how to do it, it should be possible for a sufficiently skilled/knowledgeable tin ferring to store multiple attributes in one tinmind in the same way that multiple feruchemists can store in one metalmind, but I don't think it would be easy to do and would have to involve some form of cognitive trickery. Your final point, I would argue that external power is not being stored, your power is being stored and immediately replenished by an external source. eg for Brass if you stood in a furnace and stored heat, you wouldn't store the furnaces heat, you would store your heat, and then the furnace would heat you back up. This might seem like semantics, but I think its important because feruchemy is all about storing your attributes for later, not outside power. In summary (to the first half of my post) I think my biggest problem with this idea is that it makes Feruchemical nicrosil redundant and creates way too much potential for infinite power loops. before I move on too far, @entropic scholar, I suspect that the attribute is stored in the spiritual rather than the cognitive because (WoK spoiler) and also this extremely long and complicated theory. Essentially the relevant part of this theory is that attributes are stored in the spiritual. I support it because its as close to a confirmed universal realmatic theory as we have on the boards. It always loses power, even if only a little bit. It does allow for the recipient to use the donor's metal minds but hemalurgy is traumatic to the donor spiritually as well as physically, so it doesn't really allow for sharing so much as theft, and so far as I can tell the spiritual damage is generally enough to be fatal even if the physical damage is minor, although that is only my interpretation of the available information and hasn't been expressly stated source - one of the last quotes in the post, also, its only for spiritual damage done by hemalurgy. The Most Recent Source - its worth noting that Brandon's position on this seems to wander quite a bit. I also have a theory which I haven't posted yet that this is due to spiritual damage being done, in which case Miles would steal feel excruciating agony and just in general have a bad day trying to burn a hemalurgic spike, but thats a discussion for another thread. I've read this a few times and I'm still not sure if it seems confrontational/aggressive, if it does I apologise, I tried to soften some of the language where it seemed bad
  3. I think you misremembered, his eyes are clearly stated as blue the first time he is introduced, it goes on to say that he isn't really a lighteyes or a darkeyes, but the context makes it pretty clear that thats more because of what he acts like than because of actual legal status
  4. doesn't lift use growth to break a window open? with the seeds right near the start... I also would like to suggest that all healing is a manipulation of the growth surge and referred to as regrowth, but I don't really have much proof, except the chart thats floating around with growth labelled as a surge and neither of those orders having another surge called regrowth. But I don't really remember where it was to get a link.
  5. Considering the interview is from 2010 I would guess that it is almost definitely a book 1 interlude, not words of radiance... But i agree that the lift interlude contains some pretty interesting stuff.
  6. Is the spiritual damage done by a hemalurgic spike (to the donor) similar to the damage done by a shardblade? and Is the spiritual damage done by a hemalurgic spike a 'clean' cut? (eg: does it make a mess of the soul left behind, or leave a 'clean' edge) and Is a hole left in the persons spirit web or does it close up as the spike is removed?
  7. I think alaxel means the spiritual damage only, certainly I would argue for the spiritual damage only being in anyway a clean cut, I wouldn't argue for it stitching up the wound on the way out however, so I clearly disagree with alaxel in some ways. In reply to the rest of both of your comment: While certainly the physical side of hemalurgy could be neatened up quite easily, I really don't see the spiritual side being tidied up without the addition of outside magic to heal the spiritual damage, which I still claim exists. Ruin is all about Ruining things, and we know that shards have some control over the form of their magic systems, it makes a lot of sense to me that Ruins magic system would be ruinous, we already know it is ruinous in that it results in a net investiture loss, and that it damages the recipient, it makes sense to me that it would also damage the donor. I think that you could minimise the damage by starting healing magic while the spike was in there and keeping it up as it is removed, but I think ultimately that being a donor hemalurgically has a minimum amount of spiritual damage that can't be avoided, you can only be so precise with a meat cleaver, which seems to me at least what hemalurgy is most like, you can take someones heart out undamaged with a meat cleaver (I assume, I've honestly never felt the need to try), but the rest of the persons chest will be a mess. All that said, we really have no way to tell beyond asking, unless there is WoB I haven't heard about I think that on this point at least we can't really have much of a useful debate, we have 3 valid points of view and no real evidence either way, its not a matter of interpreting from limited information, I don't know of any about the spiritual damage inflicted by spiking. Edit: I forgot to add: to the Ultimate Question List and also the events/stalking forum.
  8. First of all let me apologise for the tone of that last post of mine, looking back it it now it does come across confrontational and that's a pretty common failing for me so I should know better by now, let me assure you I didn't mean to be so but it even I cringed re-reading parts of it. I was not offended by any discussion in this topic, or even irritated, I'm even enjoying the discussion (except for the bit where I accidentally made you think I was offended). I do not think theories are binary things but I think you should have some kind of argument beyond this can't be proven wrong, I thought I said that wasn't true of this one, just a general annoyance (and really with the world at large as much as this forum). I personally theorise (or attempt to, I'm not perfect) under a simple principle thats quite a common statement among historians: A lack of evidence is not evidence of a lack, I add a personal addendum that it also isn't evidence, that was the point I was attempting to make when I re-quoted Darnam's version of this statement. Moving on to the realmatics As my attempt at explaining how I disagree was a miserable failure, let me ask questions instead because maybe I just don't understand, as there seems to be general agreement (so far as I can tell) that types 5 and 6 are just hemalurgy and types 3 and 4 don't actually happen I will ignore those now, also type 1 because we already understand that fairly well. Beyond simply feruchemical compounding works what reasoning and evidence do you have for the existence of allomantic (type 2) compounding? Why does there need to be a spiritual or cognitive difference between a metalmind and another piece of metal, besides the attatched attribute? Extra question on that topic because that I'm really only working out as I type, would you argue that there is the same sort of change in a box when you place something in it? ie: is the difference between an empty box and a full box the same as the difference between a piece of metal and a metal mind? (side note for Darnam: I really have no idea what the change is, entropicscholar keeps talking about a change in some or all of a piece of metal when a feruchemical charge is stored in it, I see no need for a change aside from the presence of the substance, and don't really know what it is.)
  9. there are other world hoppers than Hoid and the 17th shard, but we don't know anything about them, presumably some of them are just in it for the adventure and would be amenable to delivering a letter for someone.
  10. Well you can only steal one trait at a time and it would take huge amounts of health to heal just the physical damage, the spiritual damage would take even more, and even if you can recover your traits with Feruchemical gold the amounts of health required would be even more enourmous than just patching up the spirit web without rebuilding it completely. Alaxel my guess is that 2 is the most correct we know hemalurgy is traumatic, Brandon always describes it as brutal, and fundamentally evil (in his world view), if it was just nice and neat and did a surgical patch up as you ripped the spike out it wouldn't be that bad, I agree that its a clean cut, but more in the sense of a meat cleaver making a clean cut than a surgeon with a scalpel. I don't think it would change the persons identity directly though, the reason I think it might not be able to heal the person lost ability is that the hemalurgy will have stolen the persons investiture and that would require outside input (from preservation or other shard, depending on what was stolen) to get back. AND/OR the 'form' of someone who has been hemalurgically violated in some fashion prevents it because someone who has been damaged like that no longer has their power and that over rides the persons identity as someone who does. Although I'd like to ask Kurkistans opinion on that just because I'm bit hazy on how the forms would work both generally and in this specific case. Basically this theory was a random idea and I don't feel qualified to defend it too strongly, even though I'm pretty sure I'm right
  11. True, but it is even more true that a lack of evidence is not evidence, if you claim its a good theory because we can't prove it wrong its definitely not a good theory, I'm not saying thats necessarily true of this theory but I've seen a few claims around that theories must be plausible because you can't prove them wrong and that thinking irritates me. I can't remember. So instead I will just present my understanding of how it actually works and the theories about it that I like, and then highlight where that disagrees with what you've suggested. Feruchemy works by storing an attribute, not investiture (except nicrosil, obviously), any investiture involved in the process is at storing and tapping not what is being stored or tapped, how this works is to do with cognitive forms and spiritual <what ever the spiritual bit is called>, and its a long time since I've looked into that theory in detail so I'll simply say that this very long theory contains the development of the ideas about how all magic in the cosmere works. (very spoilerific, also that thread is almost a novel in and of itself) In allomancy the nature of the metal acts as a filter for investiture coming from Preservation and has an effect, this is pretty simple I think we all understand if not the fine detail broadly how it works. When compounding feruchemical stores you burn a metalmind, and the store in the metal mind provides a different filter for preservations investiture and this is where the extra output comes from, Preservations power filtered by your attribute, you can obviously then re-store your vast output of attributes which will allow you to keep most of it for later since most of the time you couldn't possibly use the huge power output gained by this method thats very helpful. This is pretty much what you said about type 1 compounding I believe. What you called Type 6 compounding (I think) is just basic hemalurgy, and you got that right, we know about that broadly at least there are still questions about it, but not about its broad functionality. I would dispute you calling it a type of compounding however, but thats just terminology. I would make no distinction between type 5 and type 6 and once again, hemalurgy is not compounding. We don't know exactly how hemalurgic decay effects feruchemy, but it isn't otherwise any different than allomantic hemalurgy. type 4 compounding I would argue just doesn't work, because of the way multiple types of investiture get stored in an object the store of the metal mind would not be accessible to the person you stabbed with it instead it would steal an attribute from them hemalurgically and you would now have an object that was both a spike and a metalmind and also a corpse. type 3 really just makes no sense to me, I don't think it would work. You can burn a hemalurgic spike, but it doesn't have to be in your stomach and as far as I can tell it doesn't compound its just a source of metal, it also causes immense pain and spiritual damage, the reasons for this are unknown and not (to my knowledge) the subject of any theories (although I might change that). Source This leaves type 2 which is really the interesting part, at least to me and I honestly don't know that I think it works, but this does come back to the idea that a lack of evidence isn't evidence of a lack, so I won't criticise it too much but I think the only way to power allomancy feruchemically involves using nicrosil and we don't really know how that works except for the clearly modified for balancing version the MAG gives. LAST MINUTE ADDITIONS IN REPLY TO YOUR LAST 2 POSTS: Please avoid double posting, edit your previous post, just a bit of forum etiquette. Your explanation of tin feruchemy I agree with, but I would still argue against any fundamental change in the metal in a metalmind and other metal of the same composition, there is no realmatic reason for it to change beyond your idea that it should (as far as I can see). Therefore applying Occam's razor, no change. But that's just my opinion.
  12. Yeah, the healing the ability back was something that I didn't really think would work, I would assume the form of hemalurgy would include the fact that once it was used you couldn't just heal your power back, but at the same time Brandon keeps on saying Feruchemical gold and other cosmere healing heals injuries and non-chronic illnesses and I wondered, does hemalurgy inflict a traumatic injury on your spirit web that Feruchemical gold could heal, or does it count as chronic... I'm inclined to think its chronic for balancing reasons but I really can't think of a realmatic reason so I asked the question. My understanding of Feruchemical aluminium is that if hemalurgy does damage your identity accessing a stored aluminium identity should allow you to use Feruchemical gold to heal it, but I'm a little shaky on how Feruchemical aluminium works.
  13. not gonna lie every time I type Gavilar it comes out Galivar and I have to go back and correct it.
  14. well I am from numerous places, all of which could be termed as Australia. I was born in Sydney Lived briefly (4 1/2 years) in Broken Hill while I grew up Came back to Sydney for my later teenaged years and currently study in Launceston, Tasmania (Live there during semester, Sydney other times)
  15. Points for novelty if nothing else, I can't think of a reason why not... Except Honourblades are supposed to be weapons of huge power, far in excess of a normal shardblade and I feel like someone should have noticed, they're also less vanishy than normal shardblades from what we've seen, although that is by no means certain. I like it better than the theory that Szeth has an honourblade although I don't think either is more likely than the other. In summary I think that this theory is definitely plausible and can think of no real reasons it has to be wrong, or even is wrong but I currently find it unlikely.