• Announcements

    • Chaos

      Oathbringer Spoiler Policy   11/13/2017

      Oathbringer is out! Let's make our policy on spoilers clear! 1. You must preface topics with Oathbringer spoilers with the prefix [OB] in the front 2. You are only allowed to post spoilers and spoiler topics in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board, Cosmere Theories, and some select work-related forums. 3. For posts in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board you do not need to use spoiler tags inside a topic marked [OB]. For Cosmere Theories, you also do not need to put spoiler tags inside your topic if the topic has [OB] in the title. However, for Cosmere Theories, if you are adding Oathbringer stuff to an old theory without the [OB] tag, those must go in spoiler tags and you must make it obvious outside the spoiler tag that the spoiler is regarding Oathbringer content. 4. For select things that do require talking about OB spoilers, in Events, Coppermind, and Arcanum forums, those are allowed but keep OB spoilers in spoiler tags 5. Avoid and minimize spoilers in topic titles--even though those two boards will not appear in the Recent Topics ticker, topic titles still appear in Recent Activity and the forum home.  6. You aren't allowed to post Oathbringer spoilers in places other than listed, even with spoiler tags.  It will be nine months and then the Oathbringer board will be re-merged with the Stormlight board and you will not need to tag these spoilers. If you'd like to move something in the Stormlight Archive board to the Oathbringer board, to update it with new Oathbringer information, Report the post and we will happily move it to the Oathbringer spoiler board. Part-by-part Reactions Though the Oathbringer Spoiler Board will be very spoilery, very fast (maybe don't come there until you've read the book, as people do have copies that bookstores sold early), you'll have these five topics for reactions if you want to nerd out: Part 1 Reactions
      Part 2 Reactions
      Part 3 Reactions
      Part 4 Reactions
      Full Book Reactions For parts 1-4, they will not include the interludes immediately following it. On Discord All Oathbringer spoilers on Discord will be exclusively in the #oathbringer_spoilers channel for the nine month spoiler period and nowhere else.

Ookla, the Incalculable

  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by Ookla, the Incalculable

  1. Discussion of intent has come up quite a bit lately, so I feel it's about time to formally put down this theory. I've listed many of the points I'll make here elsewhere, but I've never strung them together in one place (excluding Discord). Section 1: Origins To begin, we must address the Shattering. We know that a group consisting of at least 16 people somehow killed a divine entity, and split it's power among themselves. Each of these pieces has an intent which demands the power they hold be used in certain ways. I believe that these intents are quite literally Adonalsium torn asunder. I believe that Adonalsium had no Vessel. The sheer amount of investiture that comprised the sum of all shards means that when it developed a mind it easily surpassed sentience, and became a sapient being. When a Shard is splintered, the Vessel is no longer holding the power and it is separated from the mind that guided it, whether that Vessel was killed or merely gave up the power. This was not an option for Adonalsium. It was the power. When it was Shattered, the mind was shattered with it, and the remnants of that mind became the intents that drive the Shards we know. Section 2: Interpretation The intents of the shard are, by this idea, far more malleable than is often stated. This is speculation, and I base it largely on Ati, and I see no real way to confirm or deny this until we see a single shard change hands and be held long enough to express its intent. A mind is needed to guide the Shard. The Vessels can alter the way that that power is made manifest. My view on this, is that the names of the Shards that we know is not the pure intent of the Shards themselves, but the interpretation of that core concept by their Vessel. Much of this grew out of my head canon for Ati. In the letters between Hoid and Frost we are told that Ati was a "kind and gentle man," and yet he become a monster that reveled in the death and suffering of all. I believe that the kind and gentle man viewed Ruin as a monstrous force that needed to be contained, and Leras agreed with him. They worked together to attempt to contain this immeasurable force. It was Ati's belief that was his undoing. His interpretation of the force of Ruin as monstrous and destructive created the very monster that he feared. His interpretation forced the Shard to manifest in the way he believed, and this was so at odds with his nature that it overcame and consumed him. But a Shard still requires a mind to guide it. So while his interpretation of Ruin subsumed his personality, it was still shaped by the belief that caused it to be so violent and sadistic. Sazed in contrast views Ruin as a natural force. I don't think he would become that creature even if he held only Ruin. For a hypothetical example of what I mean, look at Vin. She did not hold the Shard of Preservation long enough for us to know what the outcome would be. Considering her immediate actions, I propose that she could have been called "Salvation" or "Protection." Shifting the focus away from stasis, to "preserving" life. It is a drastically different interpretation of a concept that exists at the core of both words. The protection of what is. Due to this interpretation, I don't believe that any attempt to categories the Shards is possible until we see them with different Vessels and are able to try and determine what the actual core concept of each is, and what was actually taken from Adonalsium itself. So perhaps Rayse is not lying, and Passion truly is the core intent of what he holds. The name Odium is known though, and regardless of what he states, I think it is the intent he has made manifest.
  2. Yeah... That...
  3. I understand your reasoning, but I still disagree. The temperament of the individual aspects may vary, but it still shows that each is beholden to the greater whole. Why bother with reporting to the collective at all if it makes its own decisions? Additionally. Why would one aspect be censured at all if they were truly autonomous? I don't mean to come across as overly assured, and I don't expect anyone to be able to answer all my questions, because I'll just come up with more. I want to know.
  4. Considering the wording of the WoB I posted earlier in the thread, "Hoid has an interesting relationship with several of them." it seems likely that more than one Shard is Sho Del. 16 Shards. 3 sapient races on Yolen. There's room for diversity.
  5. First, the Parshendi were never of Honor. Second, Odium arrived with the humans, and to the Parshendi, it would have seemed that he was their God, but this is not necessarily true.
  6. Why then, does the letter speak in the voice of a collective? Even if what you think about Autonomy is true, this doesn't speak as an individual autonomous to the others. It speaks as if it is a single piece, subject to the will of the collective. We. Us. Our. This is not an autonomous mind.
  7. Honor did not die until after the Recreance. The Oathpact was made between him and the Heralds. It was not a product of his death.
  8. I agree. And I think that's when we'll see these ships.
  9. ... I wasn't aware any of it was directed at you personally. That wasn't the intention.
  10. And I just don't buy it. Hoid's words in the first letter show he wants to take out Bavadin as much as Rayse. He's not going to reach out to her, because he thinks she's as bad as Odium. They are the two people on Hoid's hit list. I am not presenting Ambition as a sure thing here, and Oversleep obviously isn't either. The assurance with which people say that the letter is Autonomy bothers me though. Much of what is said about Bavadin as having fit the letters in this thread are assumptions propagating themselves as fact through repetition. We've never met Bavadin. We've never seen anything about her means or methods to try and align with the information presented. These things are being assumed as fact, from an interpretation of a single WoB that could be interpreted differently as this thread shows. I'm not absolutely convinced that this is Ambition. But I'm less convinced of Autonomy. And the confidence with which everyone else says Autonomy bothers me, because I don't see a solid foundation for the claims, any more than this theory presents in counterpoint.
  11. And both have an increased likelihood to see spren like Rock can.
  12. Normal eyes. The Parshendi blood is both low enough percentage that they're mostly human, and far enough back that they stabilized as arguably their own race. Same with Herdazians.
  13. Nohadon was not king at the time of the last desolation. Nohadon was early. The Way of Kings (the in world book) was the inspiration for the Orders. The Knights were established and fought in the Desolations. If he were king at the end, the Orders as we know of them would have only existed between Ahariatiem and the Recreance.
  14. Solid black with no visible iris or pupil for standard forms. Solid red for Regals and Fused.
  15. If I had a choice? Cultivation hands down. The planning and manipulation. The tugging of strings to achieve a desired result. I would enjoy the abilities of the quintessential web weaver.
  16. One thing that I wanted to add, that hasn't been brought up, but we're all aware of. I believe it was @ccstat who brought it up in discord (and I don't mean to imply that he subscribes to the Ambition theory, because to my knowledge he doesn't back either one) that it is well known that Wit and Bavadin have a grudge. Why would the Hoid reach out to a Shard based on familiarity, when we all know according to the first letters between Hoid and Frost, that Hoid's relationship with Bavadin is anything but cordial? The very familiarity the second letter references, as if expecting a friendly interaction, is in opposition with the relationship we know the two share.
  17. Fabrials can reproduce everything that the surges can do. This will never result in a "Fabrial Radiant" though. Fabrials by their very nature express one specific use of a surge, and only one. For a person to be able to do everything that a Radiant can, they'd have to be carrying enough fabrials that they would be difficult to keep track of. I have visions of a character who is kind of a Fabrial-Tech Batman, but even that wouldn't be the same thing. They'd need to be remarkably skilled on their own, and then have Fabrial gadgets to aid them. The flexibility of a Radiant will never be replicable by a fabrial though.
  18. I don't think our eye colors actually fit in anywhere. Dark eyes are unnaturally dark. Most are near black, and color can only be seen when the light hits them correctly. I expect that light eyes are also not just unnatural colors, like orange and yellow, but more vibrant then our natural eyes. Even for natural colors. I think that our variations, light or dark, would fall in between and thoroughly confuse Rosharans.
  19. If he'd splintered the Shard, he may not have foreseen this as a possibility. Something has definitely changed recently. In OB he speaks as though just splintering isn't enough and the fragments of Honor's power must be dealt with. Ambition, if this is true and he is aware of it, could be a very good reason for that change.
  20. I don't think the Cognitive Shadow is needed at all. Hoid has had contact with Adonalsium and all the Shards. There's connection there to be read. When Sazed picked up the power, he intuitively learned its history. In Elantris, the Shardpool speaks with Aona's voice, even though we know she dead and gone. The power itself has a record, even without the Vessel itself. As to your earlier response to me about Bavadin, I'll agree to disagree. There are 3 sapient races from Yolen, and if the naming structure is correct (Sho Del, Uli Da, Etc.) the Bavadin isn't Sho Del, which would place her as either Human or Dragon. Both of which we've seen speak in a normal syntaxes in reference to the self.
  21. All Selish magics require connection to the nation of origin.
  22. All fabrials are relatively new. Spanreeds are a couple decades old. We're watching an insanely rapid technological explosion. Navani is an artifabrian. I'm not saying that it's not possible, but it's far less interesting. We also have no evidence that a lashing can be anchored in that way. Lashing infuse the stormlight directly into the object to be effected. All together, I think Navani would be far more likely to expand the tech she knows intimately to take advantage of the things the Radiants are doing, then to rely on them as a crutch in place of technological advances.
  23. But if that's all you need, why bother with a Radiant at all when we have evidence of fabrials able to do something similar?
  24. Which would make the ship impossible to steer as it would be falling in a set direction.
  25. Thank you. I completely disagree, but in trying to argue my point you made me realize fully why I disagree so hard. Bavadin has been known to have many different personas. Many faces through which she acts. But they're all Bavadin. Not Autonomy. Bavadin. If this thing is Autonomy, Bavadin is gone. This is not acting. It's not playing a role. This appears to be a true collective, in that there's no sense of self, just of us. Thats not what that WoB describes.