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      Oathbringer Spoiler Policy   11/13/2017

      Oathbringer is out! Let's make our policy on spoilers clear! 1. You must preface topics with Oathbringer spoilers with the prefix [OB] in the front 2. You are only allowed to post spoilers and spoiler topics in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board, Cosmere Theories, and some select work-related forums. 3. For posts in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board you do not need to use spoiler tags inside a topic marked [OB]. For Cosmere Theories, you also do not need to put spoiler tags inside your topic if the topic has [OB] in the title. However, for Cosmere Theories, if you are adding Oathbringer stuff to an old theory without the [OB] tag, those must go in spoiler tags and you must make it obvious outside the spoiler tag that the spoiler is regarding Oathbringer content. 4. For select things that do require talking about OB spoilers, in Events, Coppermind, and Arcanum forums, those are allowed but keep OB spoilers in spoiler tags 5. Avoid and minimize spoilers in topic titles--even though those two boards will not appear in the Recent Topics ticker, topic titles still appear in Recent Activity and the forum home.  6. You aren't allowed to post Oathbringer spoilers in places other than listed, even with spoiler tags.  It will be nine months and then the Oathbringer board will be re-merged with the Stormlight board and you will not need to tag these spoilers. If you'd like to move something in the Stormlight Archive board to the Oathbringer board, to update it with new Oathbringer information, Report the post and we will happily move it to the Oathbringer spoiler board. Part-by-part Reactions Though the Oathbringer Spoiler Board will be very spoilery, very fast (maybe don't come there until you've read the book, as people do have copies that bookstores sold early), you'll have these five topics for reactions if you want to nerd out: Part 1 Reactions
      Part 2 Reactions
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      Full Book Reactions For parts 1-4, they will not include the interludes immediately following it. On Discord All Oathbringer spoilers on Discord will be exclusively in the #oathbringer_spoilers channel for the nine month spoiler period and nowhere else.

dantlee

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  1. None come to mind immediately, but I found it really funny (and slightly out-of-place) when Brandon used the word "straight-up" in one of Shallan's chapters. I don't think I've seen such casual American slang used in any of his other books, at least not in-world.
  2. I was just going to post this WOB! I was very solidly in the Evi camp until I read this one. I know a RAFO doesn't mean much, but the way Brandon reacts to certain RAFOs is often illuminating, and I think this lends a lot more credence to the idea that Odium is talking about Adonalsium when he says "we killed you." As others have pointed out, Dalinar has at least some investiture from Honor, Odium, and Cultivation, which means it's at least possible that he may indeed be on the way to reforming Adonalsium and not just Honor's shard.
  3. Um, sorry, I guess? I don't understand why you're upset about it - I'd already explained that my wifi was really crappy, and when I posted an hour ago I wasn't able to load previous pages of the thread. I also added another WoB that you hadn't quoted.
  4. Yeah, I'm arguing your side, against Scavell. He asked which WoB I was referencing that had shut down the idea that there were exactly 9 desolations prior to this one, so I posted two that pretty definitively end that discussion.
  5. I can understand some of the criticisms of Shallan's character, and especially the multiple personalities direction that Brandon has taken her in OB, but I agree with others in this thread that the hate is overblown and often stems from personal politics, or a dislike of her romantic arcs. She's far from my favorite character, and I actually liked her a lot more before OB, because I don't think Brandon has done an especially good job portraying split personalities (in contrast, I think the USA show Mr. Robot has done a fantastic job of examining that particular issue). The point remains that Shallan has undergone an almost unbearable amount of trauma throughout her life, something that Kaladin often remarks on (who, I would add, is an equally if not more broken person, but gets far less hate because of his heroics and combat ability). As someone who had an extremely physically and emotionally abusive, alcoholic father growing up, I find Shallan extremely relatable. It took decades for me to heal, and only thanks to really fantastic mentors, friends, and lovers who were incredibly supportive of me throughout high school and college - something that Shallan has never had until very recently in her life. She is still very young and inexperienced in both life and love, and is bound to make decisions that readers may vehemently disagree with - and decisions she herself will likely come to regret as she grows as a person and Knight Radiant.
  6. I'm on incredibly crappy wifi right now so I was only able to do a quick search, but these two pretty definitively put an end to the idea that each unmade was created each time a herald broke. That theory depends fundamentally on the assumption that there were exactly 9 desolations prior to this one, and that each herald only broke once. Now, maybe there were more unmade that were destroyed as you suggest, but the in-text evidence overwhelmingly points to the current unmade being the very same ones that the forces fought against in every previous desolation. We have Nohadon referencing the same unmade as we've seen in the present day, and we've seen in multiple of Dalinar's visions, which are clearly taking place in different eras, the Knights Radiant referencing the same unmade that we see today. Again, I really don't like being the guy to shoot down creative theories, and I really liked the idea when I first saw it in the OB reaction thread. But upon further examination, there is just so much evidence against it that the theory is incredibly unlikely, and requires some serious mental gymnastics to try and get any part of it to work. #desolations
  7. You’re stretching pretty far for something we have a lot of evidence against. It was a nice theory, but post-OB WoB have pretty much dismissed the possibility.
  8. I know some people really like the “unmade were created each time a herald broke” theory, but it just doesn’t hold water. We have several woB, and a lot of textual evidence, confirming that there were more than 9 or 10 desolations before this one. Sorry to be the party pooper.
  9. I'm most curious about the Caretaker of Laughter, which Nazh has marked as "Avoid at all costs," and "Salumon the Third Tower." We know that the Sea of Lost Lights, geographically, is bordered to the southeast by the Expanse of Vapors, which has been confirmed to be Scadrial. If you match up the map of Shadesmar with Nazh's map, it looks like Thaylenah (the Thaylen Sea in Shadesmar) is located above the Nexus of Imagination. The Caretaker of Laughter and Salumon the Third Tower therefore appear to be very close to the Expanse of Vapors/Scadrial. I wonder if the Caretaker of Laughter is dangerous specifically because of its proximity to the Scadrian border in Shadesmar? Alternatively, others have theorized for years that the Nexus of Imagination may be Braize, which could explain why an area in Shadesmar close to that region would be marked as "avoid at all costs."
  10. As someone who edited the Coppermind for the first time today, I would advise you to not take that as established canon until we get official confirmation from Brandon.
  11. I'm not much of a crier - I've only cried twice in the past 7 years (that's not a "oh look at me how macho", it's just not how I emotionally respond to things). But I will say that SA has given me many "lump in the throat" moments, which is definitely the closest that any piece of literature, film, or television has made me come to crying. In WoK: Kaladin's speech to Bridge Four in Chapter 53 (Dunny) when he's trying to treat the wounds of a fallen bridgeman was one of the most impactful things I've ever read, and was the moment that Kal became my favorite character in the series. In WoR, the final reveal that Shallan's father actually protected her from her murderous mother also hit me really hard. In OB, there were a lot of emotional moments, but I actually didn't feel a ton of impact in the last hundred pages - I think while Brandon did a good job of adding moments of levity via Lift and Nightblood, it also reduced the emotional impact of the more serious moments because of how frenetic the pacing was throughout the battle in Thaylen City. For me, the most impactful moments by far were Rock's reunion with his family (ALL THE FEELS), Kaladin's paralysis as his friends were killing each other in Kholinar, and two of Dalinar's flashbacks after Evi's death (the first, where Renarin comforts him and he breaks down crying, and the second, where he apologizes to Adolin for being a bad father, were just absolutely heartbreaking). All four of those moments made me swallow hard.
  12. 1) Well, Honor definitely did leave splinters around before his death, as did Odium (we have WoB that Honorspren and the Unmade are splinters of Honor and Odium, respectively). But I think it's a bit disingenuous to say we have no evidence that Odium splintered Honor. Tanavast literally told Dalinar that Odium killed him. Odium himself says in OB that he can't leave around the Splinters of Honor like he once thought. And the way that the Stormfather speaks about his confrontation with Odium strongly implies he has seen the effects of Odium splintering a shard before: "I could have been destroyed, though. Splintered into a thousand pieces. I live only because the enemy fears exposing himself to a strike from Cultivation." I mostly agree on the rest of your points, though - I find it hard to believe that Unity is actually a new shard, and think it's much likelier that it is part of a bondsmith ideal. As for the "We," I also tend to agree with the idea that "We killed you" refers to "[me and Dalinar] killed [Evi]."
  13. Well, I don't think the prose in SA is particularly difficult for an adolescent or kid to read, but I've found that a lot of the younger readers of SA have a hard time understanding some of the character development or emotional impact of certain events, largely due to a lack of life experience. For example, I had a rather frustrating back and forth with a younger reader earlier this year who despised the heralds because of their betrayal of Honor and the oathpact, and he just could not comprehend what sustained torture can do to a person's mental and emotional state, despite repeated attempts at explanation from myself and other 17th sharders.
  14. I don't think so, the Stormstriders seem to be something different. Dalinar seems multiple in the storm in one of his OB flashbacks, so it can't just be one spren.
  15. So, after much speculation, it turns out that Tezim is indeed Ishar, Herald of the Bondsmiths. As discussed in the two threads below (where I've compiled most of the textual references to Ishar and Tezim), it seems fairly clear that the Herald is quite mad. The Stormfather seems to confirm this in OB: We know from Edgedancer that Nale received faulty information (that massacring surgebinders would prevent another desolation) from Ishar, yet seems to trust him deeply even by the end of Oathbringer, long after he knew Ishar was wrong. Furthermore, he oddly claims that Ishar is the only herald who survived their torture in damnation with his mind intact: And interestingly, Ash's first instinct upon seeing Taln's fleeting sanity is to go to Ishar for help: So, despite the fact that Ishar seems to be gallivanting about as a capricious, self-absorbed warlord god in his spare time, has blatantly lied to Nale multiple times, and came up with the idea of condemning Taln to 4 millennia of solitary torture in the first place, the heralds still trust him deeply. The question is, why? I see a few options. 1) Nale and Ash are also insane, and therefore unable to see Ishar for the man he has become, so they trust him as the Bondsmith Herald (and I think it's fair to speculate that came with some kind of leadership position) and mastermind they knew and fought alongside for thousands of years. 2) Ishar is sane, but has betrayed Honor and allied with Odium, perhaps because he has come to believe that he was always on the wrong side of the fight. With the knowledge that surgebinding destroyed the humans' world before their mass relocation to Roshar, I think this line from Words of Radiance makes much more sense: It seems Ishar was always wary of granting surgebinding to men, knowing full well how poorly that had worked out before. After seeing the death of Honor, the recreance, and finally breaking at Aharietiam, he may have decided that men were not worthy - or too dangerous - to live on Roshar. He is thus working to kill or turn the other heralds - for example, I believe the Odium-knife that killed Jezrien may have been created with help or knowledge from Ishar (I find it highly suspicious that Odium was never able to permanently kill the Heralds in all the thousands of years and many desolations he endured, and now suddenly discovered that ability). Nale was convinced to severely hobble the forces of Honor on Ishar's advice, and he seems to have decided to support the Parsh upon visiting Ishar between Edgedancer and OB. 3) Ishar is insane, but has moments of lucidity when speaking to the other heralds, and has not betrayed Honor. He may genuinely have believed that killing surgebinders would prevent a desolation, but was simply incorrect - as we've heard so many times, this desolation is distinctly different from all the others that came before. I'm sure there are tons of other possibilities I haven't thought of, but I buy heavily into the idea that Ishar has turned to Odium's side. I do think by the end of the first half of SA Ishar will be a prominent antagonist, and we'll see just how influential he's been behind the scenes. Thoughts?