Ryder

There's also this quote about Vivenna from the chapter 37 Warbreaker annotations: Given the various WoB's, I'd be extremely surprised if Sanderson used rape to give Jasnah a tragic backstory.

This is a side note from the main discussion, but I've often wondered if Honor gave the Heralds something like the Kandra Blessing of Presence when he turned them into cognitive shadows. No idea how that would work, but we know it's possible to magically give someone increased mental fortitude and resistance to madness. Otherwise I agree, I don't see how anyone, no matter how noble, could withstand centuries of torture. And maybe the Heralds abandoning the Oathpact or Honor's death has caused the effect to go haywire which could be related to their collective madness.

Well part of the issue is that as Mr. T grows in intellect his ability to empathize decreases correspondingly (as I understand it). I agree it is a really neat contrast though to see the difference between pure intellect, if you can call it that, and intelligence tempered with empathy. Plus Jasnah can be pretty cold too. She was willing to assassinate Aesudan, and assuming Renarin's predictions are usually correct she probably came pretty close to killing him!

In addition to Nightblood, I think the scene where Syl kills the spren that's tormenting Gavinor at the end of the Kholinar sequence is forshadowing shardblades somehow being able to kill Fused. I'm guessing becoming a Fused is like becoming a Regal except with the soul/cognitive shadow of one of the old singers inhabiting the gemheart instead of a voidspren. If Syl can "kill" a spren (whatever that means), she should be able to kill the Fused soul. The question of course is what happens to the Fused soul after the gemheart is broken? They don't return to Braize, but do they go to the Everstorm? The cognitive realm? I think if you could find one outside of a gemheart, Syl or other blades (maybe only live ones?) could kill them. The KR will need something that can keep them dead eventually, as Nightblood is only one sword.

Actually the plague in the Purelake is just the common cold, which was brought over by the three worldhoppers in the interlude. I am interested to learn more about the magic fish though!

There's also some precedent for this with accessing the surges too. Kaladin is able to use both Gravitation and Adhesion pretty consistently after saying his second oath, and Lift is able to use both the Edgedancer surges after saying her second oath. Nale tells Szeth however that Skybreakers only get access to Division after their third oath. I assume Skybreakers also get their sword after the third oath, but I can't remember if that's mentioned explicitly or not.

Also on Nalthis the Returned have some sort of foresight related to their interpretations of the paintings. Warbreaker spoiler's below.

Well Roshar's gravity is 0.7G, but I don't think we know anything close to that specific about Ashyn or Braize. It's probably not worth reading into too much, but the star chart for the Rosharan system shows the three planets as approximately the same size. In the charts for the other systems there's some variation in planet size apparent, so I would think that if there were a dramatic difference Isaac would have drawn it that way.

I believe there's a comment in Kaza's interlude that people used to go to the Aimians on Akinah to get soulcasters. Perhaps there's still a large store of them there. I don't know if that's simply because they had access to lots of gemhearts from greatshells going there to die or if there are other reasons. My pet theory is that perhaps there used to be some sort of artifabrian university or center of knowledge at Akinah. Clearly it was important enough to be given an oathgate, and I think if you gave a bunch of nearly immortal bug people a steady supply of large gemhearts they could come up with some pretty advanced technology. Assuming Aimians were never knights radiant like the parshendi, it would make sense for them to explore other means of accessing the surges.

I don’t know if I agree with that. I thought maybe the same thing, but surely after the Urithiru contingent got the message about Kholinar falling Jasnah or someone with the Jezrien’s honorblade would have tried to get to Kholinar just to see. Plus, doesn’t it mention in part five that Taravangian and his crew get on boats and sail back to Kharbranth just before the battle? I’m assuming that Malata is with him when they leave Thaylen City.

This is a little bit of a necro, but I just finished my re-read, and I’m still confused by this. How did Malata et al get to Kholinar so quickly? It would make more sense to me if they used the Kharbranth oathgate to get to Urithiru, but would they be able to get a bunch of singers into the city without drawing the attention of the local people?

I agree this sounds like it's from the perspective of the KR, but I've wondered if it might refer to Ash's response to the death of Jezrien: The "shard of my soul" would then be talking about the connection between the souls of the heralds being severed. This might also hold as I'm guessing more heralds will be killed off in future books, so it might be a response to the death of a herald that we haven't seen yet.

Great first post! Anyway, since aluminum can be soulcast I suspect Roshar will have easier and earlier access to it than other worlds with respect to their effective technological level, especially once Lightweavers/Elsecallers become more common. The five scholars could probably have acquired aluminum on Roshar without too much difficulty, although it's not clear that Rosharans had much use for aluminum in the past. That doesn't answer how the scholars knew about aluminum's strange interactions with investiture/magic systems. To my knowledge we haven't seen any interaction between aluminum and awakening other than Nightblood's sheath.

It does seem fitting that the patron herald of the order noted as being erratic, capricious, frustrating, and unreliable would be late to a meeting

I like the idea of one of the oathgate spren being some sort of supercharged Inkspren, as they are one of the spren that grant transportation. One of the oathgate spren is described as being black and oil-slicky, which sounds just like how Ivory is described. The problem I have with the other spren being a Willshaper spren, which would make sense from the transportation surge perspective, is that it's heavily implied (I don't think confirmed though) that the lightspren/reachers are the Willshaper spren. They look like copper statues, and the second (non-corrupted) oathgate spren is described as being white and kind of pearlescent I think.

@Brightlord Brooding Eyes and @aemetha, here’s the WoB I’m basing my earlier comment on:

One thing that's mentioned by Notum is that the Honorspren might be able to break Kaladin's bond with Syl without killing him until he's sworn the fifth ideal. This doesn't say what any other effects of the fifth ideal might be, but it does indicate that it results in the bond between them being so strong that nothing can break it other than death or the KR rejecting their oaths entirely. As far as being invested enough to provide their own stormlight, I feel like this would be too OP. I can't find it at the moment, but I remember somewhere in OB that Kaladin notices he doesn't need as much stormlight as he used to. I think the radiants will naturally become more efficient as they practice and progress through the oaths, but it would be too strong if they weren't limited by stormlight. Plus, that's part of what made the Heralds so powerful: they were powered directly by Honor through the honorblades so they presumable had near unlimited power for surgebinding while Honor lived. I think it makes a better story if that kind of power is limited to the Heralds or while in the middle of a highstorm.

I think this is supported by a WoB: The last part implies to me that Ishar only became the god-king and started trying to conquer Emul once he realized another desolation might occur.

I'm having trouble finding a good source for this, but IIRC Warbreaker happens at around the same time as the first mistborn trilogy. Then the Wax and Wayne books take place about 300 years after the Catacendre and are happening during the time jump between stormlight books 5 and 6. That puts Azure as somewhere between 250-300 years old at this point I think. Also, Vivenna mentions while they're in Shadesmar that she arrived on Roshar about a year ago. We do know that Vasher arrived on Roshar with Nightblood, and then they got separated somehow afterwards. Vasher came to Roshar mainly because it's easier for him to get stormlight than breath.

I think the powercreep in OB could be countered somewhat by other types of fused. As far as I can remember, we've only seen one combat oriented type of fused so far, the flying ones, plus a few thunderclasts. We know of at least smokeform, nightform, and decayform, which all sound pretty nasty. I'm guessing as the singers begin to consolidate their positions in the other kingdoms and start conquering the surrounding areas we'll see new dangerous types of fused. Plus Shallan mentions that Re-Shephir could have killed all of them in their encounter beneath Urithiru, but instead wanted to learn. What happens when she really lets loose? Similarly we don't really know anything about Chemoarish, Dai-gonarthis, or Ba-Ado-Mishram yet and how they might counter the growing powers of the knights. In the previous desolations the KR were fully staffed, had the heralds on their side, and humanity was still nearly destroyed. I think we've only begun to see the sort of powers Odium is going to bring to bear on Roshar.

I think it's possible that time manipulation is a surge of some sort. Maybe it's only granted by certain types of voidspren. Moelach sends visions of the future. Nightform does as well: Glys, having been corrupted by Sja-anat, allows Renarin to see the future, and as noted in this thread something in the Kholinar palace seems to be messing with time in a weird way. My main evidence for time being a surge is this quote from the Stormfather in OB chapter 16:

I think it's possible Odium is referring to Adonalsium here, but I think it's more likely Honor. The Fused Rine also uses "we" when talking about the "enemy", presumably Honor. If this interpretation is correct then Rine includes himself in the group that killed Honor, so perhaps the Fused and/or ancient listeners worked with Odium somehow when Honor was killed.

I just skimmed through Rock's chapter and couldn't find this? There are plenty of windspren around and the Honorspren who show up as well, but I didn't find any that were paying special attention to Rock. Even if I missed it though, it would kindof make sense as Rock is a windrunner squire if nothing else. I just think he fits in with the edgedancers, especially given their second ideal being some version of "I will remember those who have been forgotten." Rock had adopted Hobber, Dabbid, and Huio as cooks, all some form of outcasts. He helps Renarin feel more at ease and sends him off to help Rlain, the most forgotten person in bridge four.

I think Rock is on the way to becoming an edgedancer. His character fits with the edgedancer's divine attributes of loving and healing. Jasnah mentions that only about 1 in 3 radiants fought, so there would be plenty of jobs for him that wouldn't include killing. I think he would make a great battlefield medic. Plus, we know that edgedancers were traditionally the most refined of the KR (Lift notwithstanding), and Rock's skill and finesse cooking fits with that. I think it would be interesting from a story perspective to have a member of bridge four become something other than a windrunner. Also, if he becomes an edgedancer he can team up with and feed Lift! (And also Adolin, since I'm in the camp that thinks he will eventually revive Maya and somehow become and edgedancer as well)