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      Oathbringer is out! Let's make our policy on spoilers clear! 1. You must preface topics with Oathbringer spoilers with the prefix [OB] in the front 2. You are only allowed to post spoilers and spoiler topics in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board, Cosmere Theories, and some select work-related forums. 3. For posts in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board you do not need to use spoiler tags inside a topic marked [OB]. For Cosmere Theories, you also do not need to put spoiler tags inside your topic if the topic has [OB] in the title. However, for Cosmere Theories, if you are adding Oathbringer stuff to an old theory without the [OB] tag, those must go in spoiler tags and you must make it obvious outside the spoiler tag that the spoiler is regarding Oathbringer content. 4. For select things that do require talking about OB spoilers, in Events, Coppermind, and Arcanum forums, those are allowed but keep OB spoilers in spoiler tags 5. Avoid and minimize spoilers in topic titles--even though those two boards will not appear in the Recent Topics ticker, topic titles still appear in Recent Activity and the forum home.  6. You aren't allowed to post Oathbringer spoilers in places other than listed, even with spoiler tags.  It will be nine months and then the Oathbringer board will be re-merged with the Stormlight board and you will not need to tag these spoilers. If you'd like to move something in the Stormlight Archive board to the Oathbringer board, to update it with new Oathbringer information, Report the post and we will happily move it to the Oathbringer spoiler board. Part-by-part Reactions Though the Oathbringer Spoiler Board will be very spoilery, very fast (maybe don't come there until you've read the book, as people do have copies that bookstores sold early), you'll have these five topics for reactions if you want to nerd out: Part 1 Reactions
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  1. 50 points
    So let’s talk Renarin, shall we? Now, if you fine folks are anything like myself, you might have found yourself confused by some of the reveals that Oathbringer brought about regarding Renarin and his powers. This was a twist that I saw coming a long way off, and so I was more than ready when we found out that Renarin had been affected by a voidish corruption and that this was the reason for his strange and ominous visions. If you’d like to see how WoR foreshadowed this moment, you can check out my theory Renarin’s Visions and Truthwatching and see all the reasoning for this twist. However, what I want to do here today is get into the nitty gritty of what’s really going on. Is Renarin a Voidbinder or a Surgebinder or both? Is Glys a Voidspren? How do the visions work? How did this happen? All those good questions are the ones that I’d like to try to tackle here. Theory Disclaimer: Most of these things have not been confirmed in canon and Brandon has been cagey about answering or confirming. However, this explanation is the one which seems most plausible to me based on the evidence at hand. So let me do a bullet point run-down of what I think is happening: Glys is actually a valid Truthwatcher spren, not a voidspren. Renarin is a valid Truthwatcher Radiant and therefore a Surgebinder with access to the surges of Progression and Illumination. Renarin uses Stormlight to power his surges, just like other Radiants. Glys has been corrupted by the Unmade Sja-anat. As a result of this corruption, in addition to his normal Truthwatcher powers, Renarin is afflicted by involuntary visions of the future which neither he nor Glys can control. The points above are those that I feel are fairly concrete, and I’ll go into the reasoning behind those ideas later below. However, upon this assumed situation, I believe that the following ideas are viable possibilities. The following points are less certain than those above, but these are the ideas that seem the most plausible to me, given the circumstances: The powers that the Fused display are expressions of Voidbinding. Renarin’s future visions are possibly also an expression of Voidbinding, but his other powers are not. If Renarin’s Voidbinding and Fused Voidbinding work in the same way, it is possible that all Voidbinding powers come from the influence of the Unmade, in that Sja-anat can grant Voidish future visions while other Unmade grant different powers, like illusions, frictionlessness, or gravity, as we see other Fused use. And upon these assumptions, we find several questions arise regarding the nature of the situation: If both Renarin and the Fused are Voidbinders, is a spren involved in the granting of Voidbinding powers to the Fused in the same way they were granted to Renarin? If Voidish powers are each affiliated with an Unmade, why are there seemingly 10 powers on the Voidbinding chart if there are only 9 Unmade? Does Odium grant a Bondsmith equivalent himself? If Voidbinding powers are not granted by the Unmade, how are they gained? In what way are Renarin and the Fused similar in situation that grants them the same powers? What caused the hypergraphia that accompanied the visions of the Everstorm, and why does that no longer happen when Renarin gets visions? All of which are fascinating, but unfortunately, more likely to get a RAFO than an answer in a signing line. The first I have already asked and been RAFO’d and I believe the others are going to be answered similarly, if attempted. If I had to guess, these are reveals that will happen in Renarin’s flashback book. Considering that book is in the back five, we’ve probably got a while to wait. Alas. Regardless, no use fretting over the information we don’t have when it’s so much more fun to dissect the information we do have. And Oathbringer certainly gave us plenty to dissect. So, let’s take the situation that I’ve outlined above and break it down with some textual evidence to help explain where these ideas come from. Glys the Truthwatcher spren and Renarin the Radiant This is one of the easiest points to guess, considering the wealth of information we have on the topic. A lot of this is due to the Renarin point of view chapters in Part 5. (Thank you, Brandon, I owe you my soul for those.) Renarin’s surges seem to work perfectly normally. He heals people with Regrowth at several points in the novel, fairly naturally. I believe we see a slight, unconscious use of Illumination in the scene with Adolin and Gallant, when Renarin makes a perfected vision of Adolin appear. Renarin also mentions trying to train with Shallan in using Illumination, but he has difficulty with it. Now, it could be assumed that Renarin’s failure to grasp Illumination is a sign that his surges are wrong, and yet I think this is simply another example of a Radiant finding one surge more easy to pick up than another. Shallan is naturally better at Illumination than Transformation. Lift is better at Abrasion than Progression. It seems common enough that Radiants have an affinity for one of their surges over the other. For Renarin, I believe this is that Progression is easier than Illumination. In addition to his surges, Renarin’s other expressions of Radiant abilities seem normal. Glys is able to form as a Shardblade, which no one deems as looking out of the ordinary. It also functions to open Oathgates. His healing factor works as the other Radiants’, albeit augmented by his power of Progression to make healing extremely rapid. Most tellingly, his powers use Stormlight, just as all the others do. Ivory says that there is a rightness to the bond between Renarin and Glys and that spren of Odium should not be able to bond with humans under normal circumstances. Through all of these things, one can assume that Renarin and Glys have a valid Nahel bond and are bonded as Radiant and spren, just as the others are. Sja-anat’s Corruption However, in addition to the normal suite of a Truthwatcher’s powers and the Nahel bond, there is another factor in the mix: Sja-anat. When Sja-anat speaks with Shallan she speaks of her son when telling Shallan that she is not an enemy, as though he would vouch for her. This is undoubtedly Glys. It’s interesting to note that this seems to indicate that Glys is working with Sja-anat, possibly willingly. Perhaps she approached a Radiant spren hoping that by giving changing one of them, she would have an ally who would help the Radiants trust her. Or perhaps it’s something else. Hard to say at this point. Regardless, it is because of this that Renarin can see the future, and why he is consumed with visions. Though it is possible that other Truthwatchers have a manner of foresight, I don’t believe it would manifest as Renarin’s does. Ivory states that future sight is a power of Odium, as the Vorins believe. I believe Sja-anat has been hoping to swap sides and is using Glys as a way to do it, as well as helping Shallan instead of killing them when they went through the Oathgate. Voidbinding So in the end, what is Voidbinding? Hard to say with certainty, since despite how often we see Voidbinders, there doesn’t seem to be a lot of answers about it. Working under the assumption that the Fused’s powers are Voidbinding we can see a few things, at least: Voidbinding seems to line up with surges in many cases, as we see Fused manipulating gravity and friction, just like Kaladin and Lift. It’s hard to tell if this means that Renarin’s corrupted sight is also a form of Voidbinding as well, since it doesn’t seem to line up with a Surge the way the others are. The Listener Song of Secrets speaks of Nightform, a form of power which can see the future, which seems as though it might be more similar to what Renarin can do than anything else we’ve seen. The question is, Renarin is getting his void-powers from a corrupted spren, but I don’t believe that the Fused have a corrupted spren giving them powers, which initially made me think that Renarin’s visions were not Voidbinding like the Fused. Now, I’m not so sure. For the moment, I think I will lean toward the idea that Renarin’s visions and the powers of the Fused are both Voidbinding somehow, even if we don’t have details to confirm anything either way. There’s just not enough answers for the moment. Time will tell. If anyone can get answers out of Brandon regarding this topic, I’d be greatly appreciative but I doubt he’s going to answer things. Conclusion There’s a lot that we just don’t know yet, but I’m excited to see where this goes in the future. For now, this is my best guess at what’s really going on until we get some more information on all of it. One thing that hasn’t changed is that I adore Renarin with all of my heart and somehow Brandon continues to write his plotline and character arc in ways which are intensely fascinating to me. Oathbringer has been a triumph and I can’t wait to see what’s in store!
  2. 41 points
    Oathbringer has given us a much more in-depth look at Odium's forces, particularly the Unmade. Unquestionably, one of the most interesting of the Unmade is Ba-Ado-Mishram. This is a promising villain. The mindless Unmade are terrifying enough, let alone an Unmade that commanded Odium's troops. Surely she has to be a major villain in this book series. However, a question remains. Where is she? Both of these are possibilities. However, returning to Damnation seems unlikely, the rest of the Unmade seem fairly active. We've seen evidence that Nergaoul, Moelach, and Chemoarish have remained active, if subtle during the Era of Solitude. In fact, we know that it is impossible that Ba-Ado-Mishram was destroyed during Aharietiam or returned to Braize afterward. These epigraphs are from the gemstones left behind in Urithiru, from around the time of its abandonment before the Recreance. So Ba-Ado-Mishram was still alive around the time of the False Desolation, allowing the singers to take on the forms of power and providing Voidlight. A strike team went to go to imprison her, and nothing has been heard of her since. Since the arrival of the Everstorm, she has made no appearance at either Kholinar or the Battle of Thaylen Fields, the two largest direct conflicts so far. So it seems possible that they succeeded. So, if she is imprisoned, where could she be? We know that she is crafty and that she provides Voidlight, which seems to have been entirely absent in Roshar since her imprisonment. With one notable exception. Gavilar's dark spheres have long been a subject of discussion. Some have considered the possibility that those spheres contain Unmade. Given what we've seen this book, I consider that to be unlikely. We have at least six of the Unmade accounted for, with only Dai-gonarthis, Chemoarish, and Ba-Ado-Mishram absent. What are the odds that Gavilar happens to have two perfect gems each containing an Unmade and that he values them so little that he's willing to give them away? The most simple explanation is that these spheres are charged with Voidlight. Where could Gavilar have gotten it from? The easiest answer prior to the Everstorm and the new Desolation is that he got it from Ba-Ado-Mishram. Gavilar seems to give additional credence to that idea. The spren he refers to must be Ba-Ado-Mishram. How does he know about this? He's presumably seeing the same visions that Dalinar did (I'm making the assumption that he bonded the Stormfather because there is no evidence so far of a connection between Gavilar and the Nightwatcher and the Sibling remains elusive). Dalinar knows nothing about the capture of Ba-Ado-Mishram from his visions, so how does Gavilar? Gavilar has long seemed to know things he shouldn't. He even mentions a new storm here, something that did not appear in Dalinar's visions (one may make an argument about the destruction of Kholinar vision, but that doesn't match the description of the Everstorm, more like a metaphorical wave of destruction in my opinion). Gavilar has also taken the Stormfather's visions in a much darker direction than Dalinar, trying to trigger the Desolation to unite Roshar rather than prevent it in the first place. It has long seemed to me that he may have been in contact with some sort of nefarious force that was manipulating him to its own ends. The fact that Gavilar has Voidlight, implies that he was at some point in contact with Ba-Ado-Mishram, who has the ability to provide Voidlight. Even if Gavilar was not being manipulated, he must have come in contact with Ba-Ado-Mishram to gain the Voidlight and perhaps learn about how she was imprisoned. So the question remains, where is she? The Fused are destroying a portion of the palace for a specific reason. I believe that the reason is that Ba-Ado-Mishram is imprisoned somewhere within or below the palace in Kholinar. Gavilar as a budding Bondsmith came into contact with her somehow and she spoke to him and gave him Voidlight. Gavilar may have intended to release her to trigger the Desolation or he may have been following her instructions to start it some other way. The question remains, why was she imprisoned beneath the palace? Well, when the ancient Radiants captured her, they needed to put her somewhere. Urirthiru is the obvious choice, however the city was failing by that point. The Radiants were abandoning it in droves. Where else could they put the prison? Perhaps in the capital city of Alethela, the ancestral homeland of the Radiants? Where else could have been better defended? When the Radiants fell, this knowledge was lost and the location of Ba-Ado-Mishram's prison was forgotten. The Fused focused on taking Kholinar first to ensure the return of their finest leader, who will become a real problem for humankind in the next few books.
  3. 38 points
    Previously, in ​Way of Kings….. First off, this actually happened to me this morning. Kaladin sees someone unexpected in the sky. Teft makes a strange and disconcerting discovery. Jasnah gives Shallan a philosophy lesson. Brother Kabsal reveals his sense of humor. Bridge Four is under new management.
  4. 37 points
    Preface: The most part of it is solidly grounded in facts and WoBs. You can rely on it. Some part of it is reasonable speculation, so you should not treat is as a fact, but like a theory. Sorry it's so long. The Letters. The one in The Way of Kings was written by Hoid to Frost (WoB), and the one in Words of Radiance was Frost's response to Hoid. The Letters are written after events of First Mistborn Era (WoB). In Oathbringer we got three: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Letters#Oathbringer_Letters What can we conclude about the identities of the writers and recipient? Well, the first thing is that two of them are adressed to Cephandrius - known as Hoid's alias - and the Third to "Dear Friend", but it's commonly assumed it's also adressed to Hoid. The Third writer almost certainly is Harmony. But my interests are in the First and Second. First, some WoBs on the topic: What are the Shards we have seen or know of? Autonomy (Vessel: Bavadin) Ambition (Vessel: Uli Da - WoBs: #1 #2) Devotion (Vessel: Aona) Dominion (Vessel: Skai) Harmony - Ruin & Preservation (Vessel: Sazed) Endowment (Vessel: Edgli) Honor (Vessel: Tanavast) Cultivation Odium (Vessel: Rayse) Survival Shard - unknown Shard that just wants to hide and survive the Shard not on a planet (NOT the Survival Shard - although take note that it's not impossible for the Survival Shard to be not on a planet) The last two are questionable, as Brandon may be refering to the knowledge from books and not necessarily from WoBs. But then we have another WoB that will help us narrow down the identity of the first writer: What are the worlds we have seen? Taldain Sel Scadrial Nalthis Roshar (depending on how you understand "have seen" - also Ashyn and Braize) Threnody First of the Sun Well, this excludes Shard not on a planet and possibly Ambition, as Ambition is not on Threnody. I also doubt the Shard that is hiding is on the First of the Sun, but we'll get to that later. With Harmony having written the Third and the First Letter mentioning Rayse, Aona, Skai and Uli Da by name, we're left with: Autonomy Endowment Honor (dead and Splintered) Cultivation Judging by the fact that the Letter is supposedly a response for Hoid's plea for help against Rayse and that the writer is dissapointed that so few of the Shards kept to the agreement of not interfering with each other, we can also remove Cultivation. Which leaves us with two possible candidates: Autonomy Endowment If we believe Khriss words in Taldain essay about Autonomy's interference with other planets, it leaves us with Endowment as having written the First Letter. The Third Letter is written almost certainly by Harmony (I say that just because Brandon did not outright confirm that in a WoB but I doubt it's not Harmony). Second Letter So we need to update our list of who might have written the Second Letter. It also mentions Rayse, so we can cross out Odium: Autonomy (Vessel: Bavadin) Ambition (Vessel: Uli Da - WoBs: #1 #2) Devotion (Vessel: Aona) Dominion (Vessel: Skai) Honor (Vessel: Tanavast) Cultivation Survival Shard - unknown Shard that just wants to hide and survive the Shard not on a planet (NOT the Survival Shard - although take note that it's not impossible for the Survival Shard to be not on a planet) Well, that's still a lot, isn't it? Well, let's assume that these Letters are really responses to Hoid's plea for help against Odium. It doesn't make sense then that he'd write to Rosharan Shards. We can cross out Cultivation and Honor (who is also very, very, very dead at the time of Oathbringer). The Letter in The Way of Kings also mentions Aona and Skai being dead and their Shards Splintered, so I think we can reasonably assume nobody has Ascended to them since. Which leaves us with... Autonomy (Vessel: Bavadin) Ambition (Vessel: Uli Da - WoBs: #1 #2) Survival Shard - unknown Shard that just wants to hide and survive the Shard not on a planet (NOT the Survival Shard - although take note that it's not impossible for the Survival Shard to be not on a planet) At that point there is no much to go off of - unless we assume Brandon in that first WoB up there at the beginning of this wall of text meant the Shards we know from books, not WoBs. Which leaves us with only two: Autonomy and Ambition. I'm gonna analyse each separately. But first, a WoB on the topic: The line "That one is even closer associated with a Shard, the actual Investiture of the magic." probably refers to an earlier WoB in that event which confirmed that all Investiture in Cosmere is associated with a Shard, even if it was not on Yolen on the time of the Shattering. It got assigned to Shards, but it's not part of what the Vessel of the Shard commands. Two important things that we can take from this WoB: First of the Sun has Investiture that is directly associated with a Shard and the island Patji is a Shard. With big asterisk. one of the letters in Oathbringer references First of the Sun Reading through the letters, the only one left that can reference any place is the Second Letter. (Unless we take " I noticed your many intrusions into my land " from the First Letter as reference to First of the Sun, but that's another can of worms, one I do not intend to open). It's either the place the writer is or the Obrodai that's being referenced. For now, let's analyse possibilities of Autonomy and Ambition. Autonomy Certainly a fan favorite, if I may say so. Many of us believe it's Autonomy, and there are certain clues that point to it, although some of that fierce conviction seems to be based on the assumption that the Shard assaulting Scadrial during the Second Mistborn Era is Autonomy. Not an unreasonable assumption, given what we know of Autonomy meddling with other worlds (if Khriss essay on Taldain is to be believed), having multiple religions or having entire pantheons where every worshipped god is actually Bavadin. Especially the last one seems to point in that direction, when you remember that the islands that Patji is part of are called Pantheon. Some people believe that Autonomy's modus operandi of creating personas is the reason for why the Letter is written by a collective. It's reasonable, but personally I doubt it - there's one thing in crafting personas and letting them attract attention, but it's not a reason for Autonomy to actually be a mind collective. Which leads us to... Ambition That is my favorite. Yes, Uli Da is dead, and Ambition is Splintered (WoB). But... Splintering can be a vague term sometimes. And we've seen Ambition's influence (which most of us ascribe to Shades of Threnody) and things that happened with Ambition have had ramifications across many places in the cosmere. Recently Brandon added that "this specific Splintering has had far-reaching effects" (WoB). From essay on First of the Sun we know Khriss is certain there is no Shard there... but her essays are more contemporary (sometime after Ascension of Harmony, and definitely long before Sixth of the Dusk happens: #1 #2) and she does not know what we know about First of the Sun: #1 #2. That is weird: ... since now Brandon has stated that Patji is a Shard. (With big asterisk). Hm... What if Ambition is not on a planet... what if it's on planets? What if Ambition's Splinters - maybe larger than the usual Splinters like spren or seons or skaze, but instead massive like Unmade, Nightwatcher or even Stormfather - have formed a collective mind? It would explain why the writer is speaking like a group. Let's see what is said in the Letter: It implies mutliple beings. They are hiding part of their being on a world and were surprised and are intrigued how Hoid has managed to locate them there. It would explain why Khriss is certain there is no Shard there - there is just a Splinter and it actively hides its presence. They have many realms. They wish to be alone. They do not believe in interfering with another Shards - does it fit the meddling Autonomy? I don't think so. Admiration of his initiative - it would be strange if it's Ambition, right? Since Odium has mortally wounded Ambition. But... Preservation admired Rashek just because he did not change. Even though he was a tyrant and responsible for many deaths, it was a quality to be admired. Why then cannot Ambition admire Odium's initiative and will to act? They have claimed a world - for me it fits Ambition to claim multiple worlds, to add it to their many realms. If it was Autonomy, why an avatar is beginning to manifest? Autonomy's personas are more of a masks Bavadin dons. And the new avatar was instilled with some preference - it suggests truly another mind, part of Ambition's collective, and not just a persona Autonomy uses. This reeks of Ambition to me - for Hoid to be deemed worthy of further communication, he must prove himself by overcoming tests (perhaps getting to Patji's eye?). It's only fitting that one can earn Ambition's respect by overcoming obstacles - it's a proof of your determination, will to act, drive... ambition. tl;dr: Harmony almost certainly wrote the Third Letter, the First one was written likely by Endowment and Second Letter was written either by Autonomy or Ambition (and I personally think the latter).
  5. 34 points
    Previously on ​Way of Kings….. A bad decision causes trouble for Jasnah and Shallan. Debate students have a name for Amaram's thought process. And now, for the interludes. Dalinar has another vision…. ….and Renarin has good ideas.
  6. 30 points
    Dalinar: Do you have a weapon? Lift: Nope. Can't read. I loled
  7. 29 points
    Preface: Someone correct me if I'm breaking any rules here, as I just made my account a couple hours ago. I posted this theory on a King T discussion thread, but I'm thinking that it was a little off topic since that discussion was about T as a character and this is a theory about the Diagram. So pardon my ignorance if this is a breach of etiquette! Theory: The Diagram is Fake I think the Diagram itself is part of the subterfuge. As others have pointed out, the original concept of "make a deal to protect my kingdom, then become king of everything" is so simple, that I believe Odium was meant to see through it. In order for the bluff to work though, you have to make it look like you're trying, hence the takeover of JKeved. If T was so brilliant when he made the Diagram, then it stands to reason that he was smart enough to realize that Odium would be able to read/interpret it. That is the entire point. It is a classic misdirection, just on a grand scale. It's all meant to bait Odium into certain actions, presumably to put Him in a position to be vulnerable. It also stands to reason that genius T knew that Odium would never negotiate on one of T's smart days. So why put in the "negotiate from a position of strength" line? It's part of the misdirection. If Odium is confident that T and the Diagram are not a threat, then He is much more likely to let his guard down. T is playing the Severus Snape role. We are going to hate him for a long time and he is going to do some awful things. In the end though, it will be his actions that ultimately make Odium vulnerable to be defeated by someone else. Basically, I just don't accept the narrative of "Odium saw through the Diagram, therefore it is moot and T is now a traitor." Genius T knew that would happen and planned for it
  8. 29 points
    Although WoK has been out for some time, I'm going to put all climax-related memes and commentary in spoilers. When we last left our heroes….
  9. 26 points
  10. 24 points
    I thought it might be fun to write our own scenes for the 1 year time gap between Oathbringer and book 4. Here's mine. It will of course be a Lift scene, because, it's mine! Please add your own. "Okay, it's been three weeks since Thaylenah, you've all had a chance to begin your assignments, and I need to know what progress you've made. Captain Kal..." Dalinar began. "Umm..." interrupted Lift. "Yes Lift?" asked Dalinar "Maybe we should break, you know, for lunch and stuff." suggested Lift. "Lift, we literally just ate breakfast. Right now. Shallan is still chewing hers, and the plates have not been cleared off the table." replied Dalinar. "Yeah" said Lift. "Yeah what?" asked Dalinar. "Yeah, we just ate breakfast" replied Lift. "Okay, I'm glad we sorted that out. Captain Kaladin, could you..." Dalinar began again. "What about lunch?" Lift asked hopefully. Dalinar sighed audibly "Renarin, could you please ask the kitchen staff to send Lift some lunch. Captain Kaladin, how is the training progressing with the new Wind runner recruits?" "Unfortunately sir, there have been some injuries. Nothing life threatening, but a number of recruits will be out of action for several weeks." replied Kaladin. "What happened?" enquired Dalinar. "The Lopen happened." Kaladin responded unenthusiastically. "He thought it would be a good idea to train adhesion by sticking new recruits to the ceiling and seeing who stays up the longest. Apparently it didn't occur to him that the tower has stone storming floors." "Fine." said Dalinar, visibly annoyed now. "We'll move on. Shallan, how is the training of your lightweaver squires progressing." "Umm, not much progress yet. We... I mean... I... umm..." Shallan blushed furiously and glanced at Adolin furtively before mumbling something inaudible. Dalinar rolled his eyes, "Right, well, just don't forget the whole apocalypse thing, okay? Szeth, any progress on the negotiations with Nale? Will he agree to join our side?" "Of course Dalinar-son-god. You have said it must be." replied Szeth. "Damnation, I told you a hundred times. I am not the son of god! Honor isn't even god!" shouted Dalinar. "Of course Dalinar-son-god, if you say it, it cannot be otherwise." replied Szeth characteristically dispassionately. Dalinar took a deep breath and ploughed ahead "So Nale has agreed to come to our side?" "Not yet Dalinar-son-god." replied Szeth. "But you literally JUST said he was coming to our side!" exploded Dalinar. "Yes, you have told me this is true." replied Szeth. "Did you let it back out?" asked Lift. "Let what back out?" asked Dalinar, perplexed. "The red angry thing. You're kind of red and angry. You're old though. Old people are often red and angry. I can't tell." Lift replied, stabbing another pancake with her shardfork. Dalinar slumped back in his chair. "I give up, we're not getting anywhere here. I supposed I can take some solace in the fact that your collective efforts make my attempts at diplomacy look storming inspired by god." "This is only right Dalinar-son-god." replied Szeth, earning a further glare. "Tomorrow, same time. I want to hear actual progress then!" said Dalinar dismissively. "WAIT!" shouted Lift. "Yes Lift?" asked Dalinar. "What about dinner?" she enquired.
  11. 24 points
    The Spiritual Realm is probably the least understood piece of Realmatics within the Cosmere. As such, much of this is speculation upon how the Spirit works. However, I am pretty sure that I am at least onto something with this. To understand the Spiritual Realm, you first must understand Investiture. It is a third state of “Stuff”, like Matter or Energy. But Investiture is first and foremost the “stuff” that constructs the Soul of all things. As such, all things have an aspect in the Physical, Cognitive, and Spiritual realms. All things have a Soul, which is usually called sDNA, or a Spirit-Web. These terms are what define most of this speculation upon the Spiritual Realm. The Spirit Web may be defined as a web that is you, composed of structures that represent yourself, or it may be also explained as threads connecting various Spiritual Ideals, which are also represented in the Spiritual Realm, which come together to form the web that is you. In this, I will attempt to explain multiple functions of the Spirit, some mundane, others magical. This will help to outline how the Spirit actually is affected by daily life, rather than just the dramatic magical events that happen occasionally with our main characters. The Spiritual Realm itself is not a place, like the Cognitive Realm could be defined as being. One can visit the Cognitive Realm, but to our knowledge, the Spiritual Realm has no Where, and therefore you cannot truly be There. It is an infinite and yet an infinitesimal realm. Where and When have no real meaning there, besides some things that I will go into later. I will also go into basically every Cosmere novel to some degree, to address various things there. So, spoilers. Furthermore, this obviously is mainly speculation, even if it is (in my own mind) very educated speculation. If Brandon comes along and says I’m all wrong, then obviously I am wrong. But I don’t think I’m completely off my rocker, so bear with me. First, addressing normal functions of the Spirit Web. As stated before, investiture is the stuff that makes up a soul, and therefore the Spirit Web is made of investiture. The Spirit Web is our perfect ideal. This is reflected in the Light Filter Realmatics model, where the Spiritual Realm is the Light, and the Cognitive Realm filters our perception of the perfect ideal, and the Physical Realm is how that manifests. However, clearly things change. As I addressed in the Spiritual Digestion topic, even in eating things we are changing things. Furthermore, over time our ideals can change, not counting that where do these spiritual ideals even come from in the first place? Clearly, the Spiritual Realm does change, and therefore it is subject to Time. HOWEVER, it is NOT subject to time in the same way the Physical Realm is, or the Cognitive Realm. Instead of it being a 4th dimensional construct like in our own universe, it is more of a 3-dimensional object in the spiritual realm, as much as the Spiritual Realm can even be defined as “3 dimensional.” This is evident in the Spiritual aspect of Fortune, the ability to see the “webs” of the future. This is what Elend sees at the end of HoA, what Kelsier sees in SH, and what Renarin sees in OB. The Spiritual Realm is reminiscent of the “Flame on a String” model, where Time is the string and the present is the flame. The past is set in stone, but there is a myriad of possibilities in the future. Preservation comments on how hard it is to make sense of these futures in SH. Clearly, in this sense, time is represented in the Spiritual Realm, even if the Spiritual Realm itself does not experience Time. This is similar to how Location is represented in the Spiritual Realm, although Location is a bit easier to explain. Location is mainly explained by the Spiritual aspect of Connection. When one is in a location, you become Connected to it. When you are born and from a location, you become more heavily connected to it than if you merely visited a location. This Connection is expressed in the Spirit Web, so if you identify as a Scadrian because you were born on Scadrial, that would make itself manifest in your sDNA. This is particularly important for Sel, where magic systems are entirely dependent on where you are from. It is also how Worldhoppers can use native languages without having to learn each one. They do so by tapping into connection, although exactly how is not entirely clear. We do have a clear example of Connection in BoM, where the medallions of the Southerners allow Wax and Co to speak with Allik. So, while there are no actual locations in the Spiritual Realm, location is still represented. Clearly, all things, and all parts of an individual, are somehow represented in the Spiritual Realm. This entire shape, the key thing of it being a particular person is the Spiritual aspect of Identity. Your Identity means that it is you. No matter how much you change as a person, your core Identity does not change, as evidenced by the fact that Feruchemists are still able to use metalminds they filled a long time ago. A few things about general Spirit Web function before I move on to discussing how the various Magics utilize the Spirit. First, digestion and destruction. By eating things, you are destroying them and turning them into yourself. As such, the Web of the items you eat are changing. They are no longer meat or an apple, they have now partially integrated into your own Web, adding to your strength and general livelihood. This also gets into the key idea of a Spirit Web acting somewhat like an Enzyme, which I will address more later. Second, heritage. As per WoB and common sense, heritage is reflected in the Spirit Web. After all, who your parents are is part of who you are, and therefore part of your Identity. Also, Allomancy and Feruchemy are both inherited, which means parts of the Spirit Web are passed on. This is probably not a cut and paste method of inheritance, but more an adaptation of the Child’s Spirit Web to start forming an Identity. It seems reasonable to assume that at birth, one has very little Identity. But, one of the first things that truly Identifies you is your parents. At that age, there is not much more that really makes you you. As such, the Spirit would Connect to the parental Spirit, and as such take on some of its attributes. This would include genetics, looks, philosophies, and magical abilities, although clearly it is not a perfect copy. This is also not a perfect model of how the Spirit would develop from birth, because clearly orphans don’t develop ideas similar to the parents if they were never raised by them. However, certain Connections to things around them should explain how a child develops the way they do. Finally, beginning to move into the more magical side of things, there is Snapping. This is a matter of some debate on how it works. Clearly, trauma of some kind causes snapping. Harmony also made snapping easier in Era 2, which shows that it can be affected by a Shard. I will attempt to explain my own hypothesis on how snapping actually works. I believe it is simply a change in who you are. As mentioned before, your core identity never changes. You are always who you are. Bu who you identify as does change, and this should reflect in the Spiritual Realm. The thing about trauma is that it changes you. You are not the same before and after being beaten bloody. You are not the same after killing your mother. But you can change in smaller ways too. This change in who you are would “Snap” your spirit web. Perhaps the first time you see poverty. Or the first time you lose someone. Perhaps just breaking an arm, or getting a nasty illness. You don’t have to commit murder just to become Radiant. It is probable that virtually every individual in the Cosmere is Snapped, to some degree or another. And once a crack in your Spirit Web forms, it is possible for more Investiture to enter in. What kind depends on where and who you are, and it is not entirely evident how each of these magical systems work. But, I will do the best to explain how what we have seen might be reflective of the Spirit Web. I will start off with Allomancy. As we all well know, a typical allomancer ingests the metal they are able to utilize, and then “burns” it to gain access to the power associated with that particular metal. I will address two important Spiritual ideas in Allomancy. First, the idea of something being a “part of you.” From many WoB’s asking whether various metal things within the body would be burnable, it is evident that in order to burn a metal, you must consider it to be “inside” of you. As soon as this is the case, the Spirit Web of the metal is now part of your Spirit Web, although still as a metal. Here’s where the other idea enters in: the ability of a Spirit Web to interact with other webs in a particular web. This is why I explain it as being like an Enzyme. The Spirit Web (according to my speculation) has a particular part that is the “active site,” which has a particular shape to fit exactly to a particular metal. The metal has to be the correct alloy because it needs to have the exact spiritual shape to fit into the “active site”. Once this takes place, an allomancer can then burn the metal. At this point, the “active site” consumes the metal’s spirit web, also consuming the metal itself, which then takes power from Preservation to power the particular ability the metal provides. It is likely that this active site has some sort of connection to Preservation which allows this connect to take place. The reason there are no 2 metal Mistings is that a Mistborn, instead of having 16 separate “active sites,” has one active site that handles any allomantic metal. A Lerasium Alloy could be imagined as creating the active site for that specific metal, while straight Lerasium would create the complete active site. How aluminum fits into this is not entirely clear, although I suspect that when one burns Aluminum, it all goes away because it’s the power of Preservation destroying the metallic spirit web, turning it into (useless) investiture. Also, Allomancy’s abilities could be imagined as Connecting to a particular idea or object, and then pulling or pushing on that connection. This gives further evidence to the Time being a Spiritual Object idea, as this would suggest that Bendalloy and Cadmium connect, and the push or pull on Time. Next, Feruchemy. Again, the active site thing works the same, except this time you are putting investiture from your own spirit web into the metal you can store into. Yes, into the Spirit Web of the metal. So, you store part of your ideal Health, or Strength, leaving that part of the spirit web that identifies your Strength or Health weaker. Of particular interest is the Spiritual quadrant of Feruchemy. Unlike Allomancy, the abilities of Feruchemy are all ones you have naturally, just used at a different rate than one normally would. Investiture is particularly interesting, as it means you store the stuff that makes up your spirit web- therefore weakening it- to tap it and make it stronger at a later date. How this is useful is not quite clear, unless you have another ability to pair it with. Storing Identity is also interesting, as you can become more of a blank slate. This also has some regard to metalminds, although exactly how Unsealed metalminds, like the Medallions, work yet is not entirely clear. Connection stores your ability to make connections, which might have some very interesting implications on a developing child. But of most interest of me today is Fortune, or the ability to see the future. Atium worked with Fortune on a very small scale, allowing one to see slightly into the future. Only slightly, because when you look only slightly into the future, usually there are not a lot of branches. However, as Vin so dramatically illustrated, sometimes one can force branches of change. Fortune probably just is the ability to choose which path they want to take, at the cost of having no foresight whatsoever when storing. Fortune on a grander scale is something that needs to be addressed, as a complete topic. Fortune is an ability demonstrated by Shards and those who see significantly into the Spiritual Realm. The branching of possible futures is clearly quite frustrating, and not always easy to interpret. Hoid does have a way of manipulating fortune, but it is NOT through Feruchemy. He does not store and then tap fortune, he has another way of manipulating it. It allows him to know where to go where he is needed. Source The Spiritual Realm manifests all possible futures, with some being more likely than others. However, it only takes one path in the end. Shards who’s intents are better aligned with foresight are better at seeing into the future. The ability to see possible pasts is also there, as shown by Malatium. However, this ability is clearly less useful than being able to see possible futures. While on the topic of Shards, I might as well get in a little speculation before I move on to addressing the Surges and the other smaller magic systems. What we call a Shard’s intent, is more than just an arbitrary name, despite what Odium says to the contrary in OB. It is, to some degree or another, a Spiritual Ideal. A Shard is a massive soul, given that it has an immense amount of investiture composing it. It is no wonder that a Vessel’s identity would be warped by so much Investiture that composed an ideal of Ruin, or Honor. I have speculated before that what we call “Intents” are pieces of Adonalsium’s original identity. However, after some more thought, I think it is also possible that Adonalsium came about as a natural creation of the untapped Spiritual Realm that was birthed at the beginning of whatever universe the Cosmere takes place in. Without life, the Spiritual Realm would not be used much, because it is living things that have large amounts of investiture in their soul, compared to the soul of a potato or a table. This may have led to friction between the realms, where the untapped Investiture of the Spiritual Realm became a single entity. No, according to this theory, Adonalsium wasn’t ever a human. But it was a mind. A living being, with more soul energy than anything else will ever have. As such, it’s Spirit would be the perfect ideal Spirit- A God. As for why relative Infinity would shatter into 16, or why anyone would want to Shatter Adonalsium, it is not entirely clear, besides a WoB or two. Source However, it does seem clear that what we call the Intent is more or less how the Vessel interprets the Spiritual Ideal the Shard represents. Furthermore, I speculate that it is due to these ideals that make Shards subject to certain laws- they cannot easily violate ideals they represent. Moving back to magic systems, we address Surgebinding. Surgebinding, in Spiritual terms, seems to be harnessing what are considered to be the 10 elemental forces on Roshar, according to the part of real interest- Spren bonds. A Knight swears Ideals or Truths- things that bring them closer to a Spiritual ideal of the Honor that their Order represents. Furthermore, the Spren integrates itself into the person’s Spiritual cracks. As such, the spren become more human, and the human becomes more sprenlike. This symbiotic relationship takes place all over Roshar, with a myriad of species. Of spiritual interest, the most important surge would probably be Transformation, which uses Stormlight to change an object into another type of thing, which means it is changing the Spirit Web of an object into a different shape. Most dramatically, Jasnah is even able to do this to people, changing them from human into a person shaped crystal statue. Of other significant note are the Singers, who are able to bond with spren to alter their bodies- and therefore their Spirit Web- into different shapes and purposes. This probably also has something to do with Active Sites being able to take in a spren. The Rhythms are likely Spiritual pulses, ideals of particular emotions. This probably comes from making small emotional connections to these Ideals, which then have this “rhythm” of investiture flow. How this works is not entirely clear. Also of some Spiritual importance is the fact that Highstorms constantly drag a perpendicularity across Roshar, which I theorize to be why spren are able to appear, because that much being driven together would likely leave the realms closer than if a perpendicularity never moved over Roshar. In fact, I think it has something to do with the entire ecology of Roshar, although how Shinovar fits in is not clear, due to a recent non-answer from Brandon on the question. Also of some interest is that fabrials have no identity, so they can be used by anyone. This contrasts greatly with your standard metalmind, which requires all sorts of extra steps we don’t understand in order to be used by anyone. Of some importance to address at this point are resonances. While I have been describing them as webs, they still are not technically a web. The Spiritual Realm is still a non-dimensional thing. Therefore, one’s spirit is both a web and a point. And in a point, all parts of it are on top of each other. Therefore, different magical abilities interact with one another, in ways that have not been fully explained yet. However, I am pretty sure that resonances are a direct result of the Ideals that different Orders identify with. How Twinborn resonances work, I have no idea. Until we get some actual examples, it is really hard to speculate on how the feruchemy and allomancy interact with one another. Moving on to less important magic systems, I will address the Selish magics as a whole. Basically, it appears that due to the Dor being in the cognitive realm, that practicioners of them forge a connection (haha accidental pun) by creating the shapes of the land they are from, whether through Aons, in your Dakhor bones, a weird sword kata, or in a Soulstamp. The Soulstamp is probably the most interesting spiritually, as it basically uses investiture to rewrite a spirit web. The closer the stamp is to the ideal, the better the stamp works. Sand Mastery is odd. How it works spiritually is not entirely clear, but also doesn’t matter to me too much, because as Khriss says, it is a low investiture system. Threnody is mainly weird because everybody has been invested to the point that they can turn into shades if they die in the right way, but no actual magic is taking place, so I’ll leave it at it being interesting that the Investiture has the ability to completely corrupt the identity of a person into whatever a Shade is. Awakening is not entirely interesting from a Spiritual standpoint, besides the dramatic exceptions of Divine Breaths and Nightblood. Nightblood is interesting because they made a super-invested death sword that is now alive. Divine breaths allow a person to come back from the dead, highly invested, at the cost of consuming some investiture each week or so. Creating sentient entities from investiture is definitely the more unique ability of this world, although I would recommend not trying that at home. I’m going to be honest and say that First of the Sun might be realmatically interesting, but at this point, I’m kind of done theorizing. It also appears to be a low investiture system, however. Why the worms only cause abilities in birds, well, probably some Spiritual shape stuff. Until we see more of that world it is hard to determine why particular species demonstrate particular abilities when the eat the worms. Also, it is notable that Sak uses some sort of form of Fortune when she shows Dusk possible places where he could die. Finally, I kind of forgot about one of the most important Spiritual magic systems: Hemalurgy. Hemalurgy is a leaky, low investiture system. But most importantly it is able to rip off pieces of a spirit web and attatch it onto another one. This is absolutely fascinating, as Khriss expresses in the Ars Arcanum. The uses for Hemalurgy seem to be mostly up to the imagination of the user, as long as one is ok with the grisly work of spiking people. A couple more spiritual things I should probably mention. A spiritual corpse lasts for a while, probably due to connections to living people. Aluminum’s total spiritual aspect seems to resist investiture, and has an aura that can be overwhelmed with enough investiture, even if the actual aluminum itself is not overwhelmable. However, its Spirit web can still be accessed, because Feruchemy and Allomancy still work with it, however useless destroying your own metals may be. This is why I think that Allomancy is indirectly working with the investiture and the aluminum, compared to directly targeting aluminum with a steelpush or a soulcasting, which just has no chance of working. Finally, I realized today that in the Cosmere, a Frankenstein’s monster is downright likely to appear at some point. Not a Frankenstein’s spren, like Nightblood, or like whatever Kelsier is now. I speak of creating an entirely new person, which is indicated to be possible from this WoB about creating a sentient space ship from hemalurgy. Mark my words. Mistborn Era 3, Hemalurgic Mistborn Cyborgs and Frankenstein’s monsters are coming. Edit #1. The Law of Investiture Saturation. Basically, a spirit web can only hold so much investiture, accounting for things like mistpoint, or a full metalmind. The amount it can hold is directly related to how complex the spirit web is. As a spirit web comes closer to saturation, it becomes harder exponentially to apply more investiture to the spirit web. The reason a shard works is because it adds to the web, not just inflating it. Savants happen when this state happens too often, leaving the "Strands" of the Spirit web perpetually "dialated", thus warping the spirit web. Edit #2. Eyes are weird in the Cosmere. Between eyes turning red due to shards hacking other magic systems, and the fact that your eyes burn out when you get stabbed by a shardblade, it's pretty evident something weird is going on. I propose that eyes are somewhat a reflection of the Spiritual Realm. Not a perfect one. But think about it. When you look out of your eyes, that's *you*. Its you behind those eyes, more so than being behind your fingers, or your ears. So it kind of makes sense that eyes could be "windows to the soul." Eye color change appears to occur when a sentient spirit web overlays your own. Namely, spren on Roshar. I'm pretty sure eyes change permanently once you reach the 5th oath, and Nale seems to reflect that, because even when he summons both Blades, Szeth never mentioned any eye color change. However, this needs to be confirmed by WoB. The 5th oath thing would explain why bonding a dead blade changes your eyes as long as you are bonded to it, rather than only when you summon it, like the Sylblade or the Honorblades. Furthermore, Lighteye Radiant not changing colors makes sense, because they are descended from radiants. Rather than needing a Spren, when they were born, their spirit web imitated their parents- with Radiant eyes. From that point on, it would be genetic/spiritually genetic. This does lend some credence to my theory on how children's spirit webs develop. It needing to be a sentient spirit web explains why your eyes should not change color when you get spiked, or get a divine breath, or get a forging. The red eye thing makes sense, as a shard hacking the magics system would reflect in the spirit web. Although, I do wonder why red. Why not purple? In world, why does the red occur? I don't have any good ideas for explaining that, so I'll leave that alone. Oh, and I just had the idea that perhaps Radiant eye color reflects the color of their spren, but I would have to double check that to see if I'm just making that up. It certainly would work for Kaladin though. Also, Preservation has weird eyes, but this makes sense given that he literally has a SHARD on top of his once human spirit web. If the eyes are the windows to the soul, the eyes would definitely show something like that. One problem with the whole sentient spirit web idea is the Singers, but I think because the Singer's spirit webs are specifically made to adapt to spren, that unless you have a hacking thing (like Voidspren) the color of eyes won't change. Although, I will be VERY interested to see what color Venli's eyes will turn. Ok, now I get to the weird one. Shades. I *think* that the splinter of Ambition that hit Threnody is somewhat sentient, but usually doesn't actively control the shades it has invested. But when somebody breaks the rules (which I still don't have an explanation for), then the splinter takes over, turning their eyes from green to red. Also, I think the big chunk of the Splinter is the Evil, but that no longer pertains to the Spiritual Realm. Anyway, I hope my rambling explains something for you. Once again, most of it is speculation, but I think it is pretty on the nose as to how it works. TL;DR: Spirity Wirity Investy Webby Stuff.
  12. 23 points
    (Bit of a serious one, but this is the scene I am sad will get skipped) Shallan's eyes flickered between the two Kholin brothers as they processed their Father's words. Dalinar had stumbled through the terrible truth of their Mother's death, not daring to look either boy in the eye. As the story came to an end he looked up, but his eyes locked onto Shallan's. She recognised the pain contained within, it visited her in the mirror everyday. Killing someone you loved left a distinctive mark. Renarin stared at his knees, his fingers tightening around the chain which he had pulled from the pocket of his shinny new Bridge 4 jacket. Adolin looked up, his eye hollow and cold. Shallan reached out her safe hand and rested it on his shouder. Finally Adolin spoke, his voice cracking like he was a young boy again. "Why are you telling us now?" Dalinar looked back at Adolin. "I sought the Nightwatcher. To forget. I didn't want to remember. But now I do, I knew you needed to know. The truth about her. The truth about me." Pattern gave a nervous hum from Shallan's skirt. Shallan shook her head. No. Forgetting as he had sounded tempting . But she would not take back her truths. Adolin stood, his fists white. "I can't. I need time to think Father. Let's go." Shallan joined him and they walked towards the door. But she paused as Renarin stood and stepped towards his Father, chain falling to the floor. He put out his hand, as if to summon his blade. "No." But Shallan stopped as Renarin placed his hand onto his Father's drooping shoulder. "Father, I am so sorry. The pain you must feel." His eyes were bright, but not with stormlight. "We can help you bear it now." Shallan swallowed a sob as she turned back and followed her husband back down the hall."
  13. 23 points
    At 45% in Wok….. We learn more about modern opinions of the past. Dalinar and Navani's past is revealed. Dalinar is less than pleased at how it comes about. Makkek's strategy:
  14. 22 points
    Alright. Real quick points: Favorite Chapter: Probably Chapter 119 "Unity" - the culmination of Dalinar's backstory to the present... and Dalinar's Ascension just amazing. Favorite Characters: Kaladin, because for once he doesn't save the day alone, yet makes plenty of personal progress. Adolin, because he shows that heroes don't have to be Radiants. Dalinar, because... he shows that even the worst man has a chance at redemption. Jasnah, whoever still says she is heartless after this book, is blind. Bridge Four, just because. Least favorite Characters: Moash. Enough said. Favorite plotlines: Everything. Yes. This book is good from start to end. Least favorite thing: Sadeas' murder getting swept under the rug. Though I wouldn't be surprised if he haven't seen the last of it yet. Especially with Adolin now being highprince. Least favorite (minor) plotline: The "love triangle". This might sound bitter from me, but please don't mistake it as that. I have nothing against Adolin and Shallan getting together, but I am afraid, that their relationship will remain as bland and shallow as it is right now. In my eyes, it is unrealistically perfect and boring to read. Shallan's constant swooning about Adolin and Veil's swooning about Kaladin (though not as frequent) was really one of the worst things in this book, often leaving me with rolling eyes. The Kaladin/Shallan side of this "triangle" was only marginally explored and ended with plenty of assumptions on Shallan's side. I'll delve deeper into my thoughts in a specific thread, but I think that whole thing could have been just left out. That said, this is my only real criticism of this book, which makes it a really, really good one. There are so many things in it and I can't wait to discuss them all.
  15. 22 points

    From the album Doodles of Scadrial

    “I am the one thing you can never kill. I am Hope.”
  16. 22 points
    While not a meme, I feel like it's fitting of the humor of this thread. EDIT- fixing... Here's the video in the meantime. https://www.youtube.com/embed/DLeoHC0ofBI It does have slight spoilers for the whole cosmere. Just so you know.
  17. 18 points
    Kaladin and the Stormfather:
  18. 17 points

    From the album Doodles of Scadrial

    Just some pose practice
  19. 15 points
    Gonna go ahead and spoiler tag this beast.
  20. 15 points
    On one hand, I agree that it's nice to have a non-Radiant in there, but on the other hand I want to see him revive Maya, and I don't think that's going to happen without him becoming a Radiant (Edgedancer to be precise).
  21. 14 points
    Oathbringer trust issues:
  22. 13 points
    Hi guys, I'm new here, just finished reading Book 3 (was peeking around a bit after Book 2, but didn't join). I'm actually surprised at the variety of "shipping" around here - I was never much into imagining relationship between barely known characters, or relationships based on one or two lines and details (and I can't say I really care about all the logical, real-life tidbits if they take away from the richness of a story). I enjoy feeling that I'm under both characters' skins (the reason why I don't care much about Tarah, she was just dropped there out of the blue), I enjoy the slow, detailed and complex buildup of connection and understanding that turns into passion, and I like the writer to take me there - my emotions seem stronger when triggered by somebody else's words than my own imagination. That's why this book was so disappointing for me (in this context, at least) after Book 2 seemed to go decidedly in that direction. I mean, Adolin "knows" Shallan and accepts her as who she is? She never even told him about killing her parents, she always played a nice little Vorin girl with him. That was pretty much the whole point of their communication in Book 2. Then after she spends a night in a city in utter despair (after Grund's death) she comes to Adolin and he ... starts talking about fashion?... And then somehow, suddenly, he makes her whole and she "always loved him". Cheap, bland and lame, especially in the hands of otherwise such a skilled writer. I have a strong impression that Brandon Sanderson changed his mind about the ending of the series - or maybe the ending for Kaladin? - somewhere between the two books or even in the middle of Oathbringer, and that's why he devised such a sharp, poorly explained U-turn in the romance plot. Otherwise, I really see no point for him to dedicate so much time and energy into building such a deep, smouldering sense of connection between Kaladin and Shallan in book 2, in the first place, and then suddenly drop it for no reason. At first I thought Kaladin is supposed to become the new Honor, like something similar with you-probably-know-who in Mistborn. But it seems that Dalinar might be going in that direction. Now I'm not sure, but it doesn't bode well for Kaladin. Especially considering the story about the man racing the storm that he and Wit told in Book 2, in which the racer dies, but "his spirit moves on", and Wit says, basically, it's Kaladin's story. Storms. I hate when main characters die, it makes the whole book feel rather empty and pointless. I guess I'm a bit old-fashioned that way, but feelings don't choose fashion. I can't imagine there will be any divorce/cheating/anything to change the current state of affairs, with Radiants, especially Honor-bound, being so heavy on oaths and all. And now that I've been thoroughly denied a nice, slow, elaborate and intense romance, I guess I have to go back to Bujold's The Sharing Knife to give me what I crave. It's quite uncommon that I find somebody who can evoke truly deep and not cheap-sounding emotions, and she does it really well.
  23. 12 points
    I think you’re right about the Diagram being a misdirection, but I think it’s fooled Taravangian too. The diagram comes totally from Cultivation, and she’s going to use it to take down Odium, all while mr T thinks he’s doing everything for Odium.
  24. 12 points
    Ok, guys, the summary is more or less done! https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VqLjiUojkPqIfLJLyu7OnykTP3i-LG0f5f1KjRSJE6A/edit?usp=sharing I'll leave it in "everybody can edit" mode for now in case I overlooked something important or you have a quote to add! I'll probably later change it to "anybody can comment" so that we don't get attacked by any trolls. It needs some polishing, but like I said, it's not an essay, but a note. Also, I kind of concentrated on the topics that I felt were more in line with the main topic, overlooking mostly the discussion f.ex. on Shallan becoming a mother or deep analysis of Adolin's character. If you disagree with this approach, please feel free to add or rephrase anything. I think that @DimChatz summary would work well as the introduction, for example, but I won't go as far with copying other people's posts, unless you want to include it Anyway, this is wholly a group work, I only summarize because I'm a notes freak.
  25. 12 points
    This is a great section. I have stated multiple times, that the whole causal with Adolin and Shallan felt extremely... like necessity to me. On both sides. At first Shallan needed to be married into the Kholin family to save her family, which is why she did everything to play the good Vorin girl... Well, that fizzled out when the world started to end Now she needs him to anchor her "Shallan" personality as primary, and Adolin needs her to, well, feel good about finally having a lasting relationship. Props to him for being willing to step back. Kaladin and Shallan felt more... natural in its development. Not necessary at all, it just happened. I think, that this is a more realistic depiction of how falling in love works, but then again, "falling in love" is hard to define. Anyway. What is important is, that I do think, that Adolin is attached to Shallan, but not trueShallan, which makes the revelation, that Shallan is much, much more than that even worse. There is a reason many long-lasting couples break up with the sentence "You're not the man/woman I fell in love with anymore." The longer Shallan waits, the harder it will be for Adolin to accept... Problem is, that Shallan herself sees herself as independent from Veil and Radiant, so she'll probably won't even be that inclined to tell him about those things you've listed. As she's already pushing this off to Veil with her Ghostblood involvement.
  26. 12 points
    Nobody in six pages brought up him carrying around his mother's necklace? Or refusing to name his sword for years because it was not her real name? "I will remember those who have been forgotten." He is basically holding a neon "I am an Edgedancer!" sign. Dalinar even seems to see his very plate on an edgedancer in a vision.
  27. 12 points
    LOL this one! And this one! Dang it, I had things I wanted to get done tonight. Oh well, here goes. "Do you wanna kill some evil?" *I can't claim credit for the original idea on this one: that goes to @tecslicer and @Claincy who came up with it in this thread (which has some other great song ideas in it, like Bridge Four signing "He's a bit of a Fixer Upper" to Shallan and Kaladin).
  28. 12 points
    Inspired by @TwiLyghtSansSparkles's wildly popular thread Memefying Books, I present... Memefying What Happened in Portland! Same premise as Twi's thread, but for the Reckoners RPG. I know many Sharders (myself among them) are a little wary of diving into this subforum because of how MUCH there is to read in here, so I'm hoping this thread will get more people interested in the amazing storytelling going on in here. To get the ball rolling, I have made a few memes from the first page of posts in the Portland thread. Enforcement officers outside Fortuity's penthouse in the OP: CorpseMaker at the end of The Only Joe's 2nd post: Nathan after spending a few hours with Doctor Funtimes:
  29. 12 points
  30. 12 points

    From the album cloud world

    my secret sazed present for craftycowboyenemy on tumblr haha look at that handsome boy
  31. 11 points
    I previously made a compilation of the curses and exclamations used in the Stormlight Archive. Because moving that topic to the OB board would remove it as a reference for people who have not yet finished Oathbringer, I have decided to start a new topic here that will incorporate the new material. This can replace or merge with the other thread when spoilers are no longer a concern. To my knowledge, the list is exhaustive for WoK, WoR, and Edgedancer. I have added all the new instances from OB of which I'm aware, but I'm sure that I have missed some. I appreciate your help in completing the collection. OB entries have been incorporated into the catalog below, but a list of the new curses is spoilered here for those who want to identify the novel entries discovered in OB. On attributions: In most cases, speaker attributions are omitted for the sake of clarity, but speakers are identified parenthetically if their identity adds important context to the entry. If you think a particular phrase should be attributed (or not), please make your case in a comment. Storms and Storming are universal, and people use them frequently. So far we haven’t had many scenes from people on the western half of the continent where the storms are weaker; there is a good chance that the storms are invoked far less in such regions. Notably, Taffa uses a storm-related curse in Dalinar’s Starfalls vision, indicating that it was used historically as well. Variants and related curses: "Stormwinds" (Lirin, Taffa), "Storms alight" (Jasnah), "Blustering" (Yalb, a Thaylen Admiral), The Heralds, collectively and as individuals, are invoked across many Rosharan cultures. Vorin speakers most frequently swear by Kelek, but by the end of WoR Vorin speakers have invoked each of the ten Heralds at least once. As they occur in curses, the Vorin forms are: Jezerezeh, Nalan, Chana, Vev/Vedeledev, Pailiah/Pali, Ash, Battah, Kelek, Talat, Ishi [Herald] knows or [Herald] send are frequent formulations. ”Chana help” is a similar construction [Herald’s] [attribute] A herald is often paired with a body part or attribute. Some appear to be traditional associations, but others are most likely spontaneous variations. Examples Kelek's breath / tongue Ash's eyes Ishar's soul Nalan's hand Pali's mind—(Adrotagia) by Vedeledev's golden keys—(Kabsal) Talat's hand / palms / nails Other Variants: “Living Heralds above” "Heralds send” "What in Kelek's name” Azish speakers use alternate names for the heralds, primarily invoking Yaezir (Jezrien) Variants: "for Yaezir's sake," "Yaezir help" Kadasixes and Stars -- Kadasix is the Azish word for Herald, but the association with stars is interesting, especially considering cosmological features like Taln's scar and the gas giants shown in the star chart in Arcanum Unbounded. Tashikki speakers frequently invoke Tashi, probably either Taln or Ishar (see this thread for discussion). Variants: "Tashi above," "Tashi, God of Gods and Binder of the World" Other Vorin Curses Almighty is a frequent Vorin curse, referencing Honor/Tanavast. Many variants of usage are found: "Almighty above" "by the Almighty's tenth name" "what in the Almighty's own eyes?" "by the names of God himself" "Almighty, cast from heaven to dwell in our hearts" Stormfather is a ubiquitous Vorin curse. NOTE: While the general usage is distinct, we should remember that Vorinism has conflated the Stormfather with Jezerezeh/Jezrien. In contrast, the Natan people conflate him with Kelek. Damnation is an especially common curse among Vorin speakers. Variants and related phrases: “What in Damnation's eleventh name?"—(Sebarial) “What in the Halls”—(Van Jushu) a reference to the Tranquiline Halls Other Cultures Passions--Thaylen. Rendered "Blessed passion" on one occasion (Yokska). Thaylen speakers also say things like "I had Passion that help would come," meaning hope or expectation. Both usages are related to (but distinct from) the Passion spoken of by singers Fused, and Odium himself. The singer version so far does not appear to be used as a curse. Flick my sparks –(Lopen) Herdazian exclamation, a reference to sparkflickers. Blight it all – (Axies) presumably Siah/Aimian, but Axies is a traveler and could have acquired it elsewhere Dustmother—(Ton, a Bavlander in a Szeth interlude of WoK). Possibly Vorin? Glories within—(Szeth) Shin Stones Unhallowed -- (Szeth) Shin Kali’kalin’s ghost – (Rock) Unkalaki, possibly referencing a Herald Beautiful lights and fallen stars -- (Rock) Unkalaki Blessed gods of sea and stone -- (Rock) Unkalaki Starlight - (Geranid) Speaker is a Vorin ardent with extended residence in the Reshi isles Spren It is not yet clear how spren culture divides, so instances are noted by speaker: Wyndle: “Sweet virtue” and variants of "Mother" including “Oh blessed mother” and "Oh Mother, oh Cultivation!" Stormfather: "Why in Damnation", an apparently Vorin appropriation. Unique or Uncategorized Drynets—a sailor curse implied to be quite inappropriate. Starving--unique curse used by food-obsessed Lift. Variants include "Starve me" Storming Mother of the World and Father of Storms Above. (Lift) Originally Reshi, Lift has travelled widely, so it is difficult to assign a parent culture. Blood of my fathers - So far only used by Dalinar, this may be a feature of the violent Alethi culture frozen -- (Malata) derogatory adjective, possibly Veden Past Eras, as seen in Dalinar’s visions Three Gods--(Taffa) Sweet wisdom of Battar--(Taffa) Worldhoppers Shadows—(Nazh) Threnody By purity's eye - (Nazh) Threnody Merciful Domi - (Riino) Sel Damnation--(Azure) A Vorin curse, notable because Azure uses it ungrammatically as "Damnation me" and "Damnation these creatures," betraying her incomplete command of the language Oh God. Oh Adonalsium! - (Ash) Heavens, no--(Wit) Notable only for the lack of similar phrases by native Rosharans.
  32. 11 points
    Like many before me, I have tried to predict the names of the remaining unrevealed Shards of Adonalsium. This is what I’ve come up with. First, read these two WoBs. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/256-oathbringer-london-signing/#e8689 https://wob.coppermind.net/events/247-ancient-17s-qa/#e5518 When asked if all shards have direct opposites, Brandon says no. But when asked if all shards are paired, he gives it a RAFO. So these are clearly two different questions, and “no” is only the answer to one of them. Here’s my interpretation. All shards are paired, but not all pairs are direct opposites. I propose that there are two different kinds of shard pairings: Hard Opposites and Soft Opposites. Hard Opposites are directly opposed to each other. Their intents are in absolute conflict. The obvious example is Ruin and Preservation, destructive change and benevolent stasis. The conflict between them is Irreconcilable. If the intents of Hard Opposites are like enemies, the intents of Soft Opposites are more like rivals. They ultimately seek the same goal, or address the same issue, but with different philosophies. I believe Devotion and Dominion are Soft Opposites. They are two opposing philosophies on God’s relationship with his people. Dominion thinks God should rule his people, and Devotion thinks God should serve the people. It’s easy to see these two forces warring in the mind of the original God, Adonalsium. But despite their conflicting values, they are not entirely different from one another. They agree that the people-God relationship should exist. They would both be against an atheistic world, where gods keep to themselves. They have differing views, but common interests. Simply put, Soft Opposites have conflict, but they could probably settle on the same planet without killing each other, unlike Ruin and Preservation. Their intents can potentially compromise. Now that I have these terms defined, the next step is to look at all the unpaired shards we know of, and figure out if any of them are actually each other’s counterparts. Odium Honour Cultivation Autonomy Endowment Ambition I think I see a match. I think Autonomy is the Hard Opposite of Endowment. Autonomy is all about noninterference. She doesn’t want any cosmeric stuff to interact with her native people. That’s why Khriss was allowed to leave Taldain, but not to return. And I might even theorize that Autonomy doesn’t want her people (or people in general) to have magic at all, and that she constructed the astronomical weirdness of Taldain specifically to isolate her own magic system on the Dayside, and allow the Nightside civilization to develop magic-free. Endowment is clearly the opposite. Not only does she elevate people to godhood on a whim, she gives every human on Nalthis a little bit of magic to play around with. Endowment interferes, Autonomy doesn’t. Endowment gives power, Autonomy withholds it. Direct opposites. This is where things get highly speculative. We have four shards left with no obvious opposite, so I’m going to propose some hypothetical ones to complement them. Odium’s is the easiest. Odium is hate, so his opposite is love. Or, to use a more shardy-sounding name, Adoration. A Hard opposite. I know the love shard is an unpopular guess because it seems too easy, but bear with me. Adoration is not too similar to Devotion. Devotion is divine, paternal love; Adoration is personal, intimate love. Devotion is a philosophy, but Adoration... is Passion, Dalinar. Ambition’s opposite is Humility. This one also seems a bit obvious, but I think it works. Ambition always strives to achieve more, Humility is content with what it has. They are the two halves of God’s self-image. Ambition is the justifiable arrogance of the most powerful being in the universe, and Humility is the part that empathizes with the little people, and might even be appalled by its own power. Ambition wants power, Humility doesn’t. Ambition would have fought hard against the Shattering, Humility might have welcomed it. These are irreconcilable attitudes, and therefore Hard Opposites. I think the Hard Opposites are easier to figure out. Honor and Cultivation are more complex concepts, without an obvious opposite, which, I think, means they’ll have Soft Opposites. Cultivation’s is Artifice. I propose that this pair is the part of Adonalsium that dealt with creation. Creation is their shared priority, but they approach it in different ways. Cultivation is creation by encouragement, pruning, growth, and evolution. It’s the slow, organic, gentle kind of creation. Artifice is creation by construction, assembly, engineering, gears, and wrenches. Artifice builds things. Artifice will probably be found on a constructed planet, with perfect geometry in its geography, and whole species of golems. It’ll be a world where no one would ever conceive of evolution because everything was so obviously designed. Artifice’s magic system will probably resemble a crafting system. In Arcanum Unbounded, Khriss says “[Scadrial] is one of only two places in the cosmere where humankind does not predate the arrival of Shards.” I propose the other place is Artifice’s planet. Artifice would insist on creating her own variety of humans from scratch. Honor’s Soft Opposite is Conviction. Maybe there’s a better name for that. My first thought was “Ruthlessness,” but that doesn’t sound very shardy. Honor and Conviction are both committed to right action. They both encourage doing the right thing. But Conviction believes in “the ends justify the means.” Conviction encourages getting results by any means necessary, especially underhanded or devious means. He encourages healthy competition, and the survival of the fittest. Honor, of course, is committed to consistent rightness, in both ends and means. He is the thing you don’t sacrifice in pursuit of your goals. He believes in unity and cooperation. In other words, Honor is Dalinar. Conviction is Sadeas. We now have fourteen shards. Honor and Conviction Odium and Adoration Ruin and Preservation Devotion and Dominion Cultivation and Artifice Autonomy and Endowment Humility and Ambition That means we’re missing one pair. And this pair should include... the Survival Shard. Looking at what we have so far, I think we can group the shards into categories, each with four. Divinity Shards, which deal with the role of God in human society. Devotion, Dominion, Autonomy, Endowment. Physical Shards, which deal with creating and maintaining the physical universe. Cultivation, Artifice, Ruin, Preservation. Attitude Shards, which deal with God’s own values and morals. Honor, Conviction, Humility, Ambition. Emotion Shards, which are pretty obvious. Odium and Adoration. Look at that! One category is missing a pair. And you’ll notice that each category contains a pair of Hard Opposites (marked in bold) and a pair of Soft Opposites (marked in italics). So we need a pair of Soft Opposite Emotion Shards. I propose Sorrow and Fear. This idea comes from some old mental health wisdom, and I’m sorry I couldn’t figure out exactly who to attribute this to. It says that depression is when you’re fixated on the past, and anxiety is when you’re fixated on the future. Some people get stuck in one of those. Some people oscillate between them. I think Adonalsium was one of the latter. Sorrow is God’s depression. Fear is God’s anxiety. And Fear, which constantly obsesses about the future, is the shard with the most powerful precognitive abilities. It has foreseen things none of the other shards know about. Things so terrifying that it flees from them, fearing for its own survival. I could (and perhaps will) create a table of shards, like the allomantic table, which divides them into quadrants and into Soft vs Hard Opposites instead of Internal vs External metals. Thoughts? Scathing criticism? Insults?
  33. 11 points
    I haven’t seen anyone post this yet the person who made it can be found here: https://www.google.com/amp/tatter-demallion.tumblr.com/post/100307590545/i-love-that-dalinar-basically-ordered-the/amp
  34. 11 points
  35. 10 points
     Dalinar is a boss: Right when we start to like Elhokar, Moash be like: Shallan's struggles continue:
  36. 10 points
  37. 9 points
    This thread will be dedicated to the holy Vorin poetry form, a ketek. They must read the same forward and backward, but you can alter verb forms. Please promote this thread, because there isn't much about the ketek on this site, and I love this poetry so much, so let's try and fill this to the brim. Make keteks about life experiences, characters, or anything. My ketek below is about forgiveness.
  38. 9 points
    I've just found another quote that I don't think we've had here: (Storms I'm never going to get over it if these things continue to pop up.) I like how it shows Kaladin is not the only one that gets the cheer-up boost.
  39. 9 points
    This is how I interpret the ShallanShattering: Once upon a time she was a normal girl with many and complex personality traits like everyone else. Until she killed her mother and had to bury the memory and let her father take the blame, and see how he suffered and became more and more angry because of this. The repercussions of Brightlady Davar´s dead were huge, and all the family and household suffered from it. So Shallan obviusly felt guilty. That´s when she starts pretanding to be the perfect daughter, and developed personaShallan by burying other traits, that will eventually evolve into Veil and Radiant. PersonaShallan is "funny, eager, shy, vorin, artist" (note: this is also the Shallan that was expecting to marry whoever her father chose, and was ecstatic at the idea of an arranged marriage with a prince). The perfect girl for surviving her complicated home life. I think she buried, back then, some characteristics like her courage, self confidence, interest for the parshmen and the darkeyed household (she knew her father killed many of them, but didn´t do anything, she used to draw parshman but she was forbidden to do it because it was unseemly), radiantness (comlpetely forgot about all this), her ambition, among others. When she left her home, and specially after the shipwreck, her personaShallan wasn´t equipped to deal with the new challenges, so she starts recovering some of her other traits, but then pushes them into the other personas. The personaShallan for house Davar is the most similar to the personaShallan who tries to win over Adolin, she really doesn´t change that much. As she has to pretend to be the perfect fiance, gain the Kholins´ trust and infiltrate the ghostblood, she picks some of her buried treats and baptizes this persona as Veil, then gives her a backstory. Eventually she will do a similar thing with Radiant. Doing this allows her to go on doing what she needs to do without freezing or confronting her truths. So in a way, Veil did live all the events that traumatized Shallan, because she was a bunch of characteristics that were buried afterwards because they dind´t go with the persona Shallan needed to be in order to avoid problems with her father. (I think Shallan could even convince herself that her mother´s death was Veil or Radiant´s fault if she tried, as that surviving instinct is not exactly personaShallan, but more like the other personas)
  40. 9 points
    I don't think so. I think it needs to be the truth of a lie told to oneself. It seems to be the theme of cryptics that they seek truth by understanding the difference between truth and a lie. The lie gives the truth meaning.
  41. 9 points
    Didn't even need to make this one:
  42. 8 points
    So I'm pretty sure the second letter is from Autonomy. And here I will explain why. I will attempt to explain how Trell, Pajti, the Sand Lord, are all seperate pieces of Autonomy. This does bear some similarity to my Spirit Realm thread, which is in my signature. But the most important thing is this WoB: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/256-oathbringer-london-signing/#e8605 So I think that by splitting up her mind, Bavadin became more powerful. How? Investiture. This is the hack here. She split it, and used the investiture to grow a new personality. A persona. An Aspect. Almost like harnessing the ability of Investiture to create sentient life. Then, with these personas, she is able to grasp more of this Autonomous investiture than she could if she was just one mind. It's a hack. One that appears to have created a collective. And with these personas, she will spread her Autonomous doctrine across the Cosmere.
  43. 8 points
    I am a god at this point, and I do have a moral resposibility to make sure Roshar doesn't burn. I am a cosmeric projection of the Author himself, I said before that I started out as words on a Page, and this is true. Here are the supporting details for this truth. I tell the best stories, period. I am represented as a single man, but how could a single man be in all of the places that I am supposed to be in, while still maintaing my prolific output of pure genius (like a certain mortal with the initials BWS does) unless I have been personally invested by the shard of Brandonalsium? If I am being honest with myself, all I really want to do is go back to the good old days on Yolen when my dragon friend Frost and I had bbqs and played bachi ball.
  44. 8 points
    If it's RAFO'd that's the answer @DimChatz I've been thinking on making a summary for a while, but for some reason, I didn't feel like diving again into all our issues and feelings regarding this particular resolution... Now that's done you inspired me to make a summary of our theories, observations regarding foreshadowings etc I'm not much an essay person, it'll be in the form of notes. It's already 9 pages, I aimed for much shorter, but with the quotes... I'll post it in a few hours I think.
  45. 8 points
  46. 8 points
    "I'm pretty sure there's still a God worshipping me..." Lopen. Just... Lopen.
  47. 7 points
    Queen Jasnah sat down at her desk after a grueling day in the presence of the high princes. She continued her ongoing process of searching through folder after folder of policies that had been documented by the scribes under Elhokar's reign. "Does this...does this paper say that Elhokar...abdicated the throne?" Navani nodded. "He told me this decision was made during the Battle of Narak. The family that kept him safe feared for the repercussions of harboring an Alethi king." Jasnah raised her eyebrows. "This document is missing a key piece of verbiage. Notice line four, clause seven. It states that the King would abdicate his throne on this date, the same day as the Battle of Narak...but there is no part in this document that states when he would return to the throne. It is an open-ended document." "Was Elhokar's official seal stamped to this document?" Navani questioned. "Yes, I..." Jasnah was cut off as the door slammed open. But the person on the other side wasn't walking on the floor. Lopen stepped through the doorway while walking on the ceiling, crown fused to his head using Adhesion. "Hello ladies. Goncho is ready to rule."
  48. 7 points
    Seems you have made up your mind, this doesn't exactly sound inviting, but I will give you a list of things about Adolin: Was neglected in favor of his brother, which he possibly saw as being unloved, because small children do not have the experience to interpret it accordingly and we know he felt jealous of Renarin Lost his mother young His father hated him for a while He didn’t want to be a soldier The burden of huge responsibility has been on his shoulders since young age He gave up on his passion – dueling – to appease his father Even in battle he seeks something of an equal duel, because slaughter makes him sick He lost thousands of men, some close to him He didn’t have any meaningful relationship with his peers until recently – no friendships and no romance he could manage to keep, that points towards some serious issues He literally considered his taylor to be the most trustworthy person in Kholinar, comic value aside, that's pretty said if you think about it I think a number of the things I listed exceed Lyn's struggles, however you clearly disagree. Adolin has to adhere to social norms, too. Granted those are flashier, it doesn't mean he truly wanted them, he spend his life so far trying to please his father. He's put aside his own desires to be the perfect son, soldier and prince. Also, you missed Elhokar in your sort of analysis and his main issue seemed to be that he isn't as good a ruler as his father.
  49. 7 points
  50. 7 points
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