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sorry, they threatened those that follow Stick. My phrasing was poor. Also: That is not true. Often, war can have bad results, but it is not inherently bad. Many good things have happened through war, like @The cheeseman said earlier. That is not true at all. Was the defeat of Nazi Germany just so the US could say, look at us, we're big and strong? No, there was much more to it. Again, not true. War is not about just one person or there wouldn't, and couldn't, be a war. war cannot exist without two parties fighting. the greater good is an undefined thing. Hitler thought that what he did was for the greater good. that doesn't mean it was right. While some of the greatest goods have been done under the mantra of "for the greater good" some of the greatest evils have as well.

I feel this is necessary. Why? To make sure our great friend @Just-A-Stick still feels good about herself. Here’s some people who I know she makes happy, but that’s only a few people, add your names below if she’s ever made you happy @WhyEverNot_8, @Through The Living Glass, @Part Of The Narrative, @RoyalBeeMage, @Edema Rue, @Shardwatcher01, @Wierdo, @Lunamor, @The cheeseman, @SmilingPanda19, @Weaver of Lights, @Block,

Oathbringer:

A girl leaves for a few hours and all of a sudden things have escalated into a holy war

YKYASFW you're in the middle of 3-4 other books, (2 of which are Sanderson) and your hand automatically reaches for Warbreaker...

*melts* Wow guys... Thank you guys smchhhh ALSO- IF IT'S WARRR THEN WE NEED TO BE LIKE SHERMAN AND USE SCORCHED EARTH TACTICS-

*wound in side grows larger, now seeming to cover entire side of body* not really, I'm just here. I move that @Thaidakar the Ghostblood is selected as our official secular leader and myself as our spiritual leader, and that we form a war cabinet between ourselves and two others that we jointly select. All in favor? Those not a part of the cult group cannot vote

I am reading Elantris. (Chapter 9. Don't Spoil!) I've heard many times that Elantris is not as good as the rest of Brandon's books. But I like it (although it's probably a little early to judge) I've read Mistborn (including Secret History) and I know about Cosmere. I wonder if that makes me like Elantris more? Or would I enjoy more if I didn't know anything? whatis your opinion? 1) Elantris as the first book of the Cosmere 2) Elantris after Mistborn or other books ... (English is not my first language. Apologies for possible spelling mistakes)

Welp, I'm still a demon. Only from a different religion. It's been a while. Fear me, etc.

First of all, yay! second of all, we don't want a mini holy war over this. just because you kidnap someone doesn't mean you should be forced into war. simply said, war isn't good. Besides, war is mostly an ego-trip for the leaders anyways, so why do it? We need to be humble and kind. that's all. I'm just asking you don't do this lol. please. The Raven has spoken.

You know, there could be a counterpoint to this theme in RoW, with Raboniel and her daughter. She made a choice that she felt was merciful. It's an antithesis to the decisions of Kaladin and Dalinar in the first three novels. I also feel that Kaladin, Dalinar, and possibly even Navani would seriously struggle with being in Raboniel's position. Navani (who is literally one of the most intelligent people in the Cosmere) didn't even consider what Roboniel did, as a possibility beforehand. She was caught entirely off guard. I could be wrong, but it would be very Brandon-like (to me) to give this example, almost like a ketek, in theme with the first 3 books. And I'm assuming we'll get the culmination of this theme in book 5.

Oh, i forgot to mention, this wasnt just for him.

it could be!(studio c people back me up here)

@Block

ooOOOOOOOooo... Guys I'm a Sliver!! My power grows!!

Well, Marsh has lived for several hundred years now. Is there any reason he couldn't have done in depth study of his condition in all of that time? He is also Harmony's agent when it comes to dealing with Hemalurgists.

Yo, should I make a thread that is just “People to make Just-A-Stick Happy” so everyone can add their name to it?

Well, it says something that I'm responding to this rather than working on my 5-page essay due tomorrow. See: getting distracted, failing to do my homework, and putting off a project. Here are my 2 cents to try make me spending time here actually productive, rather than a continuation of getting distracted and putting off my homework projects. I do think it is possible that going onto 17th Shard can genuinely make someone more productive, but only within the framework of other practices. 17th Shard as a fan forum for entertainment, socialization, and with its own writing corner is not something that screams "I will be more productive by going to this website", and usually the opposite. So how do we make it productive? I don't want to take over your thread @Through The Living Glass and dictate a structure, so feel free to ask me to tweak my post so that it better fits the vision of what you hope it can accomplish. First suggestion is to not make this solely a bragging thread for all the productive people to boast about their awesome accomplishments while the procrastinators feel even guiltier by looking at what everyone else is achieving. Perhaps use a format where whenever someone accomplishes something to try to post the next task/milestone/etc. that they want to achieve? Sometimes it may be fine to post updates and not only completion of tasks, like "I finished the rough draft of my essay, now I just need to read over the copyediting notes my family gave me and rewrite it before tomorrow". Don't compare. Everyone has different skills where some tasks are easier than others. I've known someone who was an amazing organizers and could manage a super complicated shift roster but for whatever reason couldn't clean their room. It's fine to post "I cleaned my room, and for me that's a major accomplishment" right next to "I just recarpeted my room and painted the walls". Don't diminish your own accomplishment just because it feels small next to what someone else did, the direction you are moving is the important part. 17th Shard as a social forum can potentially provide some accountability. If you feel like it would help you personally, ask for something like "I have an essay due tomorrow, if you see me posting random YKYASFW memes in an hour, tag me here and call me out please?" or "I need to write 2000 words a day if I want to finish this before summer. Can someone ask me for updates?" That said, people might get busy doing other things like their own projects, so we may have to see how effective asking for accountability actually is. Last bit of advice, is that it is totally fine to take breaks, but I think there's a big difference between taking a break, and avoiding work. Some tasks are just hard mentally, physically, and/or emotionally and can take a lot out of you. Stopping for 15 minutes or so to decompress can help you get back to the main task with more energy. If 17th Shard is a place where that works for you, awesome. However, if that 15 minute break stretches to hours, then it's a problem. Sometimes simply mentally giving myself permission to take a break, setting a timer, and then doing something fun for a while knowing that I will get back to work can be the difference between feeling like a guilty procrastinator and a productive person simply taking a break. Sometimes taking a break from artificial intelligence to write an essay on Realmatic Theory really does help the brain unwind, not really sure why. Guilt is an exhausting motivator, and it's hard to feel accomplishment if it's the primary driver since it often feels more like "finally, it's over" rather than "Yes, I did it!", so for me at least, trying to minimize the guilt of procrastination is a huge step in getting the actual energy to do the stuff that needs to be done. If the task in front of you feels monumentally big and unbearable to look at, then consider the Pomodoro technique of breaking down your task into smaller chunks of time. Other people have explained it better than me, such as here, but if you can't remember Pomodoro, just look up "tomato clock method" And so, today my first accomplishment is that I wrote an unsolicited essay on productivity. What I intend to do next is apply said essay and get myself to write my actual essay on supply chain management productivity due tomorrow night. Feel free to ask me Friday afternoon how it's coming or if I'm done Saturday morning. If you see me posting elsewhere today or tomorrow, feel free to call me out and see if I'm just procrastinating or if I've actually got something done and I'm just taking a break.

“I’m going to stab someone. In the most loving way possible.” - @Edema Rue

Welcome to the Shard. What I usually recommend to people starting the Cosmere is: There are many Reading Order threads, so it should be easy to search up other thoughts on this topic. As far as "Why" some people consider Elantris "not as good," I feel there are two factors and they be referencing either or both of these based on their own personal preference: Elantris was his first published book, and his sixth written novel overall (see below), where as Mistborn: The Final Empire was his 14th novel written, so he had much more "practice" by the time his other books were published. Elantris is far more cerebral (and politics-based) than stories like Mistborn and Stormlight Archive. Some people simply prefer more action in their stories and therefore prefer those stories and enjoy Elantris less due to that Preference. (Above, I note that Warbreaker is a nice median between the two on the politics/action scale) Publication WoB: Finally, I would like to ask if you are reading the 10th Anniversary edition? If not, you may want to search that out, as there were some changes that needed to be made (which is why a new edition was published for the 10th Anniversary) and the ending can be confusing in the original Edition. There are WoBs about the changes, but since those would have spoilers, I did not post them. Once you finish, if you would like more info on the changes, please let us know (or read this post [spoilers] after you finish which also discusses the changes) Hope that helps.

The WoB we have on this is not definitive, but does have some implications: While Brandon does say they can "go places," he does not say why. Based on the way he says "escape the Expanse of Densities" implies three primary differences, with either or both possibly being the reason they can "go places." It is unclear if any of these factor, or (possibly) all three together are what allows them to move about. Radiant Spren are of two shards, Honor and Cultivation, only one of which is splintered - while Seons are Devotioin only (and Skaze Dominion) which is Splintered Because the base Investiture is different (Devotion) it could be the nature of their bond to "Follow their bonded mortal" - which is an aspect that Honor and Cultivation's Intent would not share Seon's are wholly in the Physical Realm because of how Odium squished the remnants of Devotion and Dominion into the Cognitive - whereas Spren are mostly into the Cognitive, and the Bond pulls them slightly into the Physical (with increased Oaths pulling them more firmly into the Physical) Which implies that if you can get a Seon through a Perpendicularity (protected from the Dor Plasma) and escape the Sel Shadesmar, then they can Worldhop because they are not split between two realms at once (it's closer to how a person Worldhops). (this is my bet as most likely, if only one reason applies) TLDR: We don't really know, but there are some valid lines for theorizing on which, if any, known differences allow Seons to do what they do.

Fate This can be a contradictory topic. If there is such a thing as fate, then why do we do what we do? We can just say "fate happend." There are two arguments to this battle: 1. Fate exists, and everything is predestined. If fate does exist, then what's the point, we can argue that there's no point in trying, because no matter what everything will turn out fine. There's no incentive, no "competitive pay," per se. Whether or not you try you will end up in the same place as you were destined to go. 2. Fate is not real, and we all are failures. If fate isn't real, then that means that we have reason to live, but there's also no end guerentee. We can try all we want, but since our lives are totally in our hands, we cannot be totally 100% sure that we will make it. Even with fate you can be sure you're going to make it to wherever you're trying to end up, you just have to hope that any work you put in paid off. All of this "end," of course, being in this life or the next (if there is an afterlife). Many Thinkers do not believe in fate, that we have control of our own destiny. I think there is no fate. No guerentee on anything in life. Everything is a chance, and you need to take that leap of faith. I have always loved people who try and be life-freeing motivators, because they know they have it right. Life is meant to be free. You need to leave the grind if you want to enjoy it. There are no guarantees in life. Never. You need to work to be able to get anything or anywhere in life, because I think that only you can make sure that you will get anywhere in life. "The only time sucess comes before work is in the dictionary." -Harvey Specter, Suits

YKYASFW you read Yumi for the fourth time, finish it, then immediately restart it.

Me: Okay, as soon as I get home from school, I'm going to do all that Geometry homework I have! Also Me: Ooh, look, the Shard!

Hey everyone! I'm back with some more Cosmere music, this time based on "The Emperor's Soul". I hope you all enjoy it!!

... when 2/3s of your essay on identity for English class is an explanation and deep dive into realmatic theory, spirit webs,and the spirit realm ...and you weren't allowed to look anything up so you did it all off of memory.

By the power of the Almighty Stick and his brown-haired disciples, I LIVE!!!!!!!!!!! I concur

"A scorched-earth policy is a military strategy of destroying everything that allows an enemy military force to be able to fight a war, including the deprivation and destruction of water, food, humans, animals, plants and any kind of tools and infrastructure." ~ Wikipedia Yeah, maybe it is a bad idea-

Since I couldn't find anything on the topic: is there any information about further Star Charts besides the 7 existing ones (Drominad, Nalthian, Rosharan, Scadrian, Selish, Taldain, Threnodite). Has anyone heard anything about charts for the other systems on whose planets recent stories were set (Lumar's system, U'Tol System and Canticle's)?

So if im understanding you correctly you are saying that the contradiction does exist, but Harmony exists that way anyways, which is why hes having such a bad time? I think that just made it click. He should not work this way but he does and that is the issue. I think we are in agreement that if preservation and ruin were properly joined that the resulting god metal would not produce lerasium and atium in a trellium reaction, would not be inherently unstable, there would not be two mists and Harmony would have a pure tone. My disconnect was that I assumed this Harmony situation was an issue specifically because of the opposing Intents, and while it partially is, its really Sazed's failure to combine them properly that has caused the contradiction. As in, this is not the way that a shard combination is supposed to go. Before this I was under the assumption that this was standard as most of the Intents will conflict with each other and cause similar issues.

Kind of. Trellium pushes investiture away, but investiture is in all three realms at the same time, so this doesn't really matter, as it is happening in every realm. One Axon is made out of both Ruin and Preservation's investiture, Trellium makes them split apart, splitting the Axon in two. Matter and investiture are both transformed into energy, that's the explosion, some trace amounts of investiture manifest as solid Lerasium or Atium. Harmony is a new Shard, but at the same time is made out of two Shards. Both sentences are correct and not contradictory, even if it is hard to understand. You can say he's two Shards or that he's one Shard, both ways of looking at this are correct. I get what you're saying and I do agree partially - Harmony is not merged properly. He should be one power, one intent, one investiture, but he's two held by one. But Harmony can be treated as one Shard with two powers, he has his own intent focused on balancing Ruin and Preservation. Harmonium is a new god metal, it's not an alloy of Atium and Lerasium. It seems contradictory, but it isn't - this is the problem with Harmony.

Even when I turn eighteen, I’ll still be immature enough to be called “not an adult”

Dang. I've had literally all those thoughts, and some of them still kinda mess with me. Finding meaning and purpose in life is so...strange.

Sir, i would like to speak about peace. if your idiotic brain cannot understand that, its another way of saying not fighting but you don't have to be friends.

*Awkward Silence* *Cricket chirps* *muffled cough*

Whole-heartedly agree, if you read the linked thread (or any of the many other Reading order threads - link has links to many other similar threads), you may notice that I prefer to not actually recommend a reading order to family, friends, and coworkers - I prefer to give them the information on which stories have spoilers or can be spoiled by other stories so they can make informed decisions on what appeals to them (and how many, if any, spoilers they are willing to tolerate). I actually put together my own Cosmere Intro epub - with a list of all of the stories, a short blurb on Shardworlds to help a reader choose where to start, and Brandon's Essays on his "Laws of Magic" which I send to people who ask where to begin (if they have a way to read eBooks and want it, of course). English is my first language, and I still have many spelling errors, don't worry about it and feel free to ask clarification if needed. May I ask what your native language is?

Yes. I read 10th anniversary It was because of the reading orders that I chose Elantris for reading. But it is always interesting to read more opinions and different tastes. I read a comment that said the appeal of Cosmere is that everyone has a different way of discovering it. I agree with that and would like to hear these different ways. Thanks for your comment

And now I've finished Volume 16 of ReZero. Arc 5 is off to a great start, the ending was really damn good, I wasn't expecting what happened at all. It's taking all that I have to not continue to Volume 17 right now. I NEED to know what happens.

I don't think it will be another bond, because every radiant already has the perfect sidekick-partner-buddy in their spren. I'm agreeing with just the more improving on what they already have. The question with regards to Kaladin though... how do you improve on perfection?

The STICK will protect me. they do not have to. However, if they actively seek to suppress us or go against the will of the One True STICK, then they must be stopped.

Well we have pages for the other sapients in the series and some of them we have less information than humans so to me it felt like a glaring absence.

The fire that will burn the STICKS!

Do you have a reference for this, I cannot find it. All I can find is (RoW Ch 76): So, it is a Rhythm (like the Rhythm of Peace (used for telling time)) but not a Pure Tone. So, I beleive Harmony would have a Rhythm, but not a Pure Tone since it is still separated into the Pure Tones of Preservation and Ruin.

THE GINGERS WILL RULE ALL!

Lots of discussion in this thread and this thread. At the risk of sounding foolish, I'll quote my post from there: I'm not sure that is true (discussed here and here). Harmony holds two shards - but only outside observers sometimes consider Harmony to be a single Shard (WoB below), and we don't know if Harmony was a name Sazed gave to himself, or if the survivors of the Catacendre just started calling him that and he accepted the name: Sazed himself does continue to refer to them as separate. More importantly, he explicitly used the Intent when taking them up that they should be two separate powers, working together (HoA Ch 82): The thing to keep in mind is that Sazed never Combined his shards. He does not hold 1 shard with the intent of Harmony, he holds two separate shards Ruin and Preservation and is trying to do so Harmoniously. The other important note is that GodMetals are derived from teh Vessel, not the Shard. E. .g : ATIum not Ruinium LERASium not Preservatium TANAVASTium not Honorium So, Harmonium is named after the Vessel Harmony, not a "Shard" Harmony (and because both Brandon and Saze hated Sazedium): This is why it is unstable, because Sazed's balance is unstable and because he never (by subconcious Intent - ref above quote where he took up the shards) actually made one Shard out of two pieces. In theory, if he had instead thought "Oh, these belong together. Merged they become <new Shard name>" he might not be having the difficulties he is now, because he would be a Vessel to a Single (larger) Shard with a single Intent - rather than a Vessel to two Shards with opposing Intents that he tries to balance. I would guess there cannot be one "mist" until/unless the powers are properly combined - because the Mist is a manaifestation of the Shard, not the Vessel. We won;t know about Rhythm and Pure Tones until we get confirmation if those change when the Vessel changes. If they are based on the Shard, then it should still be Preservation's and Ruin's Pure Tones and Rhythms. If the Vessel can change a Shard's Tone and Rhythm, then I expect there would be a Harmony Tone and Rhythm.

Brandon's explored this concept before with Elantris. The Elantrians actually had to make laws so their post scarcity capabilities to create goods didn't outcompete the merchants' labor. It's definitely a concept he's thought about before with powers and industry. Two things I think should be considered are: Currently they have bigger worries with the apocalypse and depending on SA5's outcome, such concerns may not matter. The theoretical potential of Surges is bound by the practical and logistical limitations of skill, oath level, knowledge and group coordination. I will agree though that Roshar was never going to develop into an Earth analog. They just don't have the same conditions as we do. Even without the Bondsmiths, Roshar has a built-in massive source of renewable energy that acts as both fuel and light source. I'm not even sure they'll bother inventing electricity and implementing it on a mass scale. They already use Stormlight for heating fabrials so there's no need for electric or gas heaters, gems instead of lightbulbs, conjoiners/reversers for propulsion.

I have a few hairs that look ginger in certain lighting. I don't think it counts though...

Investiture resists Investiture, since the Unmade are relatively 'equal' I'd say no she couldn't. She can only 'enlighten' Radiant Spren with their permission. For 'un-corrupting' I doubt it, it seems like a permanent transformation. After all, turning someone into a Steel Inquisitor or a Koloss is effectively permanent, and Enlightening could have some correlations to that, sort of. As for corrupting an entire Shard? No, absolutely not. She is still just a Splinter, Odium could probably kill her with barely any effort, he just doesn't because she's too useful.

Seems like a reasonable precaution.