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Night 1: Do you have the Mettle? Jack, Bugsy, Quetzal, Sif, Locke. There were 5 people who could and would prevent him from taking complete control of the great houses of Luthadel. He would need to kill all of them before his plan succeeded. So when High House Lord Joseph Tormander sat on the balcony at the ball, and when he saw Jack Tormander begin to fall, he couldn’t keep the grin off his face. Bugsy, Quetzal, Sif, Locke. As the nobles retreated, under the onslaught of the sudden Hasting and Tekiel onslaught, Joseph watched closely, looking for other nobility who were grinning his malevolent grin. And many were. He would have his pick of allies in this matter, but first, he would need to stir the pot. See who would be willing to work with him. Please, Lord Heron, this missive is for your eyes only. I represent a Cabal of Nobles, scattered throughout the houses. We are planning in secret to replace the vast majority of Nobles with Kandra, to unify the Houses. If we do this, those who aide us will certainly be far richer than they could ever be without us. ~High House Lord Joseph Tormander Lord Grumbles Heron placed his letter down on the table, and examined the faces of Altea, Stick, and Magus. “This man is a monster, and I need your help in stopping him. I don’t know who else is in this Cabal, but we need to root them all out.” “Interestingly enough,” Altea replied, “He sent me the same letter, word for word.” She drew out a thin rolled up sheet of paper, and handed it across to Grumbles for comparison. “Magus, Stick? Have either of you heard anything about this?” “Heh, I have.” Magus slipped his letter from his vest, and waved it at her. “And I see Stick has one as well.” There was a large Stick sitting in one of the chairs, and it had an envelope taped to it. Unread, since Sticks are sticks. “Well then. I’m sure you have all thought about this plan,” Grumbles passed Altea’s letter back to her, “What do you all say to denouncing Joseph, and calling for his removal. The other Tormanders are sure to support us. They are a bloodthirsty lot.” The Stick was a stick. “Stick raises an excellent point.” Altea smirked at the insulted Lord Grumbles. “We can assume that we are not the only ones to receive this missive, and that others, less scrupulous, will work with him. If we all independently contact him, and indicate our willingness, we can betray him from within.” “Agreed.” Magus leaned back in his chair. “So, how to go about it?” Lord Heatherlocke, I do hope this missive finds you well, despite the current circumstances of War. It is a War i wish to end, and to end in such a way as to prevent any more from happening. As such, I, and a Cabal of like minded nobles, are pooling our resources to replace key members of the Great houses with Loyal Kandra. But we need a contact within Keep Heatherlocke. The chance for Peace and Prosperity are within your grasp, if you have the Mettle to grasp it. ~High House Lord Joseph Tormander Lord Heatherlocke dropped the letter to the ground, and began to pace. Lord Tormander’s letter awakened within him an old debate. Did the ends justify the means? Was peace, made and enforced through Warfare, worth the cost? Would he be damning the world, or just himself, by pursuing such a plan? And could he justify not attempting Peace? His pacing slowed, and he hesitantly made his way to his desk. My Good Lord Tormander. . . No one was Lynched! No Lynch (7): Bugsy, Devotary, Drought, Jondesu, Mage, Steeldancer, Walin Drought (4): Araris, Eternum, livinglegend, Straw Mafia (2): Sart, Fifth Scholar Shanerockes (2): Stick, Megasif Walin (1): Lopen Night 1 will end in Player List:

To repeat what's already been said in different words, "character development" does not mean improvement. Yes, Shallan regressed. And? This isn't a power up anime. We aren't trying to see what the next super sayan level is.

Renarin, in one of his visions of the future sees what the real reason for the Recreance was, because he sees Dalinar going down the same path as Tanavast. We're all well aware that the Stormfather is the grouchiest of all spren, but he's just a mere splinter of Honor. Honor's true intent was Griping! As Dalinar amasses more and more of Honor's power, Renarin sees him changing in his visions of the future. No longer the man of action that he once was, he sees him puttering around in his bathrobe, complaining about teenagers, and how the modern heatrials aren't as good as the fires from the old days, etc. And Renarin sees that just like during the Recreance of the past, all of the Knights Radiants and their Spren are being driven completely bonkers by Dalinar's incessant backwards looking rants and complaints, and so the spren willingly kill themselves and the Knights Radiants abandon their oaths just to get away from the ceaseless raving inanities of Dalinar. Sorry if this spoiled the back 5 for you all, but this is totally how this is going to play out...

Let me start by saying im not a new member to this forum, just been awhile since was on here, new phone etc and cant remember old log in details or even the email used. Just finished Oathbringer yesterday, had only started reading it on monday, had it for awhile but didnt have the time to read it. That said i will focus on the thread title now. I found this book to be underwhelming and a disapointment. Main reason being the book was mainly filler, (no doubt people will take exception to that point but nonetheless it is true imo) There was little to none story progression, for 1233 page count book there was very little of the actual story told, mostly just filler material to bulk out the book. Character progression was non existant, some characters actually regressed imo, Kaladin. Best character in the books imo. Basically has become relegated to a side note. Shallan After WoR, expected alot more from her character, instead she had identity crisis the entire book. She is annoying at this point and most her povs were pointless and she just makes me cringe, Dalinar Flashback sequence was good, why he went to the nightwatcher was rather pathetic though. Also the dalinar we knew from previous books was a lie and find it hard to believe a spren nevermind the stormfather would bond to the man he was or that people ie kaladin and bridge 4 also Szeth would follow him knowing the truth. Szeth Swearing the 3rd ideal of the skybreakers to follow dalinar when he doesnt know him is also rather odd, found this part to not make a great deal of sense. Adolin I remember after WoR this forum was full of theories about what killing sadeas would do to him, most of ye will also recall this, turns out he just didnt care lol Renarin Useless as ever and bonded to the bad spren, but thats ok.........yeah..... Jasnah Seems altogether to powerful compared to the others, maybe its just her experience but wish was more pov chapters from her. Taravangian Having seen the diagram was wrong so much should of realised even at his smartest he was still woefully inadequete to predict future events and turned from the diagram instead latched on to small bits were right and joined odium Venli Seems to of bonded a normal spren just as a counterpoint to renarin bonding a odium spren in my opinion, eshonai bonding that spren would of made some sense venli bonding it made none. Shadesmer The trip here served no point but to take kaladin/shallan etc out the way for awhile, the chapters about it could be taken out the book and would make no difference Lifr Should be more chapters about lift, interesting character Moash His story unlike most the others did progress and found the direction he went to be refreshing (mirrored kaladins to an extent, difference being he accepted something kaladin refused to), and would of liked more povs from him. Bridge 4 Very lightly involved this time around, teft suddenly being a crack head was a bit weird, and out the blue, everyone suddenly being able to be a squire and proto radiant was also a bit strange imo, bridge 4 understandable, all the other random people joining in hopes of being a squire was bit much and rlain was underused and the little we got was left hanging, Voidbringers Was obvious the humans were the real voidbringers since book 1, found this revelation to be kinda silly and it being the reason for the recreance a bit of a cop out. I realise this isnt going to be a popular train of thought on this forum but it is my opinion, that the book we got wasnt what it should of been, best characters and stories pushed to the side, no real progression in story or character arcs, for the story we got the book could of been cut to a 3rd, as alot was filler material for shake of it, shallan dominated the book and was just a repetive stroy arc all through the book at that, kaladin basically a sidenote and support act, The way of kings was a 5/5 star book Word of radiance was a 4.5/5 book Oathbringer is 3/5 star book at best. I hope the series doesn't keep going on the downward spirial it seems to be going. I realise this (most likely) is all going to probably be cut to pieces by a lot of people, but before ye do that, ask yourself this, is oathbringer really the story ye thought it would be? Or the story ye wanted ? If ye say yes that it is, then id be shocked. If spelling mistakes i apologise, using my phone

Mraize hides aluminum guns from Scadrial in his slippers, and murders the real Ash with these. The "Ash" we think we know is WalDo, the worldhopping Kandra, currently aligned with the Ghostbloods. We learn this in Ashs flashback book, of course.

Oh no? You are generalizing, when not all Spren are the same. Take.. Spark, or Ivory. If Spark is 60/40 in favor of Cultivation's Investiture, does that make them a Cultivation Spren? Then they get corrupted, and the ratio is 30/20/50 in favor of Odium's Investiture, does that suddenly make them an Odiumspren? Ooh, here's a better example. As an Honorspren, Syl is probably 90/10 in favor of Honor's Investiture. Say her corrupted ratio is 45/5/50 in favor of Odium's Investiture. Does that make her an Odiumspren now too? A case could be made that a corrupted Ashspren could be "of Odium," but you can't make that argument with a corrupted Honorspren. We don't know the ratio for Truthwatcher Spren, so an argument can't be made either way. We don't know the type of Spren that Truthwatcher's Bond. We do know that Glys appears to be a corrupted version of a Truthwatcher Spren. That isn't up for debate. He has Progression, which is limited to Edgedancers and Truthwatchers on the KR side. Wyndle(Edgedancer) is a vine, not a crystal, and he doesn't glow either. If Kaladin bonded with a corrupted Syl, still had normal Gravitation, and a new power theorycrafters could easily assign to Adhesion, would you consider him as a Windrunner?

It turns out that Lift has eaten Vax, the dawnshards, Unity, dragonsteel (the material), and the REAL reason for the Recreance.

Hello all! Not quite sure how to start this off so I'll just jump right in. First of all, I am very interested in philosophy. Currently, I have a class about ancient Greek philosophy. When we were going over Plato's forms, it struck me that this idea is incredibly similar to the Cognitive Realm. If you're not familiar with the idea, Plato essentially believed that the Forms were what was most real about an object. If you break down a table, it it just made out of wood. However; there is some sort of thing about a table that makes it a table. That "tableness" is distinct from the wood, stone or metal that makes it up. For Plato, there is another realm, a real of ideals, where things such as Justice, Table, Triangle, ect. all exist at their most real. This sounds incredibly similar to the Cognitive realm and I think that may have been a major source of inspiration for Brandon Sanderson. I'm curious to see if he has said anything on the matter. Additionally, it seems this is not the only thing that he has drawn from ancient Greek philosophy. Now, I haven't read all the Cosmere literature at this time, so this may be completely wrong, but here goes. Heraclitus believed that all things were constantly changing. Sanderson has mentioned that Hemalurgic spikes need contact with the blood in order to actually steal power. He mentioned in a Q&A that it has something to do with the blood being in motion. Motion was tied with life for many pre-Socratic philosophers. This idea is still somewhat half-formed, but I think a discussion on it is warranted. It is possible that the spiritual realm is tied with how objects and people change through time. Something else was incredibly important to the pre-Socratic and some post Socratic philosophers. That was the notion of Arkae, or, roughly, what it means to exist. To me, no unifying theory can be complete without asking this question of the Cosmere. Clearly, for something to exist, it needs at least a Cognitive aspect. However; for something to be sentient, it needs a Spiritual aspect. Motion is life. This is supported by how we see Investiture work on Roshar. The Stormlight encourages those who hold it to move. Investiture is the stuff of life. This also follows from what we know of humanity, Investiture is necessary for the existence of humanity. In fact, I would argue that Investiture is Sanderson's Arkae. Without that, there is no connection between the Cognitive and Spiritual realms, and no impact on the physical realm. In this way then, it would seem that actual magic is largely incidental to the way that reality itself exists in the Cosmere. Thank you, if you read through the fruits of my procrastinatory ramblings. I probably got some things wrong, in fact, I hope I did so those can be pointed out and I can learn something new about the Cosmere! I appreciate any thoughts that you have on this mass of a post! Thank you so much!

He didn't. He expected Thaidakar. When Szeth told him that he wasn't sent by Thaidakar, he threw out Restares and Sadeas names, probably frantically searching his mind for who could gain the most by his death. And those two make sense. Sadeas played the political game well, and was positioned highly. Restares rose to lead the Sons in Gavilar's absence. He didn't expect those two, but he did recognize that his death could advance their claims to power.

You forgot about his GET OFF MY LAWN sign written in stormlight

My five cents: Oathbringer is and isn´t a disappointment. SA is such a huge series, with a lot going on. Some parts are bound to disappoint some fans. Its unavoidable (is unavoidable a word btw?). Personally, I wasn´t really happy with how Amaram was handled. I would have liked to see more Ghootsbloods (specifically Mraize). I hoped to get to know Aesudan. I would have liked for Axies to show up. Graves was killed far too quickly. Adolins arc wasn´t entirely satisfactory. I was more bothered by Lift than I have ever been before. The explanation for the Recreance felt weak. But at the same time, I am very pleased with a lot of stuff in the book. It was incredibly entertaining, from start to finish. Szeth was better than in the previous two. The entire sequence in the Kholinar Palace was great. Killing Elhokar, Eshonai and Jezrien were good decisions. Dalinars arc was beautiful, and does touch me on a personal level. Kaladins arc was great too. I loved the lore we got. Parts of the final battle in Thaylenah were awesome. It was funny. The Unmade are nice. Odium was great as a character. Will we always be pleased with what Brandon does with the Stormlight Archive? No. Will some fans stop following the series because it moves in a direction they don´t like. Yes, most likely. In the end, it depends on what you care about, as a fan. Was Oathbringer a disappointment? Dunno. There is no right, and no wrong. (off-topic, but I have to know: @Ammanas, is that Warcraft Greymane in your sig, or another Greymane?)

Um....firstly humans were the voidbringers, whatever way you paint it, t Now about the mental health issue, what you say is true and also not true, it entirely depends on the person, some are naturally tougher mentally then others im sure you will agree to that ? You said: Expecting characters to always make substantial improvements and stay there is unrealistic, and Brandon does too much research to be able to do that. Now having all 3 main pov characters always suffer relapses for lack of a better word is just not believable. To take shallen for example she made no improvement she actually got worse, so expecting her to make an improvement after WoR is very reasonable her being worse is not.

Disagree on pretty much everything. Kaladin is one of many "main characters" and it was nice to not have this book boiled down to Kaladin saves the day. And without digging into every point... There was a lot of character development in this book. Just because it didn't go in a direction you expected/wanted doesn't mean it wasn't there. Dalinar and Shallan both had major development. Dalinar is a more complete character and had to fight to maintain who he is in his own eyes because of it. Shallan is arguably not the same character as she was at the start of the book. Those kind of changes are character development. Edit: and no, Oathbringer isn't the story I thought it would be. And that's a fantastic thing. If a writer only gives me the story I expect what's the point?

I vote no lynch . Part of the deal with my parents for unlimited internet is not using electronics on Sunday, so I won't be able to get back on today.

Did the missing Shalash statue in the palace at Kholinar get destroyed or was it removed? Maybe Gavilar, a man so devoted to his religious reverence of the Heralds that he thinks bringing about an apocalypse is a fair price to pay for bringing them back, somehow also decided to break up his heraldic statuary set, because reasons. And the "paraphrased" WoB where he volunteers information about that statue in particular after being asked about statues of Shalash in general is paraphrased in the sense of omitting "...Not!" from end of the critical sentence, because additional reasons. It doesn't matter. Regardless of whether Gavilar's Shalash statue was "removed" by the same person who destroyed all the other depictions of Shalash, we know Ash isn't compelled to destroy depictions of all Heralds. Just her. We know this from her PoV, and from observing what has actually been done. And the quote where the narration says Jezrien and then Ash says "father" out loud: the narration is not a direct transcript of the PoV character's thoughts. It has to take some liberties so the reader can follow it. When the viewpoint character's thoughts are being directly transcribed, that's indicated with italics. In this case, since the books are written for a general audience, including people who might not have figured out that Ash is Shalash, or remember that Jezrien is Shalash's father, Brandon dropped in the proper noun, even though the viewpoint character wouldn't have used it. It's a pretty common thing.

So we know we're getting flashback books in the back five from characters that are currently active. Now those flashbacks don't have to be concurrent with the current narrative, but say they are. What crazy stuff is happening right now that we won't find out about for another ten or fifteen years? My money's on May Aladar having a torrid affair with Renarin and/or Jasnah that ends with her being killed to stop her from activating a doomsday fabrial at the moment of Shallan and Adolin's wedding.

I can't wait to hear the details of Hoid and Jasnah's wild love affair as they travelled together through Shinovar!

AG4/AN1 - Day 12: Fire Late that night, long after its inhabitants had stumbled off to bed, the house was quiet. There was no sound, except for the soothing sound of wind blowing through the leaves. The three moons shone watchfully from above, bathing the world in soft hues of blue, green, and red. One hand reached for a piece of kueh as the other dropped a torch. The front door caught fire. - Kharsis woke to the acrid tang of smoke on his tongue. Almighty above! “Fire!” he bellowed. He dashed to the door. “Elion!” “Here,” Elion yelled back. “Out in the backyard!” Smoke poured in from all directions, making Kharsis’s eyes water painfully. He turned to the window, with sturdy shutters meant to keep the rain from coming in. He pounded on it with his fists. “Storming open already,” he muttered. Finally the wood cracked under his fingers, giving him enough of an opening to haul himself through. He fell onto the stone floor of the backyard. Almighty above, what had happened? Kharsis watched in fascinated horror as flames leapt to the roof, red and orange and violet all mixing together. “Kharsis, thank the Stormfather, are you alright?” Elion approached, holding Adani. Beside him stood Helina, cradling her arm and cursing. Blisters rose from angry red skin. “Yeah,” he said, breathing heavily. “Where’s Larsah?” The realisation broke over them all at once. “Storm it,” said Helina. Elion said nothing, his face white. Adani broke into a piteous wail. Kharsis ran towards the house. “Larsah!” he called. “LARSAH!” He scrambled back through the window, into the hallway. Flames danced around him in frenzied glee. Something fell from the roof and he threw himself out of the way, losing precious seconds as he did so. “Larsah,” he said. “U -- uncle?” Kharsis could barely hear Larsah’s voice over the crackling hiss of the flames. “Where are you?” “I -- dining room. Something -- I’m trapped --” Kharsis ran as fast as he could, crouching low to avoid the smoke. He jumped over a patch of fire that might have once been a chair. The further in he got, the more blazing white flames consumed his vision. “I’m coming,” he said, the words devolving into a fit of coughing. Finally he saw her, under what looked like a fallen beam of roof truss. Larsah’s leg lay twisted under it. Broken, probably. Kharsis strained to lift the beam. “Can you walk?” “Don’t know, I --” “Go!” She stood up, winced, and ran. Kharsis grabbed her hand, pulling her faster. Something creaked above them. To the side, a patch of roof fell in. The house groaned around them. Storm it! It wasn’t going to hold for much longer. His eyes blinked furiously, streaming tears from the smoke. “Come on,” he rasped. Almost there. They were almost at the guest room. Something cracked above them. Kharsis looked up. “GO!” he yelled, shoving Larsah forward. The crossbeam came crashing down. A sharp pain in his back. Then, nothing. All credit once again goes to Mint Heron. Mint Heron was a Villager. Day 12 has begun. It will end in 46 hours, at 10pm GMT on the 20th February. Player List 1. Amethyst Scorpion - Villager-turned-Bondsmith 2. Azure Mouse - Sympathiser Worldhopper 3. Amber Vulture - Villager 4. Charcoal Hyena - Cannoc - Villager 5. Chartreuse Penguin - Villager 6. Coral Swan - Elyle - Village Lightweaver 7. Cream Tuatara - Villager 8. Emerald Falcon - Aldrick - Villager 9. Fuschia Ostrich 10. Indigo Weasel - Village Elsecaller 11. Ivory Dragonfly - Nolan - Village Bondsmith 12. Magenta Albatross - Sympathiser Windrunner 13. Mauve Crocodile 14. Melon Dingo - Quentisan - Village Edgedancer 15. Mint Heron - Kharsis - Villager 16. Onyx Flamingo - Squawk - Village Lightweaver 17. Opal Lion - Villager 18. Oxblood Beagle - Jai - Village Willshaper 19. Pearl Chameleon 20. Plum Rhinoceros - Villager 21. Quartz Zebra 22. Saffron Iguana - Emalia - Village Lightweaver 23. Sage Kangaroo 24. Salmon Meerkat - Village Bondsmith 25. Sapphire Elephant - Sympathiser Skybreaker 26. Scarlet Octopus - Village Edgedancer 27. Sunburst Toucan - Vanna - Village Windrunner 28. Taupe Gecko - Villager 29. Turquoise Gorilla - Village Dustbringer 30. Violet Axolotl - Villager

So, I've been going through these posts and haven't yet seen an updated list of the Knights Radiant and what we know of them. So I've made the attempt if theres another, or someone has other info that I didn't collect, I would love to hear about it. We currently know 10-13 out of 37 Oaths, counting the 1st Oath as 1 instead of 10 and not counting truths, which vary. Also taking into account certain theories regards spoken oaths. The Oaths/Ideals of the Knights Radiant tend to go in this type of order. 1st Oath - Fortifies bond with spren, one begins the path towards Knight Radiant. 2nd Oath - Not yet Radiant, but already Surgebinder fully bonded to spren. 3nd Oath - Become a Knight Radiant and receive your Shardblade for most Orders. 4th Oath - This is where most Knights Radiant end their progress, they possibly receive Shardplate and increase in powers on this level. 5th Oath - Ultimate Oath, only a few Knights Radiant reach this Oath, it's about becoming one with what your Order represents . Bondsmiths - I will Unite - These Knights use the Tension and Adhesion Surges and follow the Herald Ishar. There can only be 3 a time as they Bond the Siblings. The Stormfather of course, and possibly the Nightwatcher and Cusicesh. Gloryspren are also associated with Bondsmiths. Known Oaths - 1. Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination. 2. I will unite instead of divide. i will bring men together. 3. I will take responsibility for what I have done. If I must fall, I will rise each time a better man.(Note: We have WoB via Hoidonalsium that Dalinar only spoke 1 Oath at the end of OB. He has only spoken his 3rd Ideal.) 4th and 5th Ideals still unknown. Known Bondsmiths - Dalinar Kholin. Bonded to the Stormfather. He has sworn the 3rd Ideal. Windrunners - I will Protect - These Knights use the Adhesion and Gravitation Surges and follow the Herald Jezrien. They Bond Honorspren. Windspren are also associated with Windrunners. Known Oaths - 1. Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination. 2. I will protect those who cannot protect themselves. 3. I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right. 4th and 5th Ideals still unknown. Known Windrunners - Kaladin Stormblessed. Bonded to Sylphrena. He has sworn the 3rd Ideal. Teft. Honorsprens name is not known. He has sworn the 3rd Ideal. Lopen. Bonded to Rua. He has sworn the 2nd Ideal. Most of Bridge Four, some thirty or forty men and woman are squires. Many have spoken the 1st Ideal and some have probably spoken the 2nd including Skar and Drehy. Lightweavers - I will speak my truth - These Knights use the Illumination and Transformation Surges and follow the Herald Shalash. They Bond Cryptics. Creationspren are also associated with Lightweavers. Known Oaths - 1. Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination. After the 1st Ideal, they speak truths instead of oaths. Known Lightweavers - Shallan Davar. Bonded to Pattern. Pretty sure we have WoB that she is one step ahead of Kaladin. So 4th Ideal. She spoke the truths that all Shardblades were flawed except for hers and that she had killed her mother at the end of WoR. Also, it is said that her other two truths were 'I'm scared" and 'I killed my father''. At least one possibly 3 squires including Vathah. It is suspected that Elhokar was about to Bond a Cryptic, which eventually left with Hoid. Elsecallers - I will reach my potential - These Knights use the Transformation and Transportation Surges and follow the Herald Battar. They Bond Inkspren. Logicspren are also associated with Elsecallers. Known Oaths - 1. Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination. All other Ideals still unknown. Known Elsecallers - Jasnah Kholin. Bonded to Ivory. It is suspected that she has sworn the 4th or 5th Ideals based on her control. Edgedancers - I will remember - These Knights use the Abrasion and Progression Surges and follow the Herald Vedeledev. They Bond Cultivationspren. Lifespren are also associated with Edgedancers(Info courtesy of PhineasGage). Known Oaths - 1. Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination. 2. I will remember those who have been forgotten. 3. I will listen to those who have been ignored. 4th and 5th Ideals still unknown. Known Edgedancers - Lift. Bonded to Wyndle. She has sworn the 3rd Ideal. It is suspected that Adolin Kholin will eventually Bond Maya, who's Shardblade form has an Edgedancers glyph. Truthwatchers - I will seek Truth - These Knights use the Progression and Illumination Surges and follow the Herald Paliah. It is not known what spren Truthwatchers Bond, but it is stated in chapter 53 on page 525 of OB that their spren look like light on a surface after it reflects through something crystalline. It is currently unknown which other spren are associated with this Order. Known Oaths - 1. Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination. Other oaths still unknown. Known Truthwatchers - Renarin Kholin. Bonded to Glys, a corrupted spren. His progression is currently unknown. He is technically only half Truthwatcher, the other half being from the Voidbinder side. Also, the orphanage caretaker Lift met(Called the Stump, courtesy of Rider of the Storms.) is supposed to be a Truthwatcher. It is confirmed by WoB that Ym would have been a Truthwatcher(Info courtesy of Aleksiel). Skybreakers - I will seek Justice - These Knights use the Gravitation and Division Surges and follow the Herald Nale. They Bond Highspren. It is currently unknown which other spren are associated with this Order. Known Oaths - 1. The Ideal of Radiance. Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination. 2. The second oath is the Ideal of Justice, an oath to seek and administer justice. They must Bond a spren before swearing the 3rd Ideal. 3. The 3rd oath is the Ideal of Dedication. They dedicate themselves to a cause or a person. This is where they learn Division. 4. The 4th is the Ideal of Crusade. They must choose a personal quest and complete it to the satisfaction of their spren. 5. The Ideal of Law. They must become law. Become truth. Known Skybreakers - The Herald Nale. His spren is currently unknown. He has sworn the 5th Ideal. Szeth. His spren is currently unknown. He has sworn the 3rd ideal. There is a full Order of perhaps a hundred Skybreakers, many who have sworn the 3rd and 4th Ideals, but none save Nale the 5th. Shallans brother Heleran was a member of the Skybreakers, but probably hadn't sworn the 2nd oath due to not having a living Shardblade of his own. Killing Amaram was probably his mission which would have allowed him to swear the 2nd. Dustbringers - I will seek self-mastery - These Knights prefer the term 'Releasers' and use the Division and Abrasion Surges and follow the Herald Chanarach. It is hinted that Dustbringers Bond Ashspren(Info courtesy of psc92). It is suspected that firespren are also associated with this Order. Known Oaths - 1. Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination. All other oaths are currently unknown. Known Dustbringers - Malata. Bonded to Sparks(Info courtesy of Aleksiel). It is suspected that she has sworn at least the 2nd and possibly the 3rd Ideal. There is a theory that Shalash, Herald of the Lightweavers, Bonded an Ashspren, though this is still unconfirmed(Info courtesy of Rider of Storms). Willshapers - I will seek freedom - These Knights use the Cohesion and Transportation Surges and follow the Herald Kalak. It is suspected that they Bond Lightspren(per Capt Ico's daughter is Timbre theory). It is currently unknown which other spren are associated with this Order. Known Oaths - 1. Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination. All other oaths are currently unknown. Known Willshapers - Venli of the Listeners. Bonded to Timbre. She has sworn the 1st Ideal. Stonewards - I will be there when I'm needed - These Knights use the Cohesion and Tension Surges and follow the Herald Taln. It is suspected that they Bond Stonespren. It is currently unknown which other spren are associated with this Order. Known Oaths - 1. Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination. All other Ideals still unknown. It is suspected that an unknown oath Brandon wrote in a signed book "I will stand when others fall." is a Stoneward oath(courtesy of Calderis). Known Stonewards - The only Stoneward we have seen so far is the Herald Taln, if you count Heralds. It is unknown if he, or any other Herald, has sworn the oaths and Bonded spren like Nale. (Edited: Added secondary spren based on the suggestion of Erunion and info by Aleksiel. "I will stand when others fall." ) (Edited: Corrected the specifics of when Skybreakers Bond their spren. Courtesy of rjl.) (Edited: Added a list of Ideal progression at the beginning. Courtesy of Beatsmorn.) (Edited: Added themes from Arcanum)

Your pretty close, but your swapping the roles of the spiritual and the Cognitive. Things in the Cosmere seem to flow outward from the Spiritual Realm to the Physical Realm. The physical requires all three, the Cognitive requires a spiritual, and the spiritual... Don't know if it can exist independently... But as it is the realm of ideals I think some things have to exist there that don't have a defined Cognitive or physical form. Very good catch on your part.

It's not like the ideas were right anyway. Gavilar leads a country he forcibly united through war and conquest, forced the Highprinces into line through rather.. brutal methods(Yenev), is a member of a secret society that's at war with another one, is trying to reawaken ancient gods and cause global catastrophe, etc... I think he's earned the right to be overly paranoid. It's also probably worth noting that he suggests Sadeas' name last.

It will be revealed that Jasnah can use Transportation and Transformation to create remotely operated simulacra, and every time a darkeyes sass-talks Dalinar or Shallan, it was actually Jasnah.

Glys was corrupted by Odium's investiture, but not by Odium. He is a Truthwatcher spren, "enlightened" by Sja-anat. What that means towards his loyalties is unknown. But just like we have Malata serving Taravangian, the source of the investiture doesn't tell us much. "odiumspren" implies loyalty. We have no reason to think that Glys is loyal to any shard.

I disagree, it is the same thing, I believe its mentioned szeth had a spren come to him, thats how he new the knights radiant were returning, when he came out with this info he was ostracized, and contrary to what he new he followed what they said, based on there reputation for who they were there position in the society etc he denied what he new to be true.

As has been stated, nicrosil stores "investiture" as in the having the ability to store abilities. As to how someone who isn't a nicrosil Ferring can use a medallion to gain those powers... We don't know yet.

Kaladin didnt no who dalinar really was at the time, im guessing szeth doesnt either, if kaladin/szeth see things the same after the revelations about who/what dalinar was moving forward i find that to be not believable. Szeth swearing an oath to dalinar going by reputation doesnt make sense though because he followed the words of the stone shanans or whatever they were called based upon there reputation in there society as well, so its to siniliar to way he got burned by to make senss imo. Your points about taravangian are fair. I just think doesnt make sense for him as a man not to question it, but folowing the point vissy made i agree with them and hes cultivations pawn and thats why doesnt question it. Destroy roshar why ? Because they were the voidbringers No there not, and they look contradictory but there not, To take Shallan for example she made no improvement she actually got worse, so expecting her to make an improvement after WoR is very reasonable her being worse is not. In 99% of Oathbringer Shallan is the same as in WoR, and to a certain degree TWoK, her character has not developed at all to take the first paragraph, after shallan swore the 4th ideal of her radiant order it would be understandable for her to improve from the state she was in, ie identity crisis, hiding from her past, instead she got worse and hid from it more had a bigger identity crisis etc, so that got worse, but its the same issues shes had since WoR and TWoK, so its the same overall, so shes the same person with the same frailties (if can call them that) and while those frailties get stronger (worse) in OB, she is actually the same because the fraities are the same not sure if that will make sense to you or if the wording makes sense its clear in my head at least haha

Yeah. This conversation isn't going to go anywhere. I couldn't stand Shallan in tWoK, she grew on me in WoR, and she developed into an amazing character in OB. If you honestly think that she hasn't changed or developed at all, then your requirements for "character development" are very very different than mine. Same with Dalinar. He says himself that his personality over the recent years has been based on a lie, and has to fight to reconcile who he is with who he's become and it almost breaks him. That's the entire point of his arc, and what allows him to speak his third oath. He faced his past, and still chose to be a good man. What is your definition of character development? because I don't understand how you can say it's not present here.

Its ok if you disagree, I wasnt saying kaldain needed to be the one saving the day in this book, but he was relegated to a side note or a support act in this book. An im sorry but no there was not alot of character progression in the book, and not alot of story progression either. If the book was 400 pages long id agree there was character progression but it was 1233 pages long. Dalinar as a man is a lie. The man we seen in TWoK and WoR, was not real so you cant really say that, and everyone being ok with who/what he was is makes no sense. Shallan regressed not progressed. As i said earlier, story be fine if was a 400 page novel, not a 1233 page one. There was more story/character progression in the first mistborn then Oathbreaker, in fact there was more story/character progression in the first mistborn trilogy then there has been in the 3 1000 page entries in the stormlight archive, If your happy with story progressing at a snails pace with filler worth 500 pages inbetween then thats fair enough. But understand that some people aren't. I didnt dislike the book, just found it wasnt good enough. And thanks its a character from the MBOTF.

Oathbringer is the story that we need, but not the story that we deserve. But seriously, there have been mixed reaction to this book so you are not alone. I liked the book, but it is not perfect by any means. Nice screen name by the way IronBars

I get what you're saying though I largely disagree. I just want to mention one thing. Mental health is rarely a linear progression. There are a lot of false starts, regressions, tangential struggles, and so forth. There are often plateaus and setbacks, even when you generally manage to progress. Expecting characters to always make substantial improvements and stay there is unrealistic, and Brandon does too much research to be able to do that. Also, it wasn't humans are voidbringers. Read the passage again. It ws the real and distinct fear, promised by their god, that they would destroy Roshar, as they did Ashyn. Not liking the reason is fine, but make sure you get the reason right

Glys is, as far as we can tell, a standard Truthwatcher spren that has been corrupted by Sja-Anat. That doesn't make him an Odium spren. You're entitled to your opinion that Renarin shouldn't count as a Truthwatcher for that or any other reason; like I said, it's complicated. The association of Lightspren (aka Reachers) with Willshapers is never explicitly stated, nor is it explicitly confirmed that Timbre is a Lightspren. It's mostly process of elimination. We have accounted for most everything else. The brief version: Eshonai seemed to fit the idea of a Willshaper pretty well, and Timbre was trying to bond her. We have a WoB that Venli is of the same order as her sister. As for why we think she's a Lightspren, compare Captain Ico's description of his father and daughter to Timbre's description of her grandfather. In the physical realm, Timbre communicates with Venli via pulses, and the Reachers on Ico's ship communicate via some kind of similar vibration system through copper conductors. Also: assuming that there were in fact one member (or future member) of each Order represented at the end of Oathbringer, the only orders we don't firmly have a lock on are Stonewards, Releasers (Dustbringers), and Willshapers. We have reasons to expect Ash and Taln to be a Releaser and a Stoneward, respectively, so that leaves Willshaper for Venli.

And who is is to say that some didn't? I believe and have been saying in various threads that some of the members of the more "Cultivationy" Orders which didn't have obviously destructive powers, did leave Rosharan system and figured out how to take their spren along. Puuli's Interlude about his grandfather's foretelling of people coming from the Origin "with light in their pockets" could allude to their descendants bringing those spren back, for instance. They might be trapped in gemstones for transport or something. These ancient Radiants may have, Cosmere Spoilers: And also, there is this interesting WoB (Cosmere Spoiler): https://wob.coppermind.net/events/91/#e817 that offers some other possibilities. Some of the Radiants may have reasoned that in small numbers and without an easy access to investiture they couldn't possibly be dangerous even when living on a world. Which is very true, as far as we know. Yes, I am pretty sure that they did. However, they must have somehow prevented the spren of their victims from returning to their peoples as well, otherwise the reasons for and the circumstances surrounding the Recreance would be well-known among the population of Shadesmar and pre-Recreance spren would still be around. Maybe Nale/the Skybreakers captured orphaned Nahel spren somehow, or even killed them? Kaladin did kill a lesser voidspren tormenting Gavinor with the Sylblade, after all, and Venli felt certain that a Fused could destroy Timbre even without a shardblade. OTOH, we have also been told that it is very difficult to properly kill a sapient spren and they certainly didn't think that they were in danger of their lives from the Fused in Shadesmar, so I dunno.

@Briar King You shall lead us, Winged One, and we shall prevail! Lol, that's a great scene. @officiumdefunctorum I'm in the same boat. I was gonna take a break but now I'm on Memories of Ice.

Yes your right, i didnt think of that as i wrote the most, tarvangian is most likely an unwitting pawn of cultivation against odium, just found it odd as alot of the diagram seems to of got things wrong, key things at that, yet he clings to it anyway and joined odium, was odd in my opinion because the parts being wrong didnt make him question it, maybe that was just because wasnt one of his smart days though im not sure

Seriously? Yes that's paraphrased, but how exactly could that be misinterpreted? The timefrane in which these questions were relevant is as many paraphrased WoBs as not. Some are far more reliable than others. Being paraphrased in itself isn't automatically a point towards its invalidity. In Arcanum, unless we have an audio source or a link to text as written by Brandon it's marked as paraphrased even if the wording is perfect. Even if the person putting the WoB into Arcanum is the person who received the WoB. That WoB is pretty clear. If you want to say that the report is worthless because it's marked paraphrased that's your prerogative, but Baxil's mistress, Shallash, is the one who destroyed that statue.

@Briar King Well now I'm thinking about Beak and his childhood and am sad. In other news, I am terrible and can't get off the Malazan train and just started my book 6 re-read. Corabb is the best thing. Leoman doesn't deserve him. "You are Leoman of the Feathers, and it shall be as you say."

Lopen and the ground.

Brandon Sanderson once punched Adonalsium so hard that it caused the shattering. Brandon was once known as Brandon the Creative. He once had a drink with Tavanast. He grants the Nightwatcher's boons.

I'd need some specific examples. It's laid out in the Steel Ministry faction card: "When a problem card with the STEEL MINISTRY trait erupts or is solved, you may ignore any effects that apply directly to you." So if a STEEL MINISTRY card says "Ruin 1 resource" then you can still target the Steel Ministry player, but they can choose to ignore it. Similarly for any other eruption/solution effect that could be applied to the Steel Ministry player. It's a powerful in-game effect to balance out the relative weakness of their resources. The Steel Ministry player doesn't control anything besides whether s/he is affected by such cards. They can't "decide who gets affected" by them or the like. Note that the STEEL MINISTRY ability applies to both eruptions and solution effects: Minor Revolt adds 1 Unrest when solved (so nothing directly applying to the Steel Ministry player), but has an Eruption effect of "Each House destroys 1 of their resources" which the Steel Ministry can simply ignore while everyone else suffers. No on the Seeker, but I think maybe(?) you're fine last-chance casting cards before resolving eruptions. On page 20 they use Seekers as the example of why you can't just use all your cards in response to someone Seeking you: This game doesn't have a stack like Magic the Gathering, it has a queue. Kind of: while any cards you've said you're playing are queued up and will be resolved after the other Personalities ahead of it, they're still technically in your hand in the interim. Yes. No, this going back to the "Personality cards are resolved in the order they are played, and each must be resolved completely before another Personality card is applied." By the time your Soother would be affecting the problem, it's already erupted. It survives. Hazekillers and Smokers reverse the queue and turn it into a stack, so the most recent Hazekiller haze-kills the older one, which then isn't there anymore to resolve and counter the original Personality card. See page 21. No. Since each card resolves completely before the last, by the time you tried to resolve the second Soother the problem is gone and it either fizzles or goes back to the player's hand, depending on generous you're feeling. Though in this case the second player would probably just choose not to play their Soother after seeing the first do it for them. There's nothing in the rules saying you can't, that I recall. You just can't show the rest of the table to prove you're not a lying liar who lies. Page 15 goes into "May I Show my Hand" and calls out the hand-looking from Seekers as being unique in that it's private between the two players. It's likely more of a strategy and/or House Rules thing, as it may not be to your advantage to share that info and/or your playgroup might get annoyed at you.

Personally, I’m hoping for it to be the behind the scenes Marsh story he mentioned to me at a signing a couple months ago. It’s probably not, but I can hope, right? EDIT: by the way @Dunny, you totally failed with your thread title. You should have named it “there’s always another secret project”

Gavilar wasn't dressed for practice

This might also explain why stormlight is used as currency in Shadesmar.

I just bought new shoes and my feet are warm and happy.

I'm not actually speculating on the reason for the Recreance, just that the spren had to have agreed with what their bondmates decided. But some tangential answers... 1. Honor was dying. He was stating as fact that surgebinders would destroy Roshar as they did Ashyn. Nale and Ishar believed that without Honor, surgebinders were too dangerous to resist. So taking advantage of Honor's ravings, they used their influence to convince the Knights that they were a danger to the world. Spren don't see death the way we do. Pattern and Syl had no problems with being "dead" for a while. Pattern is completely nonchalant and expecting Shallan to kill him. The cultivationspren that helps the team in Shadesmar was willing to lie and cover for them to get away. As far as we've seen, they are quite self-sacrificing. So if it's a choice between them dying and the entire world, and all the spren and creatures and people on it dying, it's pretty obvious what they would choose. The Skybreakers believed Oaths and Laws and Promises took precedence over any independent "right or wrong" mentality. So their spren would be the least likely to agree, and the Skybreakers themselves would be very unlikely to agree. They might also have pretended to agree, but instead went their own way. 2. The Recreance happened all at once because they needed the maximum shock factor in order to horrify the spren enough that they would not want to bond again. What's more horrifying? A few dying every few days or weeks or months? Or thousands all at once? 3. Since the spren agreed that surgebinders had to end, they had to do something so diametrically opposed to their Oaths that it would break their Oaths anyway. What better way than to drop their Shards near the front line of a warzone where they knew people would be, knowing that those people would lust for, claim, and wreak havoc, with the bodies of their friends? We've only seen the beginning of the powers that the Radiants have. And already a few of them have done things that should be impossible. Abrasion...can it increase friction as well as reduce it? Can it increase, say, the friction of a rockslide so that the rocks, pulled inevitably downward anyway, strike flames and cause a huge fire? Could they reduce the friction of the air around an ocean wave and cause a tsunami? Could they grow plants so quickly that their roots and branches crack and break stone and cement? Could they work in combination with other surgebinders to do even crazier things? Bondsmiths literally bond with the most powerful spren in the world. Dalinar can create perpendicularities. He can supercharge surgebinders so that usually extremely difficult things can be done easily. A group of Edgedancers or Lightweavers could vaporize an entire city. I'm almost positive Lightweavers or Dustbringers are responsible for the Shattered Plains. Given that the Plains seemed to have been shattered shortly before the Recreance, that's a prime example of what surgebinders unchecked could do. Brandon has said that of the 3, the most dangerous would be Dalinar, followed by Shallan, with Kaladin coming in third. Lots of bad things could be done with Radiant orders or combinations of Radiant orders.

To compare the two, imagine a slow pulse of those effects: Gravity works applying a constant acceleration to the object regardless of the object's mass...This means the object start to move to an increased speed as long as the gravity keep going (until he reach Final Velocity but it's not something meaningful here). Imagine it like an object on perfectly plain ice weakly pushed with a finger by someone near A Push/Pull instead applies directly a force to the (metallic) object. the object (or you) will still start to move but for completelly different mechanics, it starts directly at his full speed allowed by the Push/Pull. Imagine it as a ball hitted by a bat. The two of them could act in similar ways with some assumptions, like assuming the Pull generates an incredible amount of G Force to allow bullet to gain so fast that extreme speed, but if that is the case the bullet will keep going faster to an extreme velocity in a couple of seconds. Lastly, Gravity is never repulsive TLTR: Gravity can't be the source of the Steel/Iron Allomancy because those magics can't be profiled with the effect of a G force.

That's all I really mean. Taken on its own, I would have appreciated the agency Shallan shows, for sure. But the sheer frequency of this 'arranged marriages always work out if you just put in the work' trope is starting to grate on me in its totality. That said, I deeply appreciate the richness Sanderson has shown in his female characters in this series. Jasnah is badass, I just plain like Navani, and Lift is probably one of my favourite characters at this point. I wish this one thing didn't bother me so deeply, because I so enjoy those other bits.

I agree. Their relationship has always been a bit adolescent and immature to me, and Kaladin is way too mature (even though he makes stupid decisions sometimes) for Shallan. Adolin and Shallan make much more sense, and throughout the book, I absolutely rooted for them and against her and Kaladin. Adolin seeing the "real" Shallan and accepting her for all her flaws and her insecurities worked well for me. I still don't like her much, but I like her more with him. Another refreshing part about the love triangle story was how much Adolin and Kaladin respected each other and didn't turn it into some sort of testosterone fueled disagreement. Their friendship is refreshing, and it could have turned out extremely clichéd.

When your teacher asks you to come up with someone that is an expert at what they do, you write Brandon Sanderson. And that's how I found out that my teacher is very Cosmere-aware.