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Amaram is one of my favorite SA characters (and Cosmere characters in general). The main problem with him as a character, is that Brandon didn´t show enough of him. You can piece together his character with hints in the text, but he doesn´t get the page-time he needs. I think this is the reason for why he is disliked. A lot of people either just thinks he is a bad human being, or a flat out bad, bland character. I disagree with both of those statements, and here is why (essay incoming): First thing to understand about Amaram is that he is a religious fanatic. The fact that he is part of the Sons of Honor is proof enough of this. The things he does for that organisation (betraying Kaladin and planning to bring back the Voidbringers) are obviously very bad things. Amaram goes through with this because he believes it will bring the best possible end result, which, in his world, appears to be a mass conversion to the Vorin church. We, as readers, see that this is a pretty bad idea, but Amaram doesn´t. He is consumed by his religion, and probably wants to "save" the world by saving the souls of the people/helping them get to the Tranquiline Halls, and turn their focus back to the Almighty. I can see why this would appeal to him, considering how religious he apparently is. From his point of view, mass conversion is a good thing. A lot of people disagree with this worldview. I disagree with it. But we can not really call someone evil just because their ideal world is different from ours. The other major thing about Amaram is his thirst for glory. He wants to be a hero, and he wants to save the world. He wants to be the good guy. He mentions how his mother raised him to be the best soldier in the history of Alethkar. It does sound like he had lofty ideals to achieve from a young age, placed on him by his mother. That might explain where his thirst for glory comes from. Finally, we have his guilt. The guilt is what eventually breaks Amaram. He hates the things he has done. He says so time and time again. He hints that Restares had to talk him into killing Kaladins men. He spares Kaladin because of his guilt. He feels bad about the casualties during the Desolation he has tried to cause. Partially, this hurts him because he is a good person, deep down. He is kind to his servants, he tries to help Tien and calm down his family, he is known for being a nice person to most people. He lapses sometimes, and hides it, because he is afraid that his reputation will fall, and thus, his (and his mothers) dreams of glory. I think those dreams are another reason for Amarams guilt. He knows that he has failed. That he isn´t the hero he wants to be. And then, Odium comes. Somehow, Odium manages to show Amaram that the Heralds lied, and that the Almighty is dead. He shows Amaram that his religion is a lie. The only thing Amaram had to justify his actions, his religion, is now gone. He breaks down, just like Dalinar does after killing Evi. He gets the same offer as Dalinar. Odium promises to take away his guilt. Not every human being is as strong as Dalinar. Actually, most people probably aren´t. Amaram isn´t. He joins Odium, to get rid of his pain. Then he eats a gemstone, and gets digestive problems (also known as Yelig-nar), before he is finally headshot by Rock. In-world, Amaram will most likely be remembered as the despicable scumbag who betrayed mankind and got what he deserved. That is a very tragic fate, considering that he started out as a man who tried to follow his mothers wishes, and do good for humanity. That is how I see Amarams character, anyway.

Im on it. edit: and here goes

This may be weird to some other people, but I hate magic systems that are dependent on bloodlines (with the exception of stuff like vampire/blood magic, since the blood IS the magic). As such, a large part of Mistborn's magic system just never resonated with me. What I love about Surgebinding isn't so much that the magic itself is cooler or more powerful than that of Mistborn, but how the magic system is oath-based and is tied more strongly to how the characters act, rather than who the characters are. Basically, allomancy/feruchemy are dependent on WHO you are, while surgebinding is dependent on who you ARE, if that makes sense.

No. Timbre talks about how her grandfather died in the Recreance. Eshonai is dead and gone. Brandon is not allowed to bring her back on pain of stern looks and lectures. Eshonai being a Cognitive Shadow wouldn't give Venli access to surges. Eshonai would need an extra infusion of investiture to become a Cognitive Shadow. None of the current Shards would be likely to do that. (Sorry, I just hate that theory with a vengeance. Nothing personal.)

I just wanted to highlight what I think would be the opposite of these. Instead of dueling, he's warring. Instead of lounging, he's leading. Instead of courting the occasional pretty girl he's getting married. Not sure how happy Adolin is about any of this, but at least there's evidence to foreshadow his eventual abdication.

I'm curious. Why does this affect you so much? At most, all that he took was the name and perhaps some physical characteristics. The rest of the character is entirely fictional and part of the world. Writers use real life people as building blocks for their characters all the time, often quite openly. Brandon has a cast of thousands in his books, so what harm him giving some of his biggest fans and supporters something special? I believe Brandon has said that Lyn's character has grown from what he originally intended, which shows that adding her actually expanded the book in some small way that may not habe happened otherwise. If that way was to give voice to a female character who wants to challenge traditional gender types, then that's even better. If these characters were written poorly, or stood out like bad product placement im a TV show, then I'd agree with you. But if you didn't know beforehand about Lyn's origin, I highly doubt you'd have noticed. I certainly didn't.

This (awesome!) discussion has made me think more about Adolin's character flaws, including his inability to maintain relationships, and what we see reflected in OB. Before going on to the flaws which still exist, these are the flaws which I see as "solved" or no longer existing in OB: Hot-headed/rash decisions: This flaw came out significantly in WoR, with both Adolin's imprecise challenge which lead to the 4v1 duel and his killing of Sadeas. As far as I see in OB, we see a very measured and thoughtful Adolin, so this seems to be an extinct character flaw. This makes sense; not only is this a flaw which can be related to immaturity, Adolin had life experiences which made him examine (and correct for) it. Particularly with the 4v1 duel, he beats himself up for his rashness so it would be natural that he learned from it. One learning moment I see is when early in WoR he flings himself up a building when fighting the Parshendi with Relis Ruthar (Relis mentions how crazy it was) at Narak we see Adolin take a thoughtful approach by cutting through the building; clear progression in his approach to battle tactics and being less rash. Arrogance: Primarily related to dueling, and we have a WoB that Adolin isn't as good with the sword as he thinks he is. The lack of this in OB also makes sense as it is part of Adolin's arc to be questioning where he is in the new era of Radiants; he now doesn't have much reason to be arrogant, as there are characters who could end him despite his Shardbearer status and skill with the sword. But regardless, this no longer presented as a character flaw. Superiority complex: I don't know how to "title" this, but whatever flaw led to him being unable to accept Kaladin's orders on the Tower battlefield and then hate Kaladin for that insubordination for half of WoR. This trait is also what I ascribe to his condescension of Skar and Drehy at the Battle of Narak before they prove their worth. (Note I don't want to call this racism against darkeyes, because Adolin's issues seem more connected to wanting people to stay in their place rather than a lighteye/darkeye dichotomy.) This also seems resolved by OB, but follows naturally from Adolin coming to appreciate Kaladin, Skar and Drehy (and in fact Kaladin thinks Adolin is now too friendly and equal with Skar and Drehy!) It helps that Adolin is now down the pecking order a bit due to his lack of Radiant status. Onto the faults which I think are still present: Lack of commitment to romantic relationships: Like many of you note, this isn't a "womanizer" per se, but Adolin is portrayed as not being committed to his romantic relationships; he tends to drive women off through lack of effort more than anything else. (There does seem to be some flirting as well, but he doesn't seem to do more than looking at other women - he's definitely not an aggressive pursuer or anything.) I obviously believe this is not over in OB, and partially because of how it would have to be presented to readers in order to make it clear it was over. As @Rainier notes, the first "flaw" of Adolin we see in WoK is his relationship issues with women - it's a large source of conversation among characters throughout WoK and WoR. It's part of the reason we get a causal with Shallan at all. Absent a magical disappearance of this flaw, the only consistent way we could explain its absence is a reliance on the trope that Shallan is The One (TM) who transformed the former player (credit @SLNC for pointing out that this trope isn't lambasted like the braided rose one.) (Note I use "player" loosely for "not committed to romantic relationships.") I see this reading a lot; Adolin is in love with Shallan, and so we're supposed to infer this is why his relationship issues go away - he was just never in love before. But the successful execution of this trope by an author depends on Adolin's feelings; indeed his feelings are really the only ones which matter for this trope to work; it's not the romantic interest's perception (i.e. Shallan's PoV) of the player's feelings which matter in the trope, but how the player feels so strongly for the romantic interest that he/she no longer has the issues which caused the player behavior in the first place. I don't think this trope can be considered executed without seeing these feelings strongly from Adolin's PoV. Emotional insensitivity with women: The WoB below this section started my thinking about how Adolin reacts to Shallan when she's in emotional distress. We see his tone-deaf reactions multiple times - when she's in distress at the idea of learning the sword and creates Radiant, when she finds out Kaladin killed Heleran, when she comes back from her breakdown as Veil and he just comments on her "nice outfit." I would argue that the Honor's Path conversation is a bit tone-deaf too (see next section for my thoughts on that), though I know others see that as a good moment. Overall, we see at least three times where Shallan has intense emotional reactions that he doesn't pick up on. This seems to echo what went on earlier with women; for instance it doesn't seem to register with Janala that she's upset and bored when he drags her along to the strap investigation. At the very least, it shows he's not good at reading Shallan. The following are things which I'm not sure if we are supposed to see as faults or good things, but I think we have an argument they are faults: Abdication of duty: Someone mentioned above (sorry for not remembering who!) that when Adolin talks to Azure on the Reachers ship, his sense of duty and serving his family is very strong; he will be king if they need him to be. Later of course, he uses the Sadeas murder to get out of this. This is something we see with Adolin from the beginning - he talks about wanting an easy life of dueling and pleasure ("He'd happily spend his entire life dueling, lounging, and courting the occasional pretty girl." WoK, Ch. 12, Unity) although he knows this isn't the path he should take, and until this moment, we see him prioritizing duty over this desire for an easy life. Again, I don't know if this is seen as "good" since Azure encourages it, or if this is "bad" since living up the one's responsibilities is a big theme in the book. Lack of remorse for killing Sadeas: This one we've talked to death; is the fact Adolin ends up happy he killed Sadeas a good thing or not? On the good side, in-world it's mostly considered good and there is a WoB which says Jasnah killing the thugs in Kharbranth is worse. On the flip side, a consistent theme is that killing, regardless the circumstances, is something which causes personal consequences for the character. Also an open question. This interesting thing with all of these character flaws (accepting the latter two as faults) is that what we have left are flaws which either show Shallan's flawed read of Adolin or which we see her exacerbate. She thinks Adolin is in love with her whereas he is not. She thinks Adolin understands her whereas we see multiple time he cannot read her and reacts in an emotionally insensitive manner. She encourages him to not become king. She is happy he killed Sadeas and supports his lack of remorse. It seems like all of Adolin's potential ways to grow through character failings relate to Shallan or things Shallan has encouraged in him. The other possibility is the reemergence of flaws which were present earlier but weren't in OB; the obvious one is the brash/hot headed behavior coming out against his father when he finds out Dalinar caused Evi's death. (The one thing I don't like about that as much - not that I don't think it will happen - but like with the Sadeas killing, readers actually want Adolin to be mad at Dalinar, so even if it's an "angry" reaction, it still will not be a character flaw which will cause readers to be disappointed in Adolin. I think to really connect with a character you need to see them fail and make choices you as a reader find bad so the high moments have more emotional impact.) Thoughts? Am I missing faults (especially ones in OB) on these lists? ****** As mentioned above, my reread of Shallan's conversation in Shademar with Kaladin and Adolin caused me to have a few reactions. First, Shallan actually tries to tell Kaladin about her split personas first - she actually seems eager to divulge this to someone (to Kaladin first and then later to Adolin) - but Kaladin brushed past her comment about how "pretending fragments me" to talk about himself. Second, both these boys are so self-focused and kind of suck. Kaladin is both worse (because he idolizes clearly unhealthy behavior) and better (because at least the conversation started off about him and he just failed to pick up on the disturbing things Shallan says) than Adolin who turns a conversation which is about Shallan into a conversation where he can unload about killing Sadeas. I know this is personal preference, but I find it irritating when person A confides something to person B, and person B makes their reactions all about person B instead of person A. Note that Shallan has to lead him back to her original issue (which personality to prefer.) But that brings me to third, Shallan's opening question of "which one do you like the most?" is profoundly disturbing to me. We see after Thaylen City she chooses the personality Adolin selects, but for some reason I hadn't put it together that she'd blatantly asked him to select what he considers the "best" her previously; she is showing here she wants to be whomever Adolin wants her to be. Fourth, when Adolin says he wants the real her and likes "what's inside", we know he doesn't have any clue "what's inside", since Shallan has been hiding that from him (as she says in Kholinar how she covers up that side for him.) Fifth, I'm not sure what to make of the "So warm. Comfortable. And strikingly unfamiliar." comment from Shallan at the end of this. These are good feelings, right? I see them as good. But I see them following a conversation which is a bit disturbing - asking your significant other to choose the best you to be and then having him say he likes what's inside when you know you've hidden what is really inside. The only way I can reconcile my impression of the conversation is that this is opposite of what Wit told Shallan she needed to face - that is was "alright to hurt" and to "accept the pain" - which she is not doing by instead relying on Adolin to make her feel warm and comfortable instead of facing what is inside her. (The obvious flip side is that this conversation shows how Adolin loves the real Shallan and this makes her feel safe and loved.) Anyways, any other thoughts appreciated. ****** For the sake of argument, let's assume all three guys are interested in romantic relationships with men and Renarin is not Kaladin's subordinate. Why do you like Kalarin better than Kadolin? (Side note related to this; I don't think I've read a Brandon male character's attraction which reads more sexually than Kaladin's for Shallan. Even if he doesn't "love" her, it's pretty clear he would jump at the chance to sleep with her (putting aside in-world social conventions which would stop him from actually doing so.) The only one which comes close is Dalinar's hots for Navani.) ***** This is totally unrelated to the above, but it's about Kaladin, so I guess I can fit it here... Kaladin's "future sight" at the lighthouse in Shadesmar. We are told by WoB and in-world (by Hoid and others) that future sight is a negative thing. I think we can say that Kaladin in his dip into the spiritual realm had future sight of Dalinar as Odium's champion. So was this negative? (One of the things that made me think of this was on Honor's Path when Kaladin is brainstorming with Shallan about how to get to Thalyen City, she notes his sense of "motion" (in italics) which reminded me of all of the "momentum" references. That's of the Thrill - which isn't Kal's issue - but I thought it was an interesting observation by Shallan.) If this was negative, what were the consequences of Kaladin's future sight? What I could think of was that if the Shadesmar group had shown up in Thaylen City and Dalinar, as was expected, became Odium's champion, that group could have been killed. But how would they even have passed into the Physical Realm... I'm a bit confused about how we're supposed to read this given future sight = bad yet Kaladin's future sight = getting our crew where they needed to be and ended up being good. Thoughts? Wow, this was long! This is apparently what I spew out after not posting much for a couple days....

How Timbre looks in Shademar: Edit: In Spanish Timbre=doorbell.

Got to be Way of Kings Chapter 67 for me. So. Much. Epicness.

I don't know.... I mean he was dating one woman and hit on her sister at the same time at one point. It is why they broke up. I don't think "womanizer" works properly as an epithet for him, but his commitment issues are a thing. Given that there is a WoB on Adolin self-sabotaging his relationships, I do agree that we have to assume he has done this multiple times. The thing is, I am less sure why he does it so consistently. I mean, I get that he lacks confidence in this area, but that doesn't mean he lacks confidence in every area of his life. It is not clear to me why he lacks confidence in this area - he seems happy to approach women of various descriptions and start things off most of the time. My personal take is that Adolin is more concerned with the appearance of his love-life than the depth of it. He is certainly concerned with appearances in other settings, not only his own. I suspect this is the real damage that Dalinar's treatment of him caused - he needed to be loved/accepted etc and so tried to portray the perfect son (nb reflects Shallan's perfect daughter issues) and he tries to be the perfect boyfriend/fiancee/husband as well. Unfortunately for his wife, he is not nearly as committed to her as he is to Dalinar (at least not yet) and so he gets bored eventually of pretending to be something he isn't. I personally don't blame him. Don't get me wrong, he genuinely likes Shallan. I think he cares for her. But, once again, he is the normal one here. Given the brevity of their relationship, the fact that until recently they have always been heavily chaperoned, the formality of the causal, and the fact that he has pushed away every other eligible woman, it would be very odd for him to have depth of feeling yet. The problem arises because he has manoeuvered himself into a position where he has to marry her. That is, until he sees an out - then he uses it. Unfortunately for him, she doesn't let him and they end up married. I don't think Adolin is completely aware of his self-sabotaging behaviour - he certainly doesn't seem to be anyway so he seems happy enough in the marriage. I just think that both he and Shallan are telling themselves a lie here to make the marriage work. That isn't healthy for either of them. It will unravel unless some serious honesty happens. Perhaps even that can't save it. So as @maxal ointed out there is a WoB on this. But having low self-esteem in one area doesn't mean he lacks confidence in other areas. I suppose you could even argue that both Kaladin and Adolin have less confidence in romance than they do in other parts of their lives. They are young, its normal. Indeed of the 3 of them, Shallan shows the least concern in this area - particularly once she already feels more secure about Adolin. I feel that Adolin spends most of his time wearing a mask of sorts. He has pretended that he is the perfect son and prince for so long (for Dalinar) that he does it automatically now. It isn't like Shallan's situation, and I don't think it is "unhealthy" except that it risks him blowing up against expectations - like when he murdered Sadeas. If he genuinely is more concerned with appearance (nb he notices appearace a lot - eg he notices Danlan matches her wine to her outfit) then his moral outlook will be very much greyer than (eg) Dalinar's because it will be more fluid to fit in with the people he is on display to. There is nothing wrong with that - indeed it actually makes him a very useful secondary character because his morality will allow him to do things others can't or won't in similar situations. I agree with this. I would even argue that he deliberately annoys girls to get them to break things off for him. I don't know about you, but I've done this with 1 ex and it is very effective, although in my case it took far longer than I'd have liked!

As the title says I believe that Shallan and Adolin will get divorced let me explain. First, I believe that Veil contains the most truthful version of who Shallan really is, I go into much greater detail in this linked post below so feel free to check my logic there. And we know who Veil prefers romantically and what she thinks of Adolin. Next we have this WoB: Now this was Pre-Oatherbringer but I still think this is relevant because what do you think this is mimicking? I propose that this situation is mimicking the other Triangle, Gavilar-Navani-Dalinar. And we do know how that one ended. Now I dont see Adolin dying and I am NOT saying that Kaladin will end up with Shallan. What I am saying that it would open up a lot of things storywise. Next we have almost every other kind of relationship you can imagine: Dalinar and Navani widowed and remarried, Sebarial and Palona not married, and a mentions of a Gay romance. Brandon usually likes the full set of these things I feel. And Lastly the marriage felt really rushed, it felt hasty and we didn't even get to see it! Maybe I'm reading too much into this but my gut tells me there is something there. Some of the issues divorce would bring up to the series: 1. More problems with the Vorin Church. I'm not sure how they view divorce but I'm going to go out on a limb and say they aren't fans of it and I think Brandon with those sons of honor is looking to explore the Vorin Church more as an organization. 2. Broken Oaths and Syl. IF Shallan did try to pursue Kaladin, or vice versa, after a divorce I don't think Syl would be as up for it as she originally was since she is honor spren, so that added dynamic would add a lot of interest and tension. 3. Adolin broken. People want Adolin Prince Charming to be more fleshed out and interesting. Well with the storm coming his way for Sadeas murder and a Painful Divorce I think they may get what they wish for. These are all conflicts that would give brandon a TON to write about and add strength to the future books.

Amaram's retort against Dalinar was brilliant in book. No nuance? I have to say that Oathbringer has its flaws, but unnuanced evil is not one of them. There isn't an antagonist in the joint without a good reason to do what they do - and in many cases, good reason to view themselves as the hero of their own story. Amaram is right on with his critique - if we saw no internal monologue from Dalinar, he'd be seen as MUCH worse. The only difference, the difference that matters enough to make one the antagonist? One chose journey before destination, the other chose the destination first.

It depends on what you like/want from the magic system. I like both for different reasons. For craziness and power Stormlight is definitely superior. It's got so much to it that we don't understand and it's just ridiculously powerful. Mistborn is much better understood. We know, other than the limits of hemalurgy, and the functions of a few feruchemical metals, what it does and what it's capable of it has hard limits and can be manipulated in ways that are easily understood and quantified. At least until we understand the rules and limits of surgebinding better, the Metallic Arts are the better defined magic system. And that's what a lot of people like about Brandon's magic to being with, so that's probably where you're getting that vibe from. Personally, I like Stormlight more as a story, but if we go just by the magic, I'd go with Mistborn. That may change once we learn more about surgebinding.

I got some fantastic news today!! But it requires a bit of backstory before it will make sense. So the week before Thanksgiving, I had to stay in the hospital for a few days to treat an infected wound in my leg. (I think I posted about that on the Shard back while it was happening or shortly after.) While I was in the hospital, the doctors ran some other tests: They measured my fasting blood sugar, found it was higher than normal, and then did a test called an A1C, which measures your average blood sugar levels for the past 3 months. My A1C came back with a result of 7.0. A1C results of 7 and above are considered diabetic because it means your blood sugar has been consistently higher than is healthy. So I had to start testing my blood sugar twice a day and changing my diet to include less sugar and fewer simple carbs (breads/pastries, potatoes, sugary desserts, sodas, etc). All that happened at the end of November/start of December 2017. Since then I've made a major effort to eat better: avoiding things that will raise my blood sugar and replacing them with vegetables, lean meats, fish, and snacks that are less carby and more fat/protein like cheese, nuts, olives, Slim Jims, and so on. Today I had a follow-up appointment with my primary doctor to check how I was doing, and they tested my A1C again. This time the result came back a 6.0! For reference, an A1C of 5.5 is considered normal and non-diabetic. So I am very pleased about having made that much progress in only about 5 weeks. I've also lost about 9 pounds (~4.1 kg for all y'all metric users) since my last visit to the doctor, also 5 weeks ago. I haven't been able to lose any notable amount of weight for... wow, at least 8 years (since I started high school), so to drop that much just by changing my eating habits is very rewarding. My doctor said she thinks I'll probably have made myself non-diabetic when I see her again in 3 months, and I think she's right.

This is a minor theory. At his death, Miles gives what sounds like a death rattle. I propose that this has nothing directly related to Moelach or the influence of a shard. Rather at the moment of his death he was burning not only feruchemically charged gold, but uncharged gold as well. (Maybe he instinctively drained a gold metal mind instead of burning it, then inadvertently burned it for gold allomatic effect.) I think that looking into the spiritual realm by allomatically burning gold at the moment of death would be enough to trigger a death rattle.

OK, Lyn is a character who has some personality that happens to be based on a real person. So are the majority of Bridge Four. They're based on Brandon's friends. One of them is named Peet. As in Peter Alhstrom. Lyn is no different. If you'd never been told she was an homage to someone, she would have been an odd character jumping into the book, would have joined Bridge Four just the same, and this would be forgotten. Seriously, all of the minor Bridge Four characters were created in the same manner. You have Rock, Teft, Sigzil, Lopen, who are actual story characters that Brandon made, then you have the others who are based on real people. According to what Brandon said at the signing I was at in Portland, the only exception is Skar, who was just a extra name. It's no different.

Woah. So this can be seen in two ways. Adolin growing as a character, or pretending to be someone else. I wish this had been brought up better in his narrative.

Hi all, So a few months ago I needed to burn a few audible credits and I stumbled upon WoK. I can't remember if it was a freebie or it just seemed free because the length of play was only 1 credit. I pulled it down half expecting to not have the patience for such an epic tome. Almighty above, what an amazing find. I burned thru WoK and then WoR and I've only got a few hours left of OB which upon finishing I will probably start them all over again. Love the Cosmere, this Sanderson fella can really spin a tale. Anyway, great site, Thanks for all the content, I've been poking around on here for a while and thought I would say Hi.

Okay, so technically this was all yesterday, but due to the astounding number of things that went to Braize yesterday, I just did not have the mental energy to translate it into a Redacted, Inc* post. So, here at Redacted, Inc, those of us in management have a weekly staff meeting. Not all of us follow the same command chain, though, because we do different things. We have a cryptid team, a magic team, a faerie team, etc. My team generally handles UFOs. None of this is at all real-life accurate (or is it?) but it amuses me to put it this way so there ya go. Last week's meeting, my boss and I got shooed out near the end because they had some stuff coming down that "didn't affect us" so we allegedly didn't need to know about it. We all but got run out of the conference room and they had their discussion and that should have been the end of it. It wasn't. Yesterday, I come to work to find a piece of my team's daily schedule has been yanked. Supposedly this happened for everyone, and come on, Kaymyth, you knew about this. Everyone did. Why don't you get with the program, judgey judgey blah blah. I got bounced around like a ping-pong ball between several people. No, that wasn't supposed to affect my team. Yeah, but Command got orders and we can't circumvent them on your word. Wait, no, the Big Boss said it's everyone, so it's everyone. And when I called out the same member of management who, as previously mentioned, ran me and my boss out of the gorram meeting, she got all fluttery and defensive and pulled a gaslight tactic accusing me of not being able to "go with the flow" to cover for the fact that it was her rusting fault I didn't know what was going on in the first place. So I threw the entire incident into my weekly report as a problem, it went up the management flagpole, and now she's angry at me for "tattling" on her. Whatever. If your actions are deliberately holding back key information for me to be able to do my storming job, yeah, I'm going to complain. You don't get to put me in that kind of position without having to pay the piper in the end. Don't test me, slontzes. It won't go well. That's not even the only problem I had yesterday. UFOs call us when they get lost and need directions. I've been working here for over 7 years now. Never have I seen one of our phones break. Yesterday, TWO of my team had their phones break in completely different ways, throwing them out of our phone coverage. So that was fun. (One is now fixed today, the other not yet.) Oh, and some unknown yahoo in a technical department in another office deleted a bunch of widgets we need for our system. See, these widgets are usually used for one particular thing, but my team uses them for a completely different thing that these tech guys can't see. They've done this before, and every time we kick up a fuss. I got them undeleted today, and I've been assured that ownership of the widgets is now "properly documented" but I have my doubts. Mostly because I wasn't allowed to actually speak to the widget deleter. I mean, it's probably for the best, as the mood I was in would have left the poor man quaking in his boots when the conversation ended, but without striking the Fear of Kaymyth into the Hearts of Mortal Men, I cannot be guaranteed that things are fixed entirely to my satisfaction. Next time, I suppose. *For those of you who don't know - I am cagey about where I work because sometimes I need a release valve and complain on this thread. I steep things in weird allegorical terms so that it's not obvious to anyone who I'm complaining about. This has led to certain Sharders randomly deciding that I work for a super-secret government agency that keeps us safe from supernatural threats. I go with it.

I kind of got the feeling that Dalinar was about to ask her to be Highprince. I don’t have the exact quote, but didn’t he say, “Ialai, I have an idea about who should be Highprince that is unorthodox and intriguing that you might be interested in,” but she cut him off and said, “I’m not going to accept your leadership or anyone you would put in my husband’s place, so here’s Amaram.”? And Dalinar was trying to be all political instead of bluntly saying, “Well I was going to appoint you, but if you wouldn’t accept anyone I put in Torol’s place, then fine.” Probably a total fan theory, haha.

EDIT: This post is now complete! I was motivated by this WoB to do some deeper analysis of the Death Rattles: Specifically, I wanted to try to analyse the Death Rattles in a similar way to the Diagramitists, to see what patterns I could find from in the Rattles that we have decoded, and then see if that helps us make some intelligent guesses about the Rattles that we haven't yet figured out. Along the way, I hoped to be able to gain some deeper insights into the motivations of Odium, and perhaps any takeaways that Taravangian might have gained. My Method: If you want a detailed explanation of my methods, open the spoiler window here: The Data: I have attached the Excel Spreadsheet that I created, in case you want to see my raw data and play around with the pivot tables. I has originally planned to do this in SPSS, to do some more rigorous statistical analysis, but apparently my student license has expired :-( My Results: To be honest, the most valuable part of this exercise was the initial work of identifying the main themes, emotions and keywords within the Death Rattles. This surfaced a few clear patterns that made fairly obvious sense when compared side-by-side with other similar rattles. The deeper analysis using pivot tables didn't do much more than confirm some of these patterns. The sample size is just too small, especially since some of the rattles seem to be isolated events anyway. Here are some of the main things I found. Major Themes: There was a long list of themes I found in the rattles, all of which you can see in the spreadsheet. Here are my thoughts on the themes that recurred most often: Breaking Down the Categories: This is the guts of my analysis, going through each category and discussing the interesting points. I won't cover every rattle, as many of them are already well understood, but I'll go into detail where I think I can add something to the discussion. Everstorm/Desolation: This was the biggest category, containing 12 of the 35 quotes. In some ways it's least interesting to us now though, because we have read past these events and solved most of the rattles (with one exception). The most striking feature of this group was the sustained intensity of the emotional responses that it evoked, focusing on Fear, Fatalism, Despair and Horror. Clearly these rattles were a form of pre-war posturing, intended to frighten the wits out of whoever heard them, and convince them to give up before the fight ever starts. Half of the rattles clearly refer to the Everstorm and the Desolation directly. Four shine a horrible dark light on the Voidbringers, with the rasping singing of Storm Form, and the burning rage and vengeful spite of the Fused and the Thunderclasts. Two rattles refer more generally to Odium's final victory in inevitable terms. The Contested rattle (Number 9: "Victory! We stand atop the mount! ...") has features of all three secondary categories: it seems to be from the perspective of the Fused, with their characteristic rage and vengefulness; it seems to tell the story of Odium's victory; but it may also refer to the a general victory early in the Desolation. Even if I can't pinpoint the "victory on the mount" event, one thing I am sure of is that it fits thematically and emotionally with the other rattles in the Everstorm/Desolation category, and is therefore almost certainly a prediction of a victory for Odium, rather than a flashback to a previous desolation as has been suggested. Knights Radiant: This category currently contains 5 rattles, 4 of which have generally agreed explanations. These 4 I have labelled "Rise of the Radiants", although I could easily have flagged them as Kaladin's Journey, as they focus on him almost exclusively (Shallan gets a brief mention as one of two 'dead men' coming from the pit). As I alluded to above in my discussion of the Rebirth theme, the common emotion in this group of rattles is Hope, accompanied by Defiance, Determination and Awe. The negative emotions associated with Odium (fear, horror, despair, confusion) are evoked here only as representations of challenges to be overcome. It is also worth noting the verb chooses in these rattles. Kaladin is always described acting positively; he "stands", "speaks", "drinks", "saves", "protects", "raises" and "picks up". They are decisive, progressive actions that are in stark contract to the passive actions of humans and Heralds in other rattles, who "sit", "weep", "grieve", "fall" and "die", "die", "die". Three of the rattles are, I believe specifically about Kaladin, and his progression through the oaths. This is one example where a side-by-side comparison of the themes and emotional tone has helped a lot. I have presumptuously marked all these three as Solved, even though there is some debate still about two of them. They are: Rattle 15: He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear! Rattle 22: Above the final void I hang, friends behind, friends before. The feast I must drink clings to their faces, and the words I must speak spark in my mind. The old oaths will be spoken anew Rattle 32: All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds. Rattle 15 metaphorically identifies the three pivotal moments in Kaladin's path to become a Knight Radiant: The first is speaking the 2nd Ideal at the Battle of the Tower in WoK; The second speaking the third Ideal and saving Elhokar (the Crown) in WoR; and the third is forming his Shardspear and battling Szeth in the storm. Rattle 22 is uncontested, and clearly refers to Kaladin speaking his second Ideal in the Battle of the Tower, as explained in the Coppermind notes. For Rattle 32, I agree with the summary provided by @Fulminato in this post, which shows that Moash is the one who saved his life, Elhokar is the one who broke his promises, and therefore the rattle refers to the moment Kaladin speaks the Third Ideal in WoR. The fourth rattle is different (No. 27: "They come from the pit ...", in that it references Kaladin and Shallan coming out of the chasms from the point of view of a third person. It therefore illustrates the awe and hope that the rise of the KR can inspire in others. The fifth, contested rattle (number 9: "Ten people, with Shardblades alight, standing ...") projects hope too, although the odds seem less in the KR's favour. It is probable that this scene refers to the Battle of the Fields at the end of OB, but I've left it contested while we work out the details of who the ten actually are. I'm afraid that I don't have anything to add to that discussion, other than I believe it fits thematically and emotionally with this group of rattles, especially with the references to "light" and "standing". There are two Uncertain rattles that seem to refer to the KR as well, but neither contain the hopeful, rising tone of the other five. The first, (rattle no. 3: "Ten orders. We were loved, once ...") is much more ambiguous, with an appeal to the Almighty ("Where have you gone?") and the curious phrase "Shard of my soul" which might equally refer to a Nahel spren, or the death of Jezrien. Thematically and emotionally, this rattle is more consistent with the Herald rattles, with expressions of loss, regret, grief, and fallen glory. I therefore believe this cold be a pair with rattle no 16 ("The burdens of nine become mine ...") which references Taln at his breaking point. Taln appeals to the Almighty in both quotes, as he was in Braize when Honor was splintered and may not consciously be aware that he is gone. "Shard of my soul, where have you gone?" would therefore refer to his moment of realisation that Honor is dead. The other uncertain rattle (number 23, "The death is my life ...") is a simple re-working of the first Ideal, turning it inside out to suggest failure. The sample is considered suspect by the Silent Gatherers, and given it's origin, from a "scholar of some minor renown", I tend to take this suspicion at face value and agree that these may actually be the pre-prepared, and presumably poignant last words of an in-world Knights Radiant history geek. They do not match thematically or emotionally with the other rattles about the KR, so seem counter to the motivation theory of the Death Rattles. For context, Brandon included this quote in the Chapter 60 Epigraph, directly after Kaladin and Teft discuss the first Ideal in detail, and right before Dalinar has a vision with a downcast Nohadon, in the wake of a terrible Desolation. Given that it seems designed more as a thematic and emotional bridge between these two chapters, and that it is extremely abstract, with no recognisable references to either a possible event or a character (which all the legit rattles have), I conclude it's a red herring. Heralds: The two solved rattles in this group obviously focus on Taln and Ash, with clear references to madness. Ash's madness manifests as she "sits and scratches out her own eyes" -- a form of self-harm -- and is illustrative of her fall from glory and the overwhelming regret, grief and self-loathing that she feels. In Taln's case, the burden of taking on the tortured madness of all of the Heralds for 4500 years finally gets to him and he appeals to the Almighty for release. As I mentioned above, I believe this pairs with Rattle no. 3, to give us a picture of Taln's breaking and subsequent discovery of Honor's death. There's something else very interesting about these three rattles though, centred on the phrase "Why must I carry the madness of them all?" In the WoR Prologue, Jasnah overhears Nale and Kelek(?) openly discussing the fact that Ash, Jezrien and they themselves were "getting worse". This seems to signal some connection between the mental states of the nine Heralds on Roshar and Taln on Braize. I'm not the best person to speculate on the Realmatic mechanics of Connection between highly invested Cognitive Shadows like the Heralds, but it seems clear that after 4500 years of torture, Taln's deteriorating resolve correlated with a sharp decline in the mental stability of his companions. The other Uncertain rattle that has been suggested might relate to the Heralds is the very first quote, from the prologue of WoK. The sample is described as questionable by the Silent Gatherers, and it is true that it most closely resembles the other non-rattles in form and content. Most notably, it begins with the speaker announcing their own death, as do the other two. However, unlike the other two, it doesn't provide any clear evidence that the words spoken are not those intended by Moelach. In contrast, the phrase "while the sun is still hot" seems like a reference to the Night/Day theme, which is very common in the other rattles. Additionally, the formulation of the final words "I die" fits in with the first person, present tense structure of the true rattles. So could this be Jezrien? Sure! The surprise at being "while the Sun is still hot" certainly fits. If we consider night to be a metaphor for the final victory of Odium, then Jezrien's death before the sun has set on Roshar would be a surprise to him. The use of the word "bastards" might also fit with his current drunken state. So it could fit. But it's not entirely convincing, and I'm going to leave it up to debate. The Unmade: There are three clear rattles referencing the Unmade, and one Uncertain rattle that appears likely. Re-Shephir, Dai-Gonarthis and the Black Piper are each named and revealed clearly, although there is still speculation about the true natures of Dai-Gonarthis and the Black Piper, neither of whom we've seen on screen yet (at least not obviously). A few themes and emotions are noteworthy across the three rattles. The Unmade are all associated with night and or darkness. They all either "watch", "consume", or "hold" humans in some way. The tell-tale emotion is horror, alongside fear, paranoia and despair. Much like the rattles about the Voidbringers, the motive of these quotes seems to be less about warning, and more about intimidating. The Uncertain rattle (No. 25: "The darkness becomes a palace. Let it rule! Let it rule!") has been linked by some (including me) to the Palace in Kholinar, and the Unmade who captured it. Yelig-nar, Ashertmarn and Sja-anat could all be said to have come to the palace, and the "Let it rule" cry sounds similar to the cult of spren that sprung up in the city. The rattle doesn't fit the pattern of the other Unmade quotes though, and it is aligned much more closely with the triumphal tone of the rattles predicting Odium's final victory. This isn't necessarily to say that the Kholinar explanation is wrong, but I think it more likely that the darkness is a more general reference to Odium, the palace a modern incarnation of the fortress we've seen in Dalinar's visions, and the "rule", that of Odium himself. Szeth: This isolated rattle seems straightforward in its reference to Szeth's defeat in the storm against Kaladin. I don't think it necessarily references his resurrection though, as some have argued for or against, but see "awaken" as a reference to his acceptance that the Radiants have returned, and that he was not truthless. The Uncertain Rattles: This is where it gets interesting. I have already discussed 4 of the 9 Uncertain rattles above. I allocated one to the Odium's Final Victory category, one to the Heralds category, one to the Not a Rattle category, and one I've still left Uncertain. I have divided the remaining 5 into two main groups: Taravangian's Choice: Three rattles that detail a future choice T will make, as I discussed above in the Moral Confusion theme; Isolated Events: Two rattles that refer to pivotal characters and events, but which don't fit directly with another category. The Szeth rattle would fit into this group too. I don't want to delve too much into the Taravangian quotes again, as I feel I've already pushed my theories on that enough. I did find, however, that the themes, emotional responses, and keywords supported the linking of these three rattles. It also has to be noted that rattle 35 ("So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life...") was spoken on screen directly to Taravangian. I wasn't able to find anything that helped determine who the Child might be, although the detailed nature of the rattles suggests they are literal, not metaphorical, descriptions of future events. Turning to the two remaining Isolated Events, I was interested to know whether I could find any links between them, or the other categories, but I couldn't discern anything definitive. Rattle 14: "I'm standing over the body of a brother. I'm weeping. Is that his blood or mine? What have we done?" As I mentioned in the Moral Confusion theme above, this is thematically similar to the Taravangian quotes. It also shares references to weeping, blood on hands, and regret for our choices. Beyond that, the events described seem entirely unconnected. I also suggested above that this rattle could refer to Kaladin's moment of freezing in Kholinor as he watches friends (brothers?) on all sides kill each other. It is thematically and emotionally different to Kaladin's hope-inspiring Knights Radiant rattles though, which suggests that the motivation behind this vision is different too. Rattle 34: "Above silence, the illuminating storms—dying storms—illuminate the silence above." This is the only rattle in ketek form, and is a frustratingly abstract as all the ketek poems I've seen. The themes, emotions and keywords don't match it up strongly to any of the other rattles either. The main clue here is actually the phrase "the silence above", which is also the title of Part Five of the WoK. In this section of WoK Dalinar sees the final vision and learns that Honor is dead. The silence above therefore refers to Honor's death. The illuminating storms refer to highstorms in two senses: the source of stormlight; and the source of the visions, which illuminate the truth for Dalinar. Therefore I see this rattle as predicting Dalinar's visions and learning of Honor's death. Conclusions I think I've justified that most of the rattles fall into a few discreet categories (with a few outliers), based on the events that they predict, and that these groups of rattles share common themes, emotional tones and keywords. Given this fact, it's safe to assume that their are deliberate motives behind the rattles. I believe all of the rattles are forward looking, although a few, notably the Heralds and Unmade rattles, are primarily revelatory in nature, describing the characters and foreshadowing their re-emergence into the world. Open questions: Why are the KR rattles, and specifically the Kaladin ones, so hopeful and inspiring? What motivation could Odium have for framing the Knights Radiant in such a positive light, when the Heralds and other humans are all made to seem weak, mad, and unreliable. It appears that Odium is manoeuvring T towards the KR, perhaps in the belief that they are a weak spot that can be exploited. Or is Kaladin in line to become the next champion? (I don't think so, but it's a theory that's out there!) Who are the Ten people holding shards alight? Is that Jezrien calling his killers bastards? Who is the Black Piper and what tune is he playing? Who is the suckling child, and is it Taravangian with a blade to his throat? (And why?) Where is will/did the victory on the mount happen? Which palace does the darkness become? Who are the fighting brothers? Death Rattle Analysis.xlsx

Well, I don't really feel like dying today. On the bright side, I'm almost 100% sure Seonid is the last elim! If you really think I'm going to die without a fight, you're oh so wrong. Also, seriously seonid, how do you do it? I never got a single elim vibe from you, not once. I had to look back closely to find anything against you! You'll need to teach me, after I've killed you. Also Joe, really? SDrake Marshall? This also means I can FINALLY post all the songs about killing I've made up! I've been lonely. Also, I would be more than fine with ending this cycle a day early. I'm sure we're all eager to get on with trying to kill each other. I also have some thanks I need to hand out, because I'm feeling pretty good about winning at this point, so why wait? Straw, only luck kept you from finding me out. Instead, you gave me exactly what I needed. Thanks, and well played. Drake, you've been a great villager. I appreciate your suspicion of me, and I also appreciate your failure to lynch me. Well played. Seonid, as I mentioned before, you had me fooled. I could learn a few things from you on how to be a better villager. I also appreciate you not killing me last night! If you had, I wouldn't be able to pull off a win. And now, one of my parodies: To Kill a Man To Kill a Man, you must be swifter than Steel compounders To kill a man, you must be strong as when flaring pewter To kill a man, you must be patient as antsy Pulsers Mysterious as the dark side of the Mists!

The Writeup will be coming. Hemalurgic Headshot was killed by the Mistborn. He was a Eliminator Seeker 1 and Assassin! Shanerockes has been killed by the Eliminators! He was a Village Smoker 2! The cycle will end in or Your Choice. Surviving Players! Seonid! Straw! Steeldancer! SDrake Marshall!

Kaladin: 1st: Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination Spoken during his time with Bridge 4 2nd: I will protect those who cannot protect themselves Spoken at the Battle of the Tower 3rd: I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right Spoken while facing Graves and Moash protecting Elhokar Lift: 1st: Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination Unknown 2nd: I will remember those who have been forgotton Spoken when healing Gawx 3rd: I will listen to those who have been ignored Spoken when confronting Nale Shallan: 1st: Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination Unknown 2nd: I killed my father (Something like that) IDK 3rd: I killed my mother (Something like that) IDK Dalinar: 1st: Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination IDK 2nd: I will unit instead of divide, Stormfather. I will bring men together Spoken at Urithiru at the end of WoR 3rd: I will take responsibility for what I have done. If I must fall, I will rise each time a better man. Spoken while confronting Odium Jasnah: MYSTERY Szeth: I'm lazy

The answer to your first paragraph highly depends on the individuals at hand... I quizzed my husband, asking how he would have reacted in a hypothetical situation similar to Shallan's predicament (I used rape and/or murder in self-defense as examples ). He told me he wouldn't have been mad: he would have understood these are terrible events which are hard to share. He then proceeded to tell what would have bothered him and it was knowing I had fun doing so stuff with some other guy, but not him So huh, I guess it really depends on people as I am sure I would have reacted the same as him. I think I would have been disturbed, perturbed but this is not a "lie" which can be held against the one who makes it... It is such a grave event. What is normal then depends on the individual and how the facts are presented. Arguably, normal for Adolin seems to readily accept everything with a strong face and act as if it doesn't bother him. On the other hand, it would make his character more interesting if he were to have a reaction, any reaction I more or less disagree with those paragraphs as I do think Adolin's behavior with women is consistent within all three books. My personal impressions are readers wanted Adolin to be a womanized, they read he was a womanizer because of a handful of key sentences, but they ignored the clues indicating he never were a bee killer nor a Casanova. When I was reading WoK, my initial impressions were Adolin indeed was the "womanizer" kind of character as he spoke of his numerous dates up until I realized his inner monologue was not right... Adolin is never looking out for the next conquest: he always systematically yearns to make it work, to not do a mistake, to not let the relationship crumble, like they always do. What hit me is he never seem to know how the failures happened nor what he did to trigger them. These always seemed to me as the wrong reactions for a real womanized as my perception of a womanizer would be of someone not caring about his relationships, not wanting them to last and someone losing interest rather quickly. I didn't read Adolin was losing interest into any of his dates... I instead read a young man wanting his relationships to work out, but being able to put himself out there for it to happen. Each time they hit a bump, he systematically backed up. He also never seem to be on the hunt much for a womanizer... Janala? She courted him while he was dating another. Mashala? We do not know. Danlan? She aggressively called on him the second she set foot into the warcamps. Shallan? She pursued him and she was presented to him as his casual betrothed. Which woman had Adolin actually hunted, seduced and courted? None we could see within the book... A side glance to a waitress is a rather poor example. It seemed to me women are pursuing Adolin more than him. Him, if I follow what I have observed and the WoB we have gotten, he's just afraid he is not up to the challenge, so each time the stakes rise, he runs away. It is an unconscious behavior. He isn't doing it consciously, but he is avoiding having to put himself out there for someone to criticize. I thought this behavior was highly consistent with OB. In OB, we saw how Adolin's teenage years were filled by being criticize by his hero, his idol. Constantly. For no valid reason. And Adolin's reaction is always the "perfect one": the one where he puts on a strong face, accepts the critic and works harder to comply next time. He always thinks he deserves the critic. He always thinks he is "not good enough". This is seen in OB when he wants to step down for Kaladin: he doesn't even think to fight for Shallan. He considers he has already lost the fight: he is unworthy, he is not good enough, if criticized, then of course it is because he deserves it. It all works. Adolin never really was a womanizer, he always was a young man with low self-confidence when it comes to his personal worth and, as such, he developed issues developing relationships with others, despite having a sympathetic personality. It is why we aren't seeing Adolin courting other women when he is with Shallan: he never wanted those to happen, but they did, because he unconsciously always looked for a way out. Because he never thought he was worth it. Shallan however, with Shallan, there was a formality involved, something which initially prevented him to back away. It was decided for him, not by him, even if he ended up falling in love with her. Hence, it is different, but the story doesn't do a good job of portraying it. All this to say, I wouldn't hold my breath to start seeing Adolin "court other women" or "have wandering eyes" because these behaviors only existed to hide a lack of self-confidence. Now Adolin voiced out his issues to Shallan, I do think the narrative considers it is a done deal and I do find it consistent with the previous books. As for his women issues being the interesting aspect to his character, I tend to find his unhealthy relationship with his father to be far more interesting. I also liked the fact he was a "duelist" in a time where they needed "generals": the fact he will not define himself like the second one is interesting in itself. I liked the fact he never wanted to be a soldier and I find it interesting he has a hard time accepting he may need to kill other humans. Him having wandering eyes once? I never found it overly interesting, but YMMV.

I previously made a compilation of the curses and exclamations used in the Stormlight Archive. Because moving that topic to the OB board would remove it as a reference for people who have not yet finished Oathbringer, I have decided to start a new topic here that will incorporate the new material. This can replace or merge with the other thread when spoilers are no longer a concern. To my knowledge, the list is exhaustive for WoK, WoR, and Edgedancer. I have added all the new instances from OB of which I'm aware, but I'm sure that I have missed some. I appreciate your help in completing the collection. OB entries have been incorporated into the catalog below, but a list of the new curses is spoilered here for those who want to identify the novel entries discovered in OB. On attributions: In most cases, speaker attributions are omitted for the sake of clarity, but speakers are identified parenthetically if their identity adds important context to the entry. If you think a particular phrase should be attributed (or not), please make your case in a comment. Storms and Storming are universal, and people use them frequently. So far we haven’t had many scenes from people on the western half of the continent where the storms are weaker; there is a good chance that the storms are invoked far less in such regions. Notably, Taffa uses a storm-related curse in Dalinar’s Starfalls vision, indicating that it was used historically as well. Variants and related curses: "Stormwinds" (Lirin, Taffa), "Storms alight" (Jasnah), "Blustering" (Yalb, a Thaylen Admiral), The Heralds, collectively and as individuals, are invoked across many Rosharan cultures. Vorin speakers most frequently swear by Kelek, but by the end of WoR Vorin speakers have invoked each of the ten Heralds at least once. As they occur in curses, the Vorin forms are: Jezerezeh, Nalan, Chana, Vev/Vedeledev, Pailiah/Pali, Ash, Battah, Kelek, Talat, Ishi [Herald] knows or [Herald] send are frequent formulations. ”Chana help” is a similar construction [Herald’s] [attribute] A herald is often paired with a body part or attribute. Some appear to be traditional associations, but others are most likely spontaneous variations. Examples Kelek's breath / tongue Ash's eyes Ishar's soul Nalan's hand Pali's mind—(Adrotagia) by Vedeledev's golden keys—(Kabsal) Talat's hand / palms / nails Other Variants: “Living Heralds above” "Heralds send” "What in Kelek's name” Azish speakers use alternate names for the heralds, primarily invoking Yaezir (Jezrien) Variants: "for Yaezir's sake," "Yaezir help" Kadasixes and Stars -- Kadasix is the Azish word for Herald, but the association with stars is interesting, especially considering cosmological features like Taln's scar and the gas giants shown in the star chart in Arcanum Unbounded. Tashikki speakers frequently invoke Tashi, probably either Taln or Ishar (see this thread for discussion). Variants: "Tashi above," "Tashi, God of Gods and Binder of the World" Other Vorin Curses Almighty is a frequent Vorin curse, referencing Honor/Tanavast. Many variants of usage are found: "Almighty above" "by the Almighty's tenth name" "what in the Almighty's own eyes?" "by the names of God himself" "Almighty, cast from heaven to dwell in our hearts" Stormfather is a ubiquitous Vorin curse. NOTE: While the general usage is distinct, we should remember that Vorinism has conflated the Stormfather with Jezerezeh/Jezrien. In contrast, the Natan people conflate him with Kelek. Damnation is an especially common curse among Vorin speakers. Variants and related phrases: “What in Damnation's eleventh name?"—(Sebarial) “What in the Halls”—(Van Jushu) a reference to the Tranquiline Halls Other Cultures Passions--Thaylen. Rendered "Blessed passion" on one occasion (Yokska). Thaylen speakers also say things like "I had Passion that help would come," meaning hope or expectation. Both usages are related to (but distinct from) the Passion spoken of by singers Fused, and Odium himself. The singer version so far does not appear to be used as a curse. Flick my sparks –(Lopen) Herdazian exclamation, a reference to sparkflickers. Blight it all – (Axies) presumably Siah/Aimian, but Axies is a traveler and could have acquired it elsewhere Dustmother—(Ton, a Bavlander in a Szeth interlude of WoK). Possibly Vorin? Glories within—(Szeth) Shin Stones Unhallowed -- (Szeth) Shin Kali’kalin’s ghost – (Rock) Unkalaki, possibly referencing a Herald Beautiful lights and fallen stars -- (Rock) Unkalaki Blessed gods of sea and stone -- (Rock) Unkalaki Starlight - (Geranid) Speaker is a Vorin ardent with extended residence in the Reshi isles Spren It is not yet clear how spren culture divides, so instances are noted by speaker: Wyndle: “Sweet virtue” and variants of "Mother" including “Oh blessed mother” and "Oh Mother, oh Cultivation!" Stormfather: "Why in Damnation", an apparently Vorin appropriation. Unique or Uncategorized Drynets—a sailor curse implied to be quite inappropriate. Starving--unique curse used by food-obsessed Lift. Variants include "Starve me" Storming Mother of the World and Father of Storms Above. (Lift) Originally Reshi, Lift has travelled widely, so it is difficult to assign a parent culture. Blood of my fathers / ancestors - Used so far by Dalinar, Amaram, and Moash, this may be a feature of the violent Alethi culture frozen -- (Malata) derogatory adjective, possibly Veden By the Brightcaller's Rays -- used by Drehy, so presumably a phrase from far western Roshar (presumably Rira) Past Eras, as seen in Dalinar’s visions Three Gods--(Taffa) Sweet wisdom of Battar--(Taffa) Worldhoppers Shadows—(Nazh) Threnody By purity's eye - (Nazh) Threnody Merciful Domi - (Riino) Sel Damnation--(Azure) A Vorin curse, notable because Azure uses it ungrammatically as "Damnation me" and "Damnation these creatures," betraying her incomplete command of the language Oh God. Oh Adonalsium! - (Ash) Heavens, no--(Wit) Notable only for the lack of similar phrases by native Rosharans.

This is absolutely correct and also a damnation shame, mostly because Amaram needs to work as a villain. Without the page time he looks one-dimensional and bland. Brandon being cagey with his backstory hurt Amaram, and as he gets more pages (flashbacks exclusively, of course) I expect I'll like his character more. Until then... I would like to believe this is true, and it sounds plausible enough, but Brandon's aforementioned caginess means that the juiciest bits have yet to be revealed. Namely: Gavilar. He was a member of the Sons of Honor, and on the road to being a Bondsmith concurrently with Dalinar. His death is the pivot that starts our main story and there are so many questions left unanswered. Amaram suffers from these unanswered questions, as we would have appreciated him as more than the Big Bad, specifically Kaladin's Big Bad. Here's the thing: while I'm willing to accept betrayal from Moash due to his earned contempt for the species, Amaram doesn't get the same leeway. He was supposed to be the hero and failing doesn't mean you get to turn traitor. This was more that was offscreen, but if Amaram knows Honor is dead, how does he think it happened? I doubt Odium would tell him but it seems pretty obvious, especially to us. He's in-world Benedict Arnold. I vote to christen a breakfast dish Eggs Amaram. It is a base of lavis flatbread, a slice of cured pork, poached chicken's egg (what a delicacy), covered in pork gravy. Serve with yellow wine in the late morning. At yet I don't think Amaram was nuanced enough, mostly due to lack of screen time. This line was like a breath of fresh air but it was too little too late. When reading it felt more like a deserved shot at Dalinar than justification for himself. This moment was about Dalinar and his hypocrisies. Even when delivering a devastating blow we're left with a moment that services our main character more than Amaram, who is left looking petulant and resentful of Dalinar's success. As for my own thoughts on Amaram, I mostly agree with @ICanDream. He hit the points I would have hit quite nicely. The most galling part about Amaram's character came at Thaylen City when he succumbed to Odium. It was epic in the moment, but it subsumed the character completely. He's always been Kaladin's villain and I was really hoping I could see him as more than that. Brandon did a little bit in WoR but I wasn't satisfied by what came in OB. I'm talking myself into more Amaram scenes in flashbacks due to his proximity to Gavilar, but I'm not holding my breath that he'll get the screentime he needed to become a true villain. He needed the amount of attention Sadeas commanded in the previous two books to accomplish that, and it turns out Taravangian was the one to take over for Sadeas. He'll probably carry the role for another two books, or until the Diagram collapses around him, but I wish Amaram were more of the villain in this book. This was his moment, his chance to justify himself and endear him to the readers as a villain convinced of his own righteousness. It never really happened for me, but @Toaster Retribution's essay I responded to was the first thing I've seen that persuades me to reevaluate Amaram rather than simply curse his name. I hoped Amaram would be the next Sadeas but instead Moash is the next Amaram.

I thought I heard a commotion outside my lab, and it appears to be new Denizens joining the Alley! What a glorious occurrence! Science smiles on us this day. Persistence, denial, and discrediting detractors. Remember this simple rule and you'll be set. After the Purple one we found the taupe one, which was not somewhere we wanted to set up anything more than an outpost. Then there was the dimension of inverse sound, then the Left dimension, where everything was the left version of things. Everyone was left handed, had two left feet, and so on and so forth. It was looking promising until one of the acolytes that was with me pointed out that 3 lefts make a right, and then the entire dimension collapsed, destroying itself and everything in it, including the acolyte. Rookie mistake. Personally I recommend a mirror dimension, such as the the one where everything is the same except that all animals are variants of penguins.

Man I thought for sure it was the same painting except the "white" it is pretty much a perfect description. One thought though could the "white" Kaladin sees actually just be a really really light shade of red that Lightsong was able to distinguish as red because of his heightening? I know this is a stretch and I am grasping at straws here. It seemed like it was very rare for a painting to not be burned though and we know this one was. I'd say it at least has to be the same artist. I also think it is weird that if it wasn't why would Brandon RAFO it in the WoB? We know from OB that it was from the Court of Gods why keep it a secret? #rafo

Welcome to the 17th Shard! Here, take a cookie and a reputation point as a welcoming gift! Also a quick question, whats your favorite magic system in the cosmere?

Probably it's mostly matter of view. For example I see the Metallic Arts as more interesting than Rosharan Magics. I like them both but the Rosharan ones are really loosely in the effects they have. Adding elements doesn't imply a better product, personally I prefer to see magic works with clear elements and see them used in originally way rather than having tons of them popped up around for every circumstances. Some could disagree with me, others will agree with me...It's mostly matter of taste and perception ;-)

Durkon has always been a little less genre-savvy than some of his cohorts. It's hard to blame Durkula for not picking up on things that generally fly straight back his imprisoned host.

Fair enough, how about "It's about Eshonai/Venli and I WANT it to be about Eshonai/Venli". Why you may ask? Because a main POV Listener means we will likely have way more Odium screen time. I don't want more Odium screen time, I NEED more Odium screen time.

Well, Adolin is not only better at reading men, he's all in all much better at relationships with men, those with women he subconsciously sabotages and apparently only keeps getting into them because he has to. Shallan is easier for him to deal with, especially since he can teach her sword fighting and other guy stuff. Still, she is usually the one initiating the more romantic side of their relationship, while he's all neutral if not openly crushing on Kaladin. If he isn't at least bisexual, I don't know what this is. In the end, it's not Kaladin who has fueled the Kadolin ship all on his own. I wonder if it's another subconscious effect or something else.

I can understand the idea of breaking the immersion, or taking you out of the book, as @Rainier said earlier. And it's a valid point, too. Authors work so hard to build an immersive world, it's a shame if something like this pulls you out of it, even if it is only momentarily. I can't say it bothered me, but I've been working in the publishing industry for more than a decade, so I'm very familiar with the sausage factory of book creation and marketing. To me, it's not so important how the author finds inspiration for their characters or plots, it's how they take that inspiration and weave it into their story that matters. One of the things I love about Brandon is that he is so open with his entire process, and this has always been received positively by his fans. I actually use Brandon as an example to many authors I work with, both to get first-hand writing advice, and on how to build a thriving community with their readers. I've always seen the whole fan-placement issue from the point of view of an author or publisher building an audience, so it's very interesting to hear whether making one fan's dream come true comes at a cost of diminishing the experience for many other fans, even if only very slightly.

This is a good point, but I don't know if we can draw the parallels in Vorin society that we think would follow in analogous Western (earth) societies. (For instance, strict religious societies often condemn homosexuality, but Vorinism generally accepts it per that quote.) It's definitely something I'm pondering about how much of a parallel you can draw from the Vorin prohibition of Navani marrying (or just marrying Dalinar? - I don't remember how specific this was to her "brother") after her husband died. Also a really good point, and one that is reinforced in-world by Syl's emphasis on the fact no oaths were made until marriage. I think we definitely know breaking an oath is prohibited - so cheating or abandoning a spouse would be condemned. But what if both parties decided they wanted to no longer have the oath be in effect or one party allowed the other party out of their oath? The only analogy I could think of would be when our crew discussed the idea of Amaram leaving the Sadeas princedom to join Kholin. (You swear an oath to your highprince - I don't know if this is a less "serious" oath than marriage, but I'm not sure that matters.) Below is the quote where the group discusses Amaram defecting to Dalinar. Kaladin is shocked this is possible, but it sounds a bit like a divorce settlement, right? Amaram keeps his personal possessions and usually there is some sort of "alimony" paid to the party being left.

DAILY ROUTINE: weight Revali requires daily weighing, sometimes twice a day if I do not weigh his food. What he eats is closely monitored, and this makes sure he is ready to fly and hunt. If he is too heavy, he won't respond to me as easily. If he is too light, he might not have the strength to hunt. It is a careful balance. Today we also caught another rat!

Its suspected that Shallan is on her fourth oath, that being she killed her mother. Her 2nd and 3rd oaths are unknown and appear to have been said during childhood. Killing her Father may be her third oath, but I'm not so sure because it doesn't have the same effect on her as the 4th does. A WoB states that at the end of WoR Shallan was one level higher than Kalladin, and Kal was on his third oath.

Why do you guys seem to think that people need to fall neatly into introvert/extrovert categories? People are complex. People can seem introverted in certain situations and be much more outgoing in others. People are contradictory all the time. There doesn't have to be a readily-available explanation for why people might want to avoid the public eye but still look nice, or why people might find science interesting but also like to take leadership roles. Sometimes people are just like that!

Now that's something I want to read...

Upvote for an explanation that doesn't involve Moelach.

Dalinar the Barbarian says:

Ah Hahaha, I regret nothing.

If you take as a given that geekery = introversion, then I see why you feel the way you do. However, those two traits are not necessarily married to each other. It is very possible to be extremely geeky and extremely extroverted - these traits are not mutually exclusive by any means. I have friends who take pedantic nerdery to levels previously unseen by mortal beings who are also exhaustingly extroverted people. They do exist. Navani is not at all unusual, and definitely not impossible.

This is my favorite dead horse to beat, so here goes. Shallan, as a Lightweaver, is in the absolute best position to break her oaths and renege on her promises. Szeth would never be able to get away with this, nor Dalinar or Kaladin, but the Cryptics are not like other spren. They are more liberal in their interpretation of the 'oaths' and thus Shallan is not bound as tightly as other Radiants might be. From the in-world Words of Radiance: So as long as Shallan is speaking truths as an approach to self-awareness, I don't see why a Crypic would care if she's getting divorced. To Pattern, it would just be another powerful lie. And speaking of powerful lies, what do we know about Shallan and lying? Who warned her about what happens to women who believe their lies? She's been warned that all good con women (which she absolutely still is) meet the same fate: they start to believe their lies and can't jump ship when the time is right. This is what is happening to Shallan; she's starting to believe her own lies. It might take a while for the other shoe to drop, but if she's not ready to get out ahead of time, she'll meet the same fate as Tyn. That, I think, is the surest sign that this marriage will go wrong. Tyn told Shallan what would happen, the advice was disregarded, and now we'll get to see the consequences.

So it's impossible to be Zucchini now?

Fabrial Radiant in full Frabrialplate armour. Someone should make a movie of this .

Such as flatbutt!