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  1. Hi all! I'm finally back - hope you all enjoyed your break from me So I've spent 2 days catching up on the 20+ pages you all wrote over the last 2 weeks (or is it 3?) and found it all a very interesting read - but far too much to comment on each point individually! Well done! Anyway, I've been re-reading over Christmas but with family dramas and other animals, I haven't finished it yet, but I've slowly been bringing together some thoughts and I'll probably share them in some detail in a week or 2. With regards to some threads here that have arisen, I have some thoughts I'd like to add: Regarding Adolin's reaction to finding out Shallan's murdering her parents; I think Adolin will be horrified initially but come to terms with the fact of the murders quite quickly, and likely be pretty decent about the whole thing. I suspect that it will be some time before Shallan confides in him (indeed I doubt it will happen in the time skip because it should be something we see on screen) and I think he will understandably be more upset about her hiding it from him for so long. He will be especially hurt if he finds out she told Kaladin about her father's death but not him. I think there are a few things that lead me to think she won't reveal the murder: Her brothers are around now and they were complicit in her father's death. She won't want them hurt by the murder so she might admit that her father is dead, but not how it happened. I think Balat in particular would be happier to put the episode behind him. She worries how Adolin will react. I don't think this is fair to Adolin - he has a right to know what she has done. On top of that she is giving him no credit. She cannot afford to be seen as a murderess by society if she is to help lead the KR (this is certainly up for debate, but I think that Alethi society will frown upon her and Adolin if she is known to have killed her parents - regardless of the curcumastances) Of the two murders, the more chilling one is definitely the murder of Lin Davar - it was planned - she tried to poison him first and had probably had the idea in the back of her mind for a long time given how long she kept the Blackbane for - it was probably a subconscious thought, but there nonetheless. It was in self-defence technically, but there is a sociopathic element to it - indeed of the 4 children present, only Shallan can act. This act has some similarities with what Adolin does with Sadeas. The difference is that Adolin shows very little remorse (he is worried about being caught, but he isn't sorry about it). Shallan on the other hand seems much more remorseful. That might just be my take on it, and not sure it matters that much. The point I am trying to make is that their actions are not so dissimilar but Shallan herself doesn't open up to Adolin. Note I am less cncerned with Tyn's murder - not only was that self defence, but given the way in which Shallan arrived on the Shattered Plains (she admits to having been shipwrecked) any sensible person would have considered that Shallan may have had to manage some very difficult situations. I don't think Adolin assumes Shallan killed or anything like that, but he isn't stupid (tho I don't consider him terribly bright either) so he must hve realised her journey couldnt have been as smooth as she implied. So why do I think Adolin will initially be horrified? Well he's normal. Shallan's reaction (ie nothing) to Adolin's declaration of his murder of Sadeas was decidedly odd. Adolin is much more grounded and stable so he'll handle the situation in a "normal" way - ie probably be horrified - though I don't think he'll get angry or condemnatory to Shallan - but he will have a strong emotional reaction - indeed it may be sympathy for her - tho I wonder if she will reject that - she is not good at "being protected". As long as he lets her get the full story out then he will likely be supportive. The issue I have is how he does it. If he thinks she is effectively possesed by Radiant and Veil rather than accepting they are part of her then he might try to encourage her to place the blame on one of her alts which is not the case because the alts only appeared in OB as a direct consequence of her 4th Ideal. Ok point 2: Shallan's personas/masks I am very much in the camp that Shallan is a sufferer of OSDD. Having re-read about 2/3rds of OB with full notetaking I am very comfortable with this as a provisional diagnosis. If we accept this diagnosis then we need to be very careful about how we term her various facets. There have been a number of ways we have covered it in this thread, but it is vital that everyone commenting understands what is meant. OSDD is a form of dissociation. It usually happens in people who experienced extreme abuse during childhood (though it is a rare condition overall and by no means the only possibly outcome of an abusive childhood). It results in a "core" personality fragmenting. It is a bit like the way Adonalsium was fractured - the shards make sense on their own (to an extent) but when viewed in context of the whole, it changes the way each shard's intent manifests. See the letter in tWoK (I think) about Odium being God's divine hatred being separarted from the context of the other intents. Shallan is currently in 3 alters known as Shallan, Veil, and Radiant. There is unlikely to be another "hidden" alter but it is technically possible. However by definition we haven't got proof. The best proof of one would be the uncoscious drawings she does of Urithiru and Nergaoul in Part 1 of OB but an alter is not necessary for those drawings to exist - she has other dissociative states she retreats to and this is most likely the result of one of those. It is very important in OSDD to understand that each alter is vital to the whole personality. Even a small fragment (eg Radiant seems the "smallest" - ie least complex) is still intrinsic to a personality because of the way it can impact other more "important" traits. For example, Radiant's pragmatism might have prevented Veil from making the mistakes she makes in Kholinar because she'd have stayed more divorced from proceedings than we see Veil do - and that might have meant that Grund didn't die, or Veil would have handled the whole situation better. In tWoK and WOR in contrast, Shallan only uses personas - they are masks for her to put on and discard as she likes - she doesn't think dramatically differently when wearing the faces of the maid at Amaram's, or Amaram himself - but she starts to do so in Kholinar in OB as a result of OSDD. This is important. Shallan does wear a persona for Adolin - thats normal for a girl who has essentially been set up on an epic level blind date with a Prince. Of course she tries to hide her feet of clay. The issue I have is that she hasn't really tried to reveal herself fully to Adolin and now they are married. I personally wouldn't mind her being cagey still if they weren't married, but they are - and Adolin has no idea about what he's got himself into and she hasn't actually given him a chance. Once again, I don't think this is very fair of her. So why is this important? I for one, don't think "Veil" is a bigger fragment than "Shallan", but both "Shallan" and "Veil" represent larger fragments of trueShallan than Radiant does. The size though doesn't matter - absence of even the tiniest fragment would result in potentially important personality changes. What I do think is that it means that we cannot dismiss the feelings of any single alter - no matter what. "Shallan" has feelings for Adolin, "Veil" has feelings for Kaladin, and Radiant is more interested in the relative merits of each man - and weighs them accordingly. TrueShallan therefore must feel all of these but she has built artifical walls between her alters which separates them. On top of that, we have disagreement between the alters about the marriage to Adolin. It is normal to have misgivings about getting married - but trueShallan pushes that fear onto "Veil" so that "Shallan" doesnt have to expereince it. She manages all her internal conflict this way by the end of OB and honestly it isn't healthy because she will never reintergrate if she doesn't get her alts to reconcile. She has made no effort to do that yet. Hence, she has a long way to go (as per WoB) This might suggest that Shallan's romantic arcs arent completed yet - not necessaruly that the current situation will change, but until she reconciles herself to the crush she had on Kaladin and push it aside, she cannot be said to be completely committed to Adolin. And this leads me to Point 3: Shallan is not committed to Adolin. She should be, but she isn't. A significant portion of her sees herself as Adolin's drinking buddy and no more and is seriously crushing on Kaladin. Once again, not fair on Adolin. I don't blame Shallan for this - she is in the grip of a very serious condition that is essentially the fault of her parents. But at the same time, she hasn't actually accepted her position - instead she is pushing the fears she has onto Veil and not actually genuinely deliberating between her choices (or accepting that she could easily choose neither if she really wanted to). I don't want to suggest that her choice of Adolin is wrong per se, but I definitely feel her reasons are wrong and don't do justice to Adolin, Kaladin or indeed Shallan herself. The issue is that unlike a "normal" situation where the internal conflicts are managed through some form of reconcilliation between conflicting ideas, Shallan maintains her conflicts and until she faces those conflicts and actually manages them properly, her issues are going to continue boiling on. Personally I think this is also reflected in plot points that affect Shallan directly - ie the triangle, Helaran's death, and the murder of Sadeas. Shallan chooses nt to address her internal conflicts and this results in her not facing external conflicts either. Right I've got to go (already) but I may be back soon with a chapter by chapter analysis of different points- not necessarily just to do with A/S/K tho if no one minds some slight off topic comments?
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  2. One way that Brandon develops his characters is through combining ‘seeds’: foundational attributes of history or personality. Lightsong is one good example, where Brandon combined the concepts of “someone who died, came back to life, and lost a piece of himself in the return” and “someone who could fit into an Oscar Wilde play.” This keeps his characters from being one-dimensional caricatures: these different inherent characteristics play off and contrast one another, making the characters seem more realistic. I think, for the ten Stormlight flashback characters, he has been developing his characters with additional layers of complexity. Aside from the normal defining character traits, these ten characters also will a flashback sequence that reinterprets much of what we know about them. There are three other categories where we see major character traits: some sort of neuroatypicality, membership in a Radiant Order, and something magical or realmatic that makes them unique among Stormlight characters. Here is a table summarizing the character traits I’m speaking about. Theories are highlighted in italics; some are a little more esoteric than others. I’ll describe each of those categories in more detail, as well as some specifics of each character, below the jump. Character Backstory Neurology Radiance What-in-the- Kaladin Surgeon-Soldier Slave Depression Windrunner Fighting Ability Shallan Artist Murder PTSD Lightweaver Split Personality Dalinar Reluctant King Blackthorn Alcoholism Bondsmith Unity Eshonai/Venli Explorer/ Willshaper Singer Szeth Believer Outcast Skybreaker Nightblood Lift Annoying Edgedancer Eating Renarin Weaker Son Aspergers Truthwatcher Voidbinder Jasnah Atheist Elsecaller Worldhopper Ash Herald Insane Dustbringer Herald swap Taln Herald Insane Stoneward Herald All characters have Character. I’m marking it out separately here, because there are important aspects of characterization that don’t fall on one of the other pillars. Except for Kaladin, we get to know all of these characters before we see their flashbacks, we are convinced to care about who they are before this previously unrevealed aspect of them is shown. (Disclaimer: the description above of those characters is obviously simplified. I’m not trying to reduce some of these characters down to basic words or phrases, but rather make space to highlight the systematic approach I see with regards to other types of characterization.) But these characters are inherently complex because of their Backstory, the content of their flashbacks. Each character has a hidden history that redefines the way we view them. It’s often inherently tied to their Character, but due to the structure of each Stormlight book, it is something that Brandon has specifically developed for each character. The third aspect, which is tied pretty well together with the previous two, is their Neurology. Brandon has made several explicitly neuroatypical characters, and I think that all ten will exhibit such a trait. Maybe it will be formally diagnosable; in the case of our Herald flashback characters, I suspect it won’t be. But Brandon has exhibited a specific goal to include that sort of representation in Stormlight, and I think that is something people will look back on as what makes the series great. Next, we get into the things that are somewhat more arbitrary. I subscribe to the belief that each flasback character represents one Radiant order. The Oathbringer ‘Avengers Assemble’ scene has been talked about in other threads, so I know there are differing viewpoints on the matter, but I hold that each character is also specifically a representative of a Radiant Order. With Szeth becoming a Skybreaker, Renarin bonding a corrupted Truthwatcher spren, and there being some pretty strong signs that Venli will be a Willshaper, the only controversial point of this is Ash as a Dustbringer. And lastly, there is something truly Bonkers about each of these characters, something that is magically or Realmatically significant, or just plain weird. This really jumped out at me during the Thaylen City battle, where Szeth and Lift played off of one another through these traits (when Lift fed Nightblood), using things that they don’t share with the rest of their Orders or with anybody else at all. I’d previously thought that a bond with Nightblood would somehow grant Szeth access to the Skybreakers, but Oathbringer seems to show that Szeth’s acquisition of Nightblood really has nothing to do with his being a Skybreaker. It’s just something cool that he’s got. Some of the experiences of Dalinar and Shallan in Oathbringer also identified them as unique among their Orders. I think each of the ten main characters has this sort of a WOW factor, completely aside from their history, character, and Radiancy, some major ability or attribute that sets them apart as unique heroes. Some of these are pretty obvious, as were listed in the table above. Here are the things I theorize or suspect: · Kaladin. What sets him apart, makes him more than ‘just’ a Windrunner? I think it has to do with his martial prowess. There was that strange, electric sense he felt when he first picked up a spear. And when he had temporarily damaged his bond to Syl in WoR, he lost much of his talent. For a while, I thought he hadn’t truly lost it, but it was just his depression getting the better of him; he was blaming it on losing Syl, but he was really just being mopey. Especially since we didn’t see any abnormal increase in fighting skills among Bridge Four as they were on their path to becoming Windrunners. But something in OB made me rethink that position. There is something unique about Kaladin’s status as a Windrunner: his spren. Syl is different, older, than the other Honorspren. I think there’s something unique and special about Syl that grants Kaladin his skill with weapons. I haven’t been able to nail down a specific mechanism or reason for this yet; maybe Kaladin is Honor’s Champion, and Syl is a special spren left by Honor for him. Maybe not; but, in future books, I’m gonna be keeping an eye out for Kaladin’s special skill with his spear. · Not much more to say on Shallan; she pretty explicitly embodies all five pillars. I think the end of Oathbringer showed that she’s not on a path to overcome her split personalities, but to accept that as her new normal. I imagine Brandon is exploring this concept as a mirror of Rand’s story from Wheel of Time. Rand had to accept and merge with Lews Therin; Shallan does not merge, but accepts her shattered personality. · I think Dalinar’s alcoholism is his brokenness; it’s a pretty defining feature of the person he used to be, and his turning away from it a major factor of how he became who is. So, let’s look at what makes him unique. “I Am Unity.” He pulled together three Realms, but he also did some uniting earlier, through reassembling the temple of Talanel in Thaylen City. I had thought it was the Surge of Cohesion at first, but it turns out I was mistaken as to the Surges the Bondsmiths have. I don’t think it’s Spiritual Adhesion: when we saw that in action, it was letting him learn a language through Connection. I think this Unification ability is something different, and he was able to Physically and Spiritually Unite the broken pieces of the temple, dragging them together the same way he dragged the Realms together. As to where this power comes from… that’s another thing I don’t know. It strikes me as similar to the magic we saw in the released Dragonsteel chapters, more of a direct Realmatic manipulation, rather than a modern formalized magic system. Maybe it has to do with him as a successor to Honor. I like the crazy ideas that he’s a successor to Adonalsium, somehow. It’s something else to keep an eye on, exactly what it means for Dalinar to be Unity. · Eshonai and Venli are unique, in that they are tag teaming this character slot. Eshonai gets the flashback sequence, but Venli is the one who actually bonded the Radiant spren. I don’t think we’re in a good situation to speculate much on them – I don’t have a good sense for Venli’s character, and I don’t see any signs from either of them for neuroatypicality. But I do think that Venli being the first Singer Radiant is what makes her unique; we’ll see if that grants her any special powers, due to having potentially different ways to interact with her spren. · Szeth is another one who is kind of hard to speculate on. He does have character, I’m just having a hard time describing it. I almost think he has PTSD, but that’s what Shallan has. Nothing inherently wrong with multiple characters suffering from it, but I suspect there should be something else up with him. Maybe we’ll see some more when we get more Szeth POVs in the next two books. But his acquisition of Nightblood is part of what makes me think each of these ten characters has something crazy going on with them – he just gets Nightblood out of the blue, and it doesn’t help him become a Skybreaker or anything. It’s just something funky going on with Szeth. · I’m gonna jump ahead and do Jasnah, because I think I see some hints, especially in Oathbringer, of interesting secrets going on with her. First is her brokenness. We learned she suffered from an illness when she was younger, but we don’t get many details. I suspect this is the source of her brokenness, some long-term physiological effects of this disease. She gives no sign of any physical handicap (the crazy idea popped into my head that she’s unable to feel, but I haven’t looked to see if that’s consistent with the text, regardless of how thematic it might be), but I’m reminded of Helen Keller, and how a childhood illness left her blind and deaf. Her backstory is another peculiar aspect, since I get the feeling we’re in her backstory right now. Jasnah is hiding things from the other characters and from us as readers (her possible Shardplate in Thaylen City being the most egregious). It makes me think her flashback sequence will not end where we meet her in Way of Kings, but extend through the first five-book arc Secret-History-style, possibly including the planned gap years between SA5 and SA6. Oh, and lastly, the WOW factor. I’ve seen it floated that Jasnah seems like a perfect worldhopper candidate, right in the vein of Khriss. I think that would be a fitting way to set her apart from the other Elsecallers. · Lift is one we both know a lot about, and know very little about. I’m not a huge fan of her characterization; I almost find her to be sociopathic in the way she views the world around her, treating very dangerous things as games. But I won’t go so far as to suggest that’s a diagnosable mental illness; it may very well be just a part of her normal characterization, and I’m merely not fond of it. But, sort of like Jasnah, I don’t think Lift has lived her flashbacks yet. There’s a bit we don’t know about her early childhood, but I don’t know if there’s enough mystery to fill a flashback sequence. · There is much still mysterious about Renarin’s Voidbinding, but he’s clearly still a good guy, and pretty distinct from the other Truthwatchers. And his disability is the most explicit of all the characters. He might have enough for a flashback sequence with his current life experiences, but I suspect he’s another one who will progress during the gap, since I feel like Sja-anat can’t just fade into the background for a few more books. · Lastly, the Heralds, Taln and Ash. As discussed above, I identify Ash as the Dustbringer, which is her WOW factor. Taln being the Herald of that Order, never abandoning it, is his WOW factor. Maybe he still has a direct connection to Honor, or what remains of him, and can use it to power his eventual Surgebinding. And for both Heralds, the brokenness is going to be their insanity, whichever flavor it is for either of them. Flashbacks will be nuts and cosmic in nature. If you’ve paid attention over the years, there were several characters who were floated early on as being potential flashback characters. I think they had WOW factors, but were ultimately cut as flashback characters for others with stronger flashback sequences. But I think you can still identify their WOW factors, which are still big parts of the story even if the characters don’t get a book to themselves. I think these characters may even continue on to become Radiants anyways, so I’ll include my speculation on order, although I will admit these are primarily drawn from the overall systematization, rather natural outflows of the characterization: · Adolin: Edgedancer, Reawakened Blade · Navani: Dustbringer, Fabrial Expert · Taravangian: Truthwatcher, Diagram · Second Male Herald: Willshaper, ??? (I suspect this was referring to Kalak, as the Willshaper slot is open, but it’s possible that he had an order swap planned for another Herald instead of Ash at one point. Very little to go on here.) So, my aspiring Mendeleevs, what patterns do you see? Any thoughts on the cells that I left blank? Any replacements for some of my theories?
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  3. I feel like you are making my point for me. I agree with all of this. I think all of Veil and Radiant's feelings and capabilities are Shallan's (not their backstory of course. Shallan needed that to be different so that she could pretend she did not kill her mother.) Shallan pretends Veil is infatuated with Kaladin but she (Shallan) is not and she pretends Radiant can hold her shardblade but she (Shallan) cannot. That is all her. She is the one with those feelings and she is the one who is capable of holding her shardblade and learning to wield it. These are Shallan's attributes. The point is Shallan is not functioning right now without her alters. Like you said she made them because she thinks she can't. I want to her to realize that yes she can because that is what she has been doing. But she is pretending so fiercely that she cannot do these things; that only Veil and Radiant can. This is where she is stuck. This is why I do not see her progressing. She is pretending that she is three people when she is one person with complex feelings and various abilities. She is lying to herself and she believes the lie. Like Pattern says "your lies wrap other lies." (This is when he calls her Shallan and she says call me Veil.) This moment is straight to the point. I am invested in the love story but dang I agree it is not well developed. The love story doesn't have to be central but Sanderson has packed emotional weight into just a few pages in OB itself and in his other books. That this love story does not have emotional weight is disappointing.
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  4. Rule clarifications: 1. You are indeed allowed to notify a friend that this game is running, but we’d like you to try to do so in such a way that doesn’t make it obvious that you’re playing. 2. Despite Knights Radiant canonically having two surges, each role only has the power they have been described as having in the rules. 3. Anonymous accounts are restricted to posting only in the Roleplaying Forum, but must not be used outside the thread of the game the are allocated to. 4. Anonymity must be maintained in the spec/dead docs to reduce the chance of accidental leaks, and to ensure that post game activity voting is carried out fairly. 5. Day turns will run for 48 hours, and will be followed by a 24 hour night cycle.
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  5. I'll take a swing at the mental health angle, since that's a large part of what I do. Kaladin is pretty straightforward so I'll agree on depression absolutely. Shallan is kind of impossible to diagnose. She doesn't have PTSD, although that term gets overused extensively by the lay community. I would classify her as "childhood trauma", with everything else being a coping mechanism related to that. She's demonstrated avoidance mechanisms, and occasional panic attacks as a result. She has something like a borderline personality disorder also occurring. The "multiple personalities" thing seems to be more a side effect of overuse of her illusion magic than an organic cause as Hoid seems immediately familiar with her problems. I think "Anger Management / Rage" are more the core mental health problems of Dalinar's psychological functioning. Dalinar uses alcohol as a means to an end (self-treating other mental health anguishes), rather than as an end to itself. It is a substance misuse problem, but I wouldn't qualify it as a classic addiction scenario. Indeed he has shown the ability to stop alcohol consumption rather rapidly at multiple points, and doesn't have that constant desire/craving to consume alcohol that is so central to addiction. Teft is a much better example of true substance abuse disorder, the craving to use is always there and he fears regressing into addiction whenever he has free time or expendable income. Alcohol is something Dalinar uses to retreat from the anguish of Evi's loss and later to hide of the re-awakening thrill he feels at Vedenar, he doesn't have a single minded fixation on using alcohol itself just to use it though. Also the alcohol benders are a fairly recent change for him, Dalinar's rage and the consequences of him letting it out have been a black mark on his career as far back as we have flashbacks though.Szeth has a cult mentality. That's not necessarily a diagnosis, but his need to follow an authority it is the source of his problems. For Renarin I'd note that Aspergers as a terminology has been phased out. Autism spectrum (high functioning) would probably be the more correct term. Even with that diagnosis though, I'm not completely convinced. Renarin has certainly shown a large degree of social awkwardness and likely has a history of bullying, but we haven't seen him grossly misunderstanding social cues from others though or acting unusually inappropriate in social settings beyond excessive fidgeting. Jasnah we don't know enough about. She had some sort of acute "madness" as a child, but the fact that it hasn't recurred makes a diagnosis of schizophrenia pretty unlikely. I think she also had some sort of traumatic event occur as child, and the extreme anger+violence she showed to the potential rapist/murderers in Khabranth, along with her comment about learning that even those you love can hurt you probably offers us a sad clue of what kind of trauma she experienced. It will likely be many books before we get a clear picture of her past though. Taln seems like a classic PTSD case. Even after his mind was temporarily restored by Dalinar's rush of stormlight and he started talking lucidly and hopefully, Ash later notes that the sights and sounds of battle reduced him to a catatonic crying mess. He seems like the classic soldier case of PTSD. We'll probably see more of this later. Ash is OCD. Her compulsion is to destroy any images of herself. The scene where she forces herself to look downwards because she knows that if she sees any images of herself she will need to destroy them is a giveaway. It's not a thing she chooses to do, it's a compulsive behavior.
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  6. There is also the fact that Shallan is sitting and feeling weak and disoriented, but when she sees Kaladin that is when she stands up. Suddenly she is feeling strong. This happens earlier in OB as well. Shallan is on Honor's Path and thinks that she can't retreat to Veil right now because Veil is feeling broken. But when talking to Kaladin Veil peaks out and is super involved in helping him figure out a way to escape the honorspren. (This happens just before Shallan thinks Veil is too broken.) Veil's feelings for Kaladin are so strong that even the pain she feels about her failure in Kholinar can't keep her from drooling over him. Shallan stuff's Veil away because Veil starts drooling.
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  7. This is exactly it. I do agree the complexity is hinted at, but since it was never explored properly, it made the character appear too simplistic, bland and one-dimensional. There are two types of characters I will consider bland and one-dimensional: characters really without any depth nor substance and characters with hinted potential and depth, but left unexplored. In both cases, I find we are left with a character which misses the mark. If in the first case, we can just toss the character away as a meaningless minor bland character, in the second case we are left thinking so much more could have been added to make this specific narrative more powerful. Amaram is definitely a character I felt was done a disservice into the narrative. He has interesting potential as a tormented villain. I can't say he lived up to it. Totally agree with your ideas and your analogy. It would have also spiced up Dalinar's story arc which I felt was a tad boring and repetitive at times. There however are more changes I would make to several narratives to make them more effective and emotionally powerful. On average, I feel OB missed the mark with many of those: character development often done in an after-thought and for characters not being one of the main three, it is so sparse, it doesn't even count as character development. Amaram is one example of a "good idea of a character", someone with a lot of "hinted at interesting depths", but badly explored, apparently falling victim to the book structure where nobody but the top three is really allowed introspective, deepened story arcs. A shame. There were so many story arcs I felt were more interesting to focus on than the ones we got...
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  8. I think it was exactly like this in WoK/WoR, that Shallan put a mask over her bruised self the way all people do to some extent and it's ofc not creating a persona. But in OB when she fractures, this mask is all that's left of her after her other, usually more hidden traits get pushed into Veil and Radiant. And that's imo how these issues are related. I don't think the "realShallan theory" is about any secret persona. It's just that realShallan is consisted of all Shallan, Veil, Radiant and stuff hidden in the back of her head.
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  9. welp, here they are! Please let me know if this type of stuff isn't allowed, as I don't want to offend anyone, and I'll take it down! Falconry is, after all, a hunting sport, and this is natural behavior for hawks and other predatory birds like Revali, and a skill he must hone if he is to survive in the wild. Hawk that caught a rat under the tag
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  10. I just thought of something why reading through WoK. "I've never seen a named martial arts used on scadrial, thats weird". Then I thought,"Ah why the hell not? lets have some fun and make A martial arts form!" So this is what I call MistWay (MisutoPo, ミスト方法) where there are 16 different disciplines each meant to compliment A certain type of misting or mistborn. so, Here we go! (Things With an Asterisk can be used by Non-Allomancers Easily) Here's Feruchemy, special thanks to @Shallan's Ward for the help, I literally could not done it without the help: Feruchemy (Path of Balance) / バランス
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  11. AG4/AN1: A Fresh Start A mountain stood high above the land that had been a kingdom, surrounded by a thousand fires. Beneath its steady gaze, armies fought relentlessly through the days, ceasing only to take shelter from highstorms. Atop that mountain sat a small town, hosting only a single visible fire in the very centre of the town. “Once, when your parents were but children, there was peace,” an old woman said, making images of happiness and sunshine appear in the flames. “And before that, before even your father’s father’s father’s father lived, there was another war. Another Desolation.” Images of fires in the darkness appeared, first dozens but slowly going out. “War such as the land had never known ravaged the world, and humans died by the tens of thousands. Odium corrupted many more.” All but the last spark had gone out, and it flickered. “But we survived.” The spark flickered again, but it remained. “The Heralds were there to help us, and we survived.” The fire flared and grew, until it filled the entire vision and melded with the fire already there. She smiled at the children. “We’ll survive this one, too. There will be peace again. Now, go on, shoo! Your parents will be wondering where you’ve been.” The children giggled and scattered, but Sherrah stayed and watched the fire. “Peace again,” she murmured to herself, thinking of the campfires that were moving further up the mountain every night. “Someday.” If people were asked to describe Narg, they’d generally say that he was a man - who while unfortunate in life - that just got through life. Not one to interact with people, but also not one to stay in all day. Not one for physical labour, but also not someone who avoids it. Not one for repetitive sentences, but also unable to avoid them. But when pressed for more details about the elusive Narg, most would shrug and just leave with a ‘Narg is Narg, ya know?’. However, we at Roshar Reporting decided to get the full scoop on Narg, so decided to ask Narg about Narg. We’ve edited the boring parts of the interview out, as reporters often do. If anyone would like to have a full transcript involving the incident with the eggs, subscribe today for only 1 mark a month. As well as our feature piece on Narg, we have a story about why Desolations are called Desolations and not Desotructions on Page 4. For the purposes of this interview, Narg will be referred to as Narg and I will be referred to as Mark (also the price of our subscription). Mark: So Narg, it seems like no-one really gets to know you that well, do you even agree with that? Narg: Well I’d always kind of thought that, but I guess now I know it’s true, so thanks for that. Mark: So why did you even think that in the first place? Narg: You think that’s even a question? Don’t answer that. It’s probably because of my name, you know anyone else with the name Narg? Mark: No. Narg: Exactly, doesn’t roll of the tongue now does it? But what makes things even worse is that all the kids think it’s the funniest thing ever, you know how kids are. Leave the house and all I hear is ‘Nargle Nargle, Gives us a Giggle’. That was the first creative thing they did, and let me tell you, these kids are born poets. Mark: Could you give us any more examples? Narg: Well there’s ‘Nargle Nargle, Lives in a Jungle’, then you got ‘Nargle Nargle, Won’t even Struggle’ and don’t forget ‘Nargle Nargle, Forever Single’, Mark: Okay I think that might be enough for now, thanks. So you think that the name Narg is the cause for all your social struggles? Narg: To put it bluntly, yes. Sure there might be other reasons for it, but seriously Narg is just such a stupid name that how can I even do anything with it. But I have found a solution to that problem, which I’m sure you’ll understand eventually. Is that all? Mark: Could you not elaborate on your solution now? Narg: Oh no, you see it only starts in around a week or so. Expect a sudden increase in subscribers, followed by a slow decline in those subscribers. Mark: Thanks? Narg: No problem, now I got things to do so farewell for now. Maybe I’ll even get another interview soon. After that, Narg went to barter for some goods, and you know what? I could hear the songs accompanying him, so I guess he had a point there. Another year of SE, and it doesn’t appear that you’ve had your fill of murdering each other yet… 2017 was a year of a number of changes to SE, beginning with the successful implementation of cosmetic roles in the last AG, and the subsequent return to greater numbers of Sanderson games being played. Later in the year, we saw a changing of the guard of the moderators, saying a sad farewell to Metacognition and Gamma Fiend, with Seonid and myself now joining Wilson and Alv to run this subforum. We’re ending the year (albeit belatedly) on a note of change, too, and are proud to announce that Anonymous Games have been approved. This game, AG4, will be the first Anonymous Game, and further Anonymous Games will be played once each quarter. In order to sign up to run an anonymous game, you must have either GMd 4 games, or have played 15 games. To run an anonymous game, you must be at the top of both the anonymous waitlist, and that of another format. Anonymous Games are not a format of their own, but act as a modifier to games of a differing format. Unfortunately, 2017 also saw changes in our forum that have been less positive, with an increasing tendency towards inactivity. In the spirit of Cosmetic Roles last year, there will be a competition this game for three non-Sanderson game passes, allowing you to run a game not set in one of Sanderson’s works. This year, however, the competition will be based on activity, with a vote amongst players at the end of the game on which players have been the most active, and have done the most to encourage activity. Last year, Meta mentioned we had a secret challenge for three more non-Sanderson game passes. That challenge was also based on activity. We will be awarding those after this game ends as well. And now for the biggest change. To further combat the inactive tendency, we’re rolling out a warning system. At the end of each game, the impartial moderator will ask the GM for a list of the people who went inactive for most of the game. Those who gave the GM a heads-up regarding real life issues won’t have anything to worry about, but people who gave no heads-up will get a warning (this also includes people whose heads-up was just “I don’t feel like playing anymore”). One warning is like a minor slap on the wrist, merely meant to get a player realizing that going inactive without warning isn’t okay. It’s not meant to be a condemnation or make players feel unwanted in the games. Getting two warnings in three games, or three warnings in a six-month period will result in a three month ban from playing. Please, everyone, before you sign up for a game, think about whether you have time to play. If you know something will come up and you’ll only be able to play for so long, don’t sign up. This applies even if the GM would really like a certain number of players. Or if you think you’ll be dead by the time you’d go inactive. If something comes up unexpectedly, that’s understandable. Just let the GM know, and you’ll be fine. Hopefully, with everyone paying attention to their own activity, and perhaps reaching out to include others in the game so everyone is invested (and therefore less likely to go inactive), we can fix this inactivity problem. Housekeeping: AG4/AN1 will begin in 7 days time, at 10pm GMT on the 13th January. Ties will result in an even chance of death between all those tied for the most votes, with a single death occurring. Two votes minimum are required for a lynch. PMs are open until there are no remaining Edgedancers. Group PMs are allowed. Please include Stink and myself in all PMs. The order of actions will be as follows: -Lightweaver -Skybreaker -Windrunner -Dustbringer/Odium’s Sympathisers’ kill Wilson will be the IM for this game. In the first instance, please take any issues to Stink and myself, but if we’re unable to resolve them, or if there’s a conflict of interest, Wilson will step in to facilitate a resolution. Anonymous Accounts: Please sign up by PMing both Stink and myself, with your PM in the format: AG4: [Your Name]. At the start of the game, you will be issued an anonymous account. There are a number of rules associated with the use of an Anonymous Account. Please follow them carefully. Given the potential for abuse of Anonymous Accounts, any rule breaking using the accounts will be dealt with harshly. 1) Do not change the password of the anonymous account you are issued. Wilson, Stink and I will have access to all anonymous accounts for the duration of the game. 2) Do not use the anonymous accounts to PM any non-anonymous account, other than the accounts of the GMs. Please do not use your normal accounts to PM anonymous accounts. 3) Do not tell any other player or individual associated with SE, whether you are playing or not playing the Anonymous Game. Player identities will be revealed after the game, not on the death of their avatar. Players must not reveal their own identity after their death, until the end of the game, including in the dead/spec doc. Players wishing to spectate rather than play should PM Stink and myself for a link to the spectator doc. Questions and rules clarifications should be submitted in your sign up PMs, and will be posted by myself in the signups thread. 4) Do not change anything cosmetic about the accounts, including member title, username, signature, and avatar. Factions: Roles: This thread will be locked. As a reminder, and for those of you who haven’t read the rules (go back and do so), sign ups and spec doc requests must be by PM to Stink and myself, in the format AG4: [Your Name]. Quick Links:
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  12. Night 4: Everyone Start Panicking. Aspen whistled to herself merrily as she cooked herself a large breakfast. It was going to be a beautiful day, and she was certain it would also be a productive day. They had narrowed down who the Mistborn was, Marv, obviously. All they had to do was kill him today and then they could kill the infiltrators, and then the armies, and then someone else probably. She wasn’t picky. She poured herself some milk, put her eggs and toast on her plate, and sat down to eat. It was quite tasty, and she made sure to enjoy it. She wanted everything about this day to be perfect. Her breakfast finished, she headed out into the town. She was supposed to be at the Conference 2 hours ago, but they could lynch Marv without her. She needed some new plants for her garden. The prices would be high of course, but plants were worth any cost. If one couldn’t maintain a garden during a war, what could they do at all? Another 2 hours later, she entered her home, whistling a new tune to herself as she dumped the bags of seeds on the counter. She checked the clock and winced. 4 hours late, and another hour to get ready and get there would make 5. Ah well, there wasn’t a death penalty for being late. “Then we are agreed, we will kill Aspen because she is the Mistborn, and because she is not here to defend herself.” Aspen froze in the doorway. “Wait what?” The others in there room all turned to her. “Ah! Speak of the Devil!” Count Sen smiled at her. Then frowned, “Wait, does that saying make sense here?” “I’m not the Mistborn! Marv is!” Count Conrad raised an eyebrow as Marv sputtered. “I am quite certain you are wrong Aspen.” Marv finished sputtering. “Thank you.” “He’s obviously an Infiltrator.” “Gah! I am a villager!” “Lies and Slander!” “I’m also a villager!” “More Lies”! “Shut up Marv!” “You shut up Conrad!” “But you’re conrad. . .” “I thought I was Jax?” “Wait, what?” Everyone paused, including you, and worked their way through the conversation, then decided to ignore it and just Skip to killing Aspen and finding out she was just a village Smoker. Aspen was a Village Smoker 1! Votes: Aspen(4): Seonid, Straw, Steeldancer, HH HH(3): Aspen, Drake marshall, Elend Venture The Day will end in: Player List: Steeldancer - A dancer who wears steel toed boots. Straw - Adfus Syponr, A man who believes in Luck and Chance. Seonid - Count Sen Conrad the III, a man unrelated to something or other. Hemalurgic Headshot - Marv, Nothing unusual about him. Drake Marshall - Jay, Luthadel’s illiterate Librarian shanerockes - Phillip, the first of his line
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  13. OB chapter 3: Dalinar recruiting Teleb
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  15. Also the tired Shallan - I’ll give you she’s determined - determined to stuff Veil and Radiant (this is when Radiant switches to being Team Kal) into the back part of her brain. Want to take on the how the stuffing to back part of brain can be seen as a good thing? We got some great imagery of Shallan from Adolin’s PoV here. The “stood solidly on two feet” is fantastic, especially how it echos the forcefulness of the Wit illusion that “set her jaw and stood there.” @PhineasGage Welcome back!!! I for one missed your commentary!
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  16. I actually doubt this interpretation, mainly because of this WoB: This doesn't completely invalidate the idea, of course, Brandon could always swap a pair of flashback characters with respect to the books focusing on their Orders, e.g. make Renarin the flashback character for the Elsecaller book and make Jasnah the flashback character for the Truthwatcher book. But either he's doing a weird switch like that or Ash isn't going to be swapping Orders (or he's changed his plans since that WoB, but since that came from the end of 2014 when he had already decided on the current set of flashback characters, I think that's unlikely). Firstly, Jasnah is most definitely not unable to feel. There are a number of passages that make this clear, here's one from WoR: Secondly, I do really like the idea that Jasnah's flashbacks might be threaded through the first arc. It would be quite a twist if this reading Brandon did in 2014 was actually a reading from Stormlight 10 (or whichever book ends up being Jasnah's).
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  17. I'll start a new job tomorrow. Since getting accepted I was really excited. But now...I feel quite strange. Still excited, but also a bit insecure/nervous.
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  18. As promised, scenery photos from Dauphin Island off Alabama's southern coast (its only coast, in fact )! 5 photos under each spoiler:
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  19. I think it's safe to assume that Wayne is potentially everywhere and everyone at any given time.
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  20. I'm in a strange city where I don't really know anyone, it's cold, I have just a small room ... but it's for exciting reasons (internship starts soon!) and I have Oathbringer, my laptop, and my crochet with me, so I feel hype!
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  21. The wanders ail story is not about the Radiants and Honor. Honor didn't die until after the Recreance. It why he has a vision of the event. He remembers it. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/171/#e8144 Honor was dying. Not dead.
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  22. I considered making a dalinar-related sequence, but I'm no good at it. I mean, I wouldn't even be able to stick a drawing of dalinar on top of another image without leaving white spaces all around, because I only can copy-paste rectangular parts of a drawing. So I'll try to describe the scenes. Bear with me. 1) Image: a couple is about to marry, dalinar is officiant. Text: UNITE THEM! Caption: Dalinar likes every chance of uniting people 2) Image: a political map showing the various nations of europe, and dalinar with a flag of the european union Text: UNITE THEM! Caption: Dalinar does not approve of brexit 3) Image: Dalinar sponsoring a tube of glue Text: UNITE THEM! Caption: radiant super glue: binding things since the first desolation 4) Image: Bill Clinton and Sarah Palin, with dalinar putting a hand on each of their shoulders Text: UNITE THEM! Caption: Dalinar won't ever give up on a doomed cause 5) Image: a broken egg's shell, with dalinar trying to glue the pieces of the shell back together Text: UNITE THEM! Caption: Dalinar takes this whole "unity" thing a bit too far 6) Image: on the left, dalinar with two bits of string. On the right, dalinar having tied them into a knot Text: UNITE THEM! Caption: Dalinar always tries to be helpful
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  23. If you take as a given that geekery = introversion, then I see why you feel the way you do. However, those two traits are not necessarily married to each other. It is very possible to be extremely geeky and extremely extroverted - these traits are not mutually exclusive by any means. I have friends who take pedantic nerdery to levels previously unseen by mortal beings who are also exhaustingly extroverted people. They do exist. Navani is not at all unusual, and definitely not impossible.
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  24. I have repurposed this thread. Prior to now, it was dedicated to a single poem I wrote in regards to Kaladin. Here is the original post: However, I have since decided to make this a general Cosmere Poetry thread. I decided this when I realised that it would be silly to make multiple threads for individual poems: Instead, one place ought to do all. Whilst this thread serves the purpose of letting me post any Cosmere poetry I may write in the future, I would also more than welcome reading poems based on the Cosmere written by other 17th Shard users; as I understand it, you are a creative bunch. Happy writings!
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  25. We said there would be a December episode, and here we are on New Year's Eve with one! This month we have an extra long episode as well: over an hour and twenty minutes digging through the Arcanum Unbounded essays and picking apart everything in them. Shockingly, we were more than able to talk about these for a very long time. We dig through each of Khriss's essays. I feel we could have even talked longer, but I'm sure we will mention them a lot in the future. We also learn that I can't pronounce at least a thing, and Ian proves me wrong (fine, you win this time), showing he is probably the most competent one here. Let us know what you think in our forum thread: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/57421-shardkeepers-podcast-arcanum-unbounded-essays/ And if you hadn't seen it, the Star Chart. Our Hosts: Kerry (KChan), Ian (WeiryWriter), David (Windrunner), and Eric (Chaos)
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  26. Okay so I presented this idea to our facebook group and actually got a decent bit of pushback on it so I wanted to see what the Shard thought of it. Also, this thread will likely get pretty Cosmere spoiler-y so if you haven't read much other than Stormlight, you may get spoiled so tread at your own pace (Ironic as I haven't read Mistborn Era 2 yet) So, Wit totally bonded that Cryptic that Elhokar left, right? Okay, so now that we cleared that up: we know Hoid has the ability to just happen to be in the right place at the right time, but I had the inkling suspicion that Hoid was very interested in the abilities of Lightweavers (considering he already has a Yolish form of the magic) and that he might have been helping sort of "groom" proto-Lightweavers for a while now on Roshar so that he could get his hands on the magic system (something he has been doing throughout the Cosmere). So hear me out, Hoid was aware of Shallan's speaking of the Immortal Words/First Ideal when he confronted her during her flashback sequence and even used emotional Allomancy on her during the confrontation. He also served as King's Wit for Elhokar, whom was also a proto-Lightweaver. While Hoid has had a hand in the lives of the other MC Radiants, it seems as though he was more focused on the ones that were on the brink of becoming Lightweavers. I'm thinking that Hoid might have been grooming these Lightweavers so that when one of them eventually got killed (like a super young girl and a son of an assassinated king), he would pick up the spren. The Order is perfect for Hoid, he even says that he has many truths that he can tell the Cryptic. He has made it very clear when he spoke to Dalinar in WoR (I think) that he will watch Roshar burn if that's what it takes to get what he wants. He may not necessarily want that to happen because seems pretty apparent from his letters in each books' Part Two epigraphs that he wants to stop Odium and is begging for help from outside forces. But I also could see Hoid lurking for a Lightweaver to get killed and to try and salvage the spren considering that obtaining Surgebinding is a MUCH more complex task than eating a bead or obtaining someone's Breath. I could very well be wrong with this theory but I think it is neat regardless, but what do all of you think?
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  27. We all know about the Nahel bond between a special type of spren and a Knight Radiant, giving the spren the ability to fully manifest in the physical realm while giving the Radiant two Surges and the ability to take in stormlight on a continual basis to power these surges. In this thread, I speculated about a Gemheart bond, where a spren is captured inside a gemheart and bonds with the host of the gemheart: Human (e.g., Aesudan and Amaram), Parshendi (different spren give different forms), Various gravitation-defying creatures bonded to mandras (chasmfiends, greatshells, skyeels, and most likely thunderclasts), and Fabrials including Soulcasters and Urithiru. Venli appears to have formed a Nahel and a Gemheart bond with Timbre, as well as retaining her Gemheart bond with the Envoy spren to retain her Parshendi form of power. I believe that we'll soon see another dual-bond among Navini, the Sibling, and Urithiru using both the Nahel and Gemheart bonds to tie all three together. There have been many speculating that the Sibling is Urithiru, including my own speculation in the Gemheart bond thread. I want to clarify that the Sibling is not Urithiru but rather the spren that bonds to and powers Urithiru as well as bonding to her bondsmith. If the Sibling's bondsmith abandoned his or her oaths during the Recreance, that may explain why the Sibling and Urithiru have slumbered ever since, awaiting a new bondsmith to return. One of the WoR epithets tells us that only one of the bondsmiths is always with Urithiru, probably because the Sibling bondsmith will need to stay with her spren that will be captured inside Urithiru's gemheart, powering Urithiru. So, what makes me think this bondsmith will be Navani? All primary point-of-view characters have chapter art to denote the chapters which are primarily their own. Even though she'd had minor points-of-view before, Navani got her first primary POV chapter with Oathbringer in only one chapter: Chapter 95, Pieces of a Fabrial. The chapter art representation of Navani appears to be a giant, luminescent gemheart encased in what might be a fabrial: Obviously, one can argue that the fabrial image is perfect for Navani simply because Navani is the goddess of fabrials. But I would argue that this is probably what makes her the perfect choice as the sole Radiant whose bond is both Nahel and Gemheart. Who better to operate the Urithiru fabrial than Navani? Who better to stay with Urithiru than the ostensible Queen of Urithiru? Who better to be another bondsmith than Dalinar's wife?
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  28. I really love the Vin poster. Who are the two knights supposed to be?
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  29. I agree, Tanalan wasn’t a great person, but he was trying to fight what he saw was an opressive tyrant. Dalinar was the villian in that part, but honestly I think out of the three main characters Dalinar is my favorite, depsite that he was a horrible monster when he was younger.
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  30. It has to be Tanalan Jr. Tanalan the father did nothing reprehensible: he only tried to defend himself against an invading army with the means he had. Tanalan Jr launched a rebellion against the man who spared him. It can however be argued he was justified in not wanting to accept Gavilar's rule. I have a hard time picturing him as an antagonist to hate as I consider the antagonist, within the Rift story arc, was not Tanalan, but Dalinar.
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  31. Perhaps you could put them under spoiler tags with a warning about the blood so that they're available for people who want to see, but people who don't want to see don't get ambushed.
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  32. Navani is designing stormlight powered AIRSHIPS. I would be amazed if these don't feature in Stormlight 6-10 era. Explain how that fits into a character being 'vapid'?
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  33. I honestly don't know the Wax's parents names but I will strongly disagree with the Demoux & Aslydin's part. If if they were his ancestor too. That side of the family will be tained by the mixing genes and over centuries it would be mostly impossible for them to be able to gave offspring to a Feruchemist also, someone so important as Demoux will probably have a House if his bloodline progressed. Wax's grandmother also see the mixing bloodline as an abomination and her attitude is shared among the Terrismen. I believe they will never made her a chief among them if she is one of such abomination By the way, assuming a dinasty after Demoux will implicate they remained on Scadrial for decades and I believe Demoux's cameo in SA doesn't show him too old.
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  34. @Wit Beyond Measure I think that there were historical cases of Dysian Aimians becoming Knights Radiant, the back of book quote from TWoK heavily implies this: I think it would be freaking awesome to see some Sleepless Radiants, but this raises some interesting questions: How would the Nahel bond Work? We know that the Nahel bond is a symbiotic relationship between a higher spren and a Knight Radiant. The spren gains sapience and the KR gets access to 2 surges. I think what the spren is really getting is access to experience in a changing dynamic system, filtered through the cognitve lens of the consciousness of the KR. This cognitive filter helps the spren interpret that experience, which allows the spren to change and grow. We know that Shadesmar is far more static than the Physical Realm, which makes sense. Ideas evolve over time, but they have a certain fixity or else they wouldn't be commonly held ideas. We also know that the Singers think that the spren abandoned them for the humans because: I think this is pretty direct evidence of the above analysis, the Singers are basically stuck in one Cognitive mode, so how they view and experience the world, i.e. their cognitive filter, limits their perception of the world. Each form comes with an innate mentatility that consciousness sits behind. So given that Dysian Aimians are a vast complex of sensory apparatus, capable of distributing their consciousness across time and space, this seems like they should have Spren beating down their doors to form Nahel bonds. Talk about a fast track to Sapience for the bonded spren, they can be in multiple places, experiencing multiple different facets of reality from multiple perspectives filtered through the Cognitive lens of what is essentially a Cognitive entity. Would a Dysian Aimian be able to bond more than one higher Spren? So the one Sleepless we have seen is Arclo in Edgedancer, and he is building a Grand philosophy by examining how the parts of a thing make up the whole. He asks Lift what part of the body she thinks she is most like, and then he goes onto to describe a city as a vast organism composed of individual people that are like small pieces of this larger organism. This obviously parallels how his Identity works, but the more interesting part is the idea that Identity can be broken down into constituent pieces. Could a Dysian Aimian create multiple assemblages of hordelings that act like two or more people? What is the limit to this splitting apart and incorporating? Could you have a small town, populated with Hordeling puppets that are all the same Dysian Aimian? Could their identity be split apart where they can project into one Hordeling puppet the constituent quality of their Identity of Leading or Protecting? And into another the quality of Pious or Guiding? Ok, this is the fun bit. We've seen Shallan fracture her identity into 3 parts, how much easier would this be for a Dysian Aimian to do? We know that it is theoretically possible for humans to bond more than one spren from this WoB: Seems like with their ability to store memories externally into different hordelings, that it might be possible to intentionally create the perfect vessels to attract specific spren. Also, their is a mention of flying cremlings seen in the hills outside of Yeddaw, how rad would it be to have a Dysian Aimian Elsecalling Radiant composed out of flying cremlings that is sharing consciousness with another Knight Radiant Windrunner? Picture if you will, the Windrunner persona of the Sleepless painting a wide swath of the ground with a glowing line of Adhesion as the Elsecaller Sleepless persona flies through the air and turns into a giant hand composed of cremlings that flies into the back of the thunderclast stuck on the adhesion line and transforms his rocky body into Crystal. Freaking rad! Could a Dysian Aimian bond the Sibling??? I think this would be the best! The Sleepless could split off a portion of themselves to man the Engine Room back at Urithiru (consequently enough to maintain their consciouness if anything happens to their other hordelings making them functional unkillable) and have another portion of themselves fighting on the front lines. This would be rad, and it would be a way around the curse of the 3rd bondsmith, that of basically being consigned to fiddling with the controls of Urithiru while the war marches on. This is all speculative to be sure, but HOLY CRAP this would be RAD!
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  35. And the Spren could still have rejected him. Hoid seems to be collecting various investiture types, and so what if he could already lightweave. Now he can soulcast. And for someone with Allomancy, the ability to create metal is pretty freaking amazing.
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  36. Mraize was probably purchasing famous Shallash art works hoping she would come to destroy them. He seemed quite happy (for him) that she finally sneaked in disguised as a washwoman. Also, can I say that she likely destroyed the original of THIS, which should definetely count as a crime... Break the Oathpact, whatever, break this piece, nononono .
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  37. @FeatherWriter Thanks for that quote. I haven't read that scene since I finished OB. Adolin is much more emotional than I remembered. I think I forgot because Shallan is immediately side tracked by the "prize" discussion. Now I am conflicted because we still don't get much of a reaction in Adolin's POV. His reaction when he breaks up with Shallan could have as much to do with another failed relationship as with Shallan herself. I am still mostly frustrated by this scene, not satisfied. We start with Veil and Radiant wanting to be with Kaladin then Shallan stopping them because she wants to be with Adolin because "He knows me." Then we get the scene where Adolin believes Shallan has made her choice (and her choice was Kaladin.) But Shallan immediately refutes that idea. This is one of the only things we have an Adolin POV about; that Shallan is making eyes at Kaladin so much that Adolin believes she prefers Kaladin. If Adolin is wrong about this and Shallan insists he is then what is he right about? What does he know about Shallan that makes her decide she should be with him? If it is just that he knows what she looks like then Shallan could say that about anyone. If it is that he listens to her then that is a little better but I think it is more that Shallan can get away with lying to him. I think this is an outright lie. Shallan compares Adolin to a sculpture multiple times. She compares Kaladin to the wind (duh - maybe she's not as creative as she thinks she is.) In the chasm scene Kaladin calls her out for her lie about why she wanted to be out on the Shattered Plains. Shallan is relieved that Adolin had not thought of this. She is relieved she was able to manipulate him. I think this is still the case at the end of OB. @DeployParachute said it well.
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  38. I just want to push back on one point you made. Nale has said he will fight for the Singers, not for Odium. We do not know how that will manifest or how Nale will interpret that. Could he fight to free them from Odium? In the end you may be right, but Nale never says he will fight for Odium, just the Singers. This is not going to go the way you think.
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  39. Part of what you’re describing is, I think, one of the main themes we are supposed to take out of OB: that, even though the everstorm has come and has restored the Parshmen’s Connection and Identity, they are not instantly turned into evil Voidbringers. Most of the Parshmen are restored as what would be akin to a normal human; they don’t want to be enslaved, but they’re not mindless killing machines hellbent on destroying mankind. As for the army, the significance of the Everstorm is that the Fused, once killed, can simply return and take over a new host body. In previous desolations, it is suggested that the Fused came over at once or in waves, but once a Fused was killed, they returned to Braize and could not return in that desolation cycle. In current times, the Fused can be killed over and over and still return with the next passing of the Everstorm. Furthermore, in the last Venli scene from OB, the Fused are “excitedly” discussing why the Thaylenah battle went so poorly: namely that not all the Fused have “awakened,” and that some of those that have been awakened are so old/newly awakened that they’re more mindless than they had been before. Finally, for Odium’s army, even with the imprisonment of the Thrill, at least 7 Unmade remain at large (assuming Sja-Anat is now working to oppose Odium), and a few of these are considered to be sapient/intelligent. I think that it is premature to suggest that all of mankind on Roshar is united. Dalinar’s coalition, while impressive, is in a tenuous position at best. There are still factions within the coalition working against Dalinar, and Taravangian is now working alongside Odium (whether this will actually help Odium is another story, as I’m partial to the idea that the Diagram was a “plant” by Cultivation to throw Odium off or mislead him). We we will continue to learn more about the state of the Parsh people in book four given that it will focus on Eshonai for flashbacks and likely Venli in the present. It will be interesting to see if she will be able to bring together the factions of Parshmen uninterested in warring with the humans/working for Odium. TL;DR: Odium’s forces still have a lot left in the tank, and I do not believe the human coalition is not as rock solid as you seem to imply.
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  40. And judging by Dalinar's reaction to meeting his second son, Renarin, which is night and day with Adolin's birth scene, I don't think this was Brandon's misstep, at all. Every time Adolin and Renarin appear in Dalinar's flashbacks, they were contrasted, and this is one of those comparisons. I don't understand your criticism at all.
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  41. Radiant are made by their ideals not their professions. This is the tendency of the fandom to think the only characters that will matter are the character we know right now. We have only three bondsmiths, why would give one of those roles to a vapid character like navani? I would rather it be a character from another, something not human, or from another shard world, or something more unique. Remmeber this is the god-spren that is supposedly slumbering, the character to awaken it should be just as interesting as dalinar. Also its an extremely lazy choice, I can accept that the bridgemen can be windrunners because of the nature of kaladin's resonance, but navani is just laziness. Also navani isn't the one who invents all those fabrial,but her ardent. Sure she is part of the process, but not actually all that necessary.
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  42. I posted this in another thread, but it fits here as well:
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  43. Good discussion. I particularly enjoyed hearing some new voices: welcome to Matt and Shannon! Your input was great. Regarding the triangle as a whole, I felt that it was made more palatable because it was not there for its own sake. Yes, the relationships are important, but in my view the primary narrative purpose of the triangle was to highlight Shallan's fracturing psyche and to provide her personas the opportunity to conflict with each other. Since I LOVED Shallan's mental journey, having the triangle work in support of that made it a useful tool rather than a set of occasionally cringey interactions. I wanted to mention one major point in Adolin's favor. You brought up Shallan's aversion to being protected (which is kind of Kaladin's whole purpose in life, so there's another reason their pairing wouldn't go well). She has lived a very circumscribed life and is just now experiencing independence. She reacts badly to the renewed constraints of her wardship, and she seeks in each of her personas to avoid any hint of impotence. She needs to be capable. That's why Adolin's confession about Sadeas is so perfect. Shallan opens up a little about her insecurities, and rather than telling her what to do or how to fix it, he responds by saying, "Yeah, I know what it's like to lie to everybody. I have no idea how to deal with it. When you figure it out, please help me." That trust in her ability, the assumption that she'll figure it out before he does, and the invitation for her to be a strength to someone else is exactly the validation and empowerment that she is able to accept.
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  44. I had a different thought while reading this. There's a point in the book where Dalinar hears "Unite Them" and he asks the Stormfather if it was him who spoke. The Stormfather claims it wasn't him and Dalinar begins to wonder if he's going crazy hearing voices in his head. This experience, along with the use of the capital A in Ascension, leads me to wonder if a shadow/remnant of Honor himself is the one telling Dalinar to Unite them. And although we suspect that 'them' refers to the people of Roshar, what if it was Honor whispering to unite the splinters of his shard. He is a bondsmith that has the power of cohesion, which hasn't been fully explored, so there's a possibility that he could use his powers of uniting to renew the shard of Honor, or as someone shared earlier, perhaps bring the splinters together to form a new shard, Unity.
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  45. More seriously. Pain is relative. Never look at someone and judge because you've had it harder than them. The hardest things they've ever had to experience may seem like a cakewalk to you, but it's still the hardest thing they've ever experienced. Paraphrased and no, I don't know the source.
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  46. So in the latest version, the characters have never hoid of him?
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  47. When you look at the clock and realize you just spent three hours looking over theories and sanderson meme threads. And consider it the best three hours of your life.
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  48. When it's impossible to read other fantasy because they never provide enough justification or explanation of the magic system(s).
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  49. When you start considering the physical properties of magical energy sources in card games . . .
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