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Hi I've been lurking for a long time. Here is how I see it. In WOR I thought Shal Ado was cute but I preferred Shal Kal. My big problem with Shal Ado was that Shallan was not honest with Adolin. In the beginning of OB when Shal thinks "maybe I can explain" I thought oh man Shal Kal is over it's going to be Shal Ado. But Adolin cuts her off and she doesn't explain anything she makes Radiant instead. There were two things that Shal could have said 1. Vague: I have killed before and holding the shardblade causes me pain I just can't practice right now 2. Specific: I killed my mother. I hate my shardblade and want nothing to do with it. It hurts. So with the vague option I would have been meh. With the specific option I would have thought that Shal Ado was it and Shal Kal was wishful thinking. By the end of OB Shallan is still not honest with Adolin and I don't think she has any plans to be. She's a liar that's what she does best that's what she is comfortable with. She plans to tell Adolin about the Ghostbloods but not until after they are married. This to me is manipulative. She is maneuvering Adolin to marry her she is using him. I really dislike this. She seems to think Adolin will not care about her connection with the Ghostbloods (I think she's probably right) but if so why didn't she tell him before marrying him. Maybe because he would object to her close connection with a group that has tried repeatedly to assassinate his cousin Jasnah and Shallan herself and overall kills innocent bystanders. I got the impression Shal Ado were spending every moment together leading up to the wedding. There was time and privacy for Shallan to be honest with Adolin. She's not. More important than the Ghostbloods is the fact that Shallan has killed both her parents and she had a horrible childhood. (Adolin also had a horrible childhood though he may not see it that way and I don't think Shallan knows this and I don't think she is curious. What do they even talk about???) She has no intention to tell Adolin this. This is again manipulative. Even if Adolin's opinion of Shallan does not change because she's connected to the Ghostbloods his opinion of her would have to change after learning she killed both her parents and the circumstances around that (unless he is brain dead). We know Shallan hates herself. She calls herself a monster and worthless. She says she doesn't matter. With all that she probably thinks Adolin would think less of her if he knew her history. So she doesn't tell him or plan to tell him, but she does manipulate him into marrying her. She is using him. My one big objection to Shal Ado was that Shal is not honest with Ado. This is not resolved and yet they are married and apparently most readers are happy with the two of them together and believe they will solve any problems that they have in the future. *I am now banging my head against the wall* On top of all this I think Shallan is insane. I thought she was sane in WOK and WOR but OB convinced me she is insane. I do not believe she is mentally competent to agree to marriage. Short answer I was really disgusted with the rushed ending of OB.

I got a call from my cousin this morning. She was going through airport security but was pulled aside, because she was carrying Oathbringer and the size of it made them suspicious.

You just gotta just give into the Shalladin! Not even kidding though, once I came around to Shalladin being the end goal, all of my issues around this romantic plot went away. It's fake and rushed, because it actually is a fake and rushed (bad) decision for the character. But once I gave in, I could then appreciate these pretty adorbs little moments like the below. Not only do we have a bubbly enthusiastic Shallan, but also a mention of this delightful contrast that Brandon (through Wit and Shallan) so loves... Contrast quotes:

I don't see how Timbre could be a Cryptic, since we know what those look like and his appearance is completely different?

There were quite a few things that stuck out on my reread of Part 4, so here are some observations that I thought were interesting about Shadesmar on the second time through, broken up into the following sections; General Observations about Rosharan Shadesmar, Spren Economics, and Spren Children. .GENERAL OBSERVATIONS ABOUT THE ROSHARAN COGNITIVE REALM: SPREN ECONOMICS: (Mistborn Secret History Spoilers) SPREN CHILDREN: *EDIT* I just read the Jasnah scene where she escapes from the Wind's Pleasure into Shadesmar (thanks @BlackYeti for the link!) and it has this quite interesting bit about Stormlight in Shadesmar: This combined with the spren money-changer's ability to transfer Stormlight into and out of Perfect Gems and combined with what Syl tells Kaladin about the creation of Spren Children: This implies that wealthy enough spren might be able to create their own children. So the 1%-ers in Shadesmar probably have a reproductive advantage, sad to see inequalities reflected in the Cognitive Realm but c'est la vie. The fact that this raw power is fashioned into a specific type of spren is probably dependent on the type of spren that fashions this raw power. It's not exactly the stuff of Romance novels, but Ideas creating similar Ideas out of pure energy is a pretty awesome Idea.

Hi - A long, varied post because such excellent activity to finish out the year! I totally agree with what I've seen online (though I don't read reddit because I find is horrible to navigate due to that upvote/downvote thing which means things aren't chronological ), but oddly everyone who I know in real life who has read the books (these are people who are not involved in fan communities) thinks the romantic arc is in mid-swing and eventually the choice will be Kaladin. We're not dealing with a huge sample size here, but these were people I purposely didn't influence (given my disappointment in the arc so I was looking for independent viewpoints) who came down this way. I'm sure you've elaborated on this before, but what did you see in OB which was inconsistent with Adolin's character in the prior books? I definitely agree with you on the lack of development point. In general, I think all of Adolin, Shallan and Kaladin stagnated (or regressed) in this book, and I think that was intentional as their "growth" will occur in later books. If that growth never happens, I will be disappointed, but since I generally enjoyed the story we did see (even if it did lack character growth), I am happy with OB. Of course, both Shallan and Kaladin got plenty of page time (Shallan especially), and Adolin didn't, so that would be disappointing for an Adolin fan. I also think that Shallan and Kaladin had increased depth added to their characters even if no concrete growth occurred, whereas Adolin didn't really (in my opinion), so that is another thing to be disappointed about. But I'm curious to hear what inconsistencies you see! I feel like people tend to fall into three groups: (i) likes Shadolin (or Adolin) so are happy with the ending of OB (one side of this is dislikes Shalladin, so therefore likes Shadolin better), (ii) does not want to see any more romance in the books than absolutely necessary, so therefore are happy with the ending of OB so any possible future romantic development is eliminated (this one actually seems the most aggressive on this board) and (iii) maybe emotionally feels either (i) or (ii) or even pro-Shalladin but doesn't trust/believe in the literary foreshadowing. I think with (iii) it doesn't matter how much you put in front of someone, but until the overt storyline shows Shallan and Kaladin in an explicit relationship, no amount of evidence will matter. For (i) and (ii), I do feel like some of the hostility or lack of desire to engage is because those groups do not want to see any evidence which goes against their strong feelings. So it's hard to get an explanation with that dynamic! I so agree with your second point; I'm on a second full read (after a full reread of WoK and WoR post-OB), and I am loving OB on redo more than WoR! There's so much to dig into. We do get a lot of info dumping to resolve some of the mysteries, but much, much more is teased and left hanging for future resolution. I do trust that there will be future resolution, so I don't see this as a bad thing. Other may vary on this! I will (as you know!) object to your cigar is just a cigar analogy. I think it's one thing to stretch to try and find evidence to support a position. (We've all been there.) But here, it's just below the surface, and I feel like it smacks you in the face upon a reread. So I would say... cigar paper covering a firework is not a cigar; it's a firework which will explode in your face if you try to light it Since this is my favorite exercise... passages which jump out to me upon a reread (currently towards the beginning of part 3.) First, just a note about how much Kaladin and Shallan interact in Part 2 which is not shown - flight to Thaylen City (that one is the most obvious), flying to the surrounding mountains to sketch Urithiru (per Shallan's sketch which has Kaladin in it), mentions by Shallan of conversations she had with Kaladin (flying to TC, how many people he could bring to Kholinar), mentions by Kaladin of conversations he had with Shallan (hilariously his "pointed suggestion" that she not bring Gaz to Kholinar, lol.) There's a striking contrast between the one scene in part 2 we see of Shallan and Kaladin together (where she draws him after his spat with Jasnah) and the little hints we get that a lot more interaction occurred. Once we see them interacting in Kholinar, there's a certain level of familiarity which follows from this part 2 interaction. Before OB, their only one-on-one interaction was the chasm scenes (which was interaction forced by circumstance), so the amount of interaction afterwards is a definite contrast. In particular, why did Kaladin ask Shallan to go to TC? She says (to Elhokar) it's because she has stormlight and could survive a fall, but so does Renarin and he's technically one of Kaladin's men. Renarin seems like the much more logical choice. Second, below is from the flight to Kholinar. Just look at this independently... which boy is Shallan flirting with here?? Third, Shallan's justification of making Kaladin hideous for their entrance to Kholinar is interesting. She makes Adolin a handsome older man (see Kaladin's impression below - if we needed any Kadolin evidence on Kaladin's side, this is a rather flattering description ) and then tells Kaladin she had to make him grotesque since he "has a way of sticking in people's heads", hmmmmmm. Anyways, I know you're solidly in group (iii) that I set out above (won't be convinced until Shallan and Kaladin are explicitly together) so we can definitely agree to disagree, but while I absolutely agree that in WoR and OB part 1 there was a love story between Adolin and Shallan with Kaladin occasionally inserted, after that, to me it is reading like a love story between Kaladin and Shallan with Adolin occasionally inserted. My current thinking is that is why the ending felt so jarring; it's not like we had two equal romances going on. We had one developing romance (not like it was perfect, I agree the "I wish I could hide my feelings" scene was bad) and one romance which stopped developing a quarter of the way through the book (even the "big" Shallan/Adolin scene after part one, their talk on Honor's Path, is interrupted by Kaladin.) So, a very, very long way of saying that even absent the literary foreshadowing, I don't see a cigar. I saw a cigar in WoR. I saw a cigar in the preview chapters. But after that, it disintegrated. As @SLNC notes (thank for the shoutout!), I have come to believe Adolin doesn't have that strong of feelings for Shallan. Or if he does, Brandon has gone out of his way to make it seem like he doesn't in Adolin's PoVs. So I see Shalladin as actually the pro-Adolin ship. I really like Adolin, and I'm hoping he gets some better development and has some emotional struggles which he emerges from all the stronger. (I think there is some evidence for Dark Adolin, but that wouldn't be my preferred path.) And as part of this, since I am an incurable romantic in literature, I really want Adolin to have a romance that rocks his world and makes him feel strong emotions. We know this is possible for Brandon to show even for secondary characters (look at all of the strong romantic emotions in Mistborn Era 1 outside of Vin/Elend), and I want to see him feel those things! Navani has drastically less viewpoints than Adolin, and in her PoVs, we can feel her emotions for Dalinar. (Her "Justice" chapter in WoR is heartbreaking and then exhilarating.) I want Adolin to get that treatment, and right now, the romance with Shallan is just not giving that to him.

It is known to most Cosmere fans that Hoid is a fan of the college student's favorite meal: instant noodles. The question is, however, where would he have had something like this in a universe that is predominantly High Fantasy? The answer is simple.To quote a WoB: Now what would be stopping our wittty, white-haired friend from stopping by his local Taldain Conveniences and buying a 24 pack of Lossand Spice flavored ramen? That lies with one issue. One large issue invested into the Dayside star of Taldain. Bavadin--being the bearer of the shard Autonomy--has limited off-world travel in and out of Taldain, restricting our snarky Yolish Worldhopper's options to pushing development in other regions in the direction of plastic cups and fried noodles. This would explain his interest in Scadrial, it being one of the most technologically advanced Shardworlds outside of Taldain. Given a push in the right direction, Hoid could be seeing his noodles in less than a century--with Scadrial currently being analougous to Late 1800s/Early 1900s Earth. Naturally, anyone would be mad if someone took away a ready supply of their favorite food and forced them to push a world's development for around a century just to get at it again. As a result, it wouldn't be too much of a logical jump for Hoid to bear a grudge against Bavadin for trying to stem his instant noodle addiction. (please be gentle, this is my first theory post)

There are a handful of decent, well-written, well-thought of critics of OB onto Amazon and Goodread, if you are interested. The book, on average, is still getting stellar rates, but if you read through the critics, you find most people found the book disappointing on one side or another: even those who still gave it 4-5 stars. Now, this nowhere is a detailed comment as I did not make statistic, but the most common critics I have seen were with respect to the pacing, Shallan's character, characters in general, too many viewpoints from minor characters those readers didn't care about. I think I read commentaries with respect to the wedding, but this thread is pretty unique. I haven't seen many people thinking the love triangle is not over. Some people have also critic the book on Reddit as well, but those critics tend to be drowned within the rest. Negative comments are also often downvoted unjustly so it makes people wary of writing them. People are not doing it because people have no channels to safety do it. In this thread, you have people who think alike and are happy to discuss the one element they are disappointed the most about. There are no equivalent thread for the other aspects of the story some of us find lacking. Hence, there is literally no place where it is safe to discuss what some of us are perceiving as either disappointment or weaknesses into the book. There aren't enough people willing to take the plunge and publicly state what they feel is not working in the book: there are very few people to state Brandon may have written a disappointing book, even if there are people who think it is the case.

My goal in this thread is to analyze the Death Rattles we have answers to, may have answers to, or have no answers to. I have included Coppermind annotations, with my own annotations beneath in bold. In my interpretations, I am working from the belief that the Death Rattles are entirely forward-looking. I have numbered the Death Rattles in the order they appear in the Coppermind in order to mention links between them more easily. 1. You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me! While the sun is still hot, I die! ” — Collected on Chachabah 1171, 10 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed soldier thirty-one years of age. Sample is considered questionable.[7] This sample is unclear, although I speculate that this is a foreshadowing of Jezrien's murder. 2. “The love of men is a frigid thing, a mountain stream only three steps from the ice. We are his. Oh Stormfather... we are his. It is but a thousand days, and the Everstorm comes. ” — Collected on Shashahes 1171, 31 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed pregnant woman of middle years. The child did not survive.[8] It is estimated this came exactly 1229 days before the advent of the Everstorm. It is possible that these Rattles are less than fully accurate, or that whoever gave this death rattle valued poetry over technically accurate detail or, given the specific phrasing, that this was perhaps a foreshadowing to a time 229 days in the future when someone else would prophecy that it would be 1000 days until the Everstorm. I largely agree here with the Coppermind author. It is worth considering that the timing may be deliberately wrong since Moelach can apparently send disinformation through the Rattles. 3. “Ten orders. We were loved, once. Why have you forsaken us, Almighty! Shard of my soul, where have you gone? ” — Collected on Kakashan 1171, 5 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a lighteyed woman in her third decade.[9] The "ten orders" could be a reference to the Knights Radiant, and their belief that the Almighty had abandoned them could have led to the Day of Recreance. I think in this case the subject is clearly a Knight Radiant. "Shard of my soul" is likely in reference to a spren. Little else can be inferred here, although I disagree with the idea that this refers to the Recreance, as Death Rattles seem to be forward-looking rather that backward. 4. “A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The waters surged beneath, so far beneath. And he heard a child crying. They were his own tears. ” — Collected on Tanatesev 1171, 30 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a cobbler of some renown.[10] Unclear at this point who this refers to. I theorize that this is either Dalinar overlooking the destruction of Kholinar or a future version of Taravangian watching Kharbranth being destroyed. 5. “I'm dying, aren't I? Healer, why do you take my blood? Who is that beside you, with his head of lines? I can see a distant sun, dark and cold, shining in a black sky. ” — Collected on Jesanach 1172, 11 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a Reshi chull trainer. Sample is of particular note.[11] This rattle appears to reference Shadesmar, based on the description of the sun and sky, and a Cryptic. I agree with the analysis of the author here. However, I would go farther and suggest that there is either a Lightweaver among the Silent Gatherers or that Vedel is among them. Given the twisting of the Heralds and Vedel's association with love and healing, this would make sense. 6. “I have seen the end, and have heard it named. The Night of Sorrows, the True Desolation. The Everstorm. ” — Collected on Naneses 1172, 15 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed youth of unknown origin.[12] 7. “I'm cold. Mother, I'm cold. Mother? Why can I still hear the rain? Will it stop? ” — Collected on Vevishes 1172, 32 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a lighteyed female child, approximately six years old.[13] These two seem to be general predictions of the Everstorm. 8. “They are aflame. They burn. They bring the darkness when they come, and so all you can see is that their skin is aflame. Burn, burn, burn... ” — Collected on Palahishev 1172, 21 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a baker's apprentice.[14] Refers to the properties of Stormform Parshendi, particularly the part about burning. Their skin is black and red, easily described as aflame. 9. “Victory! We stand atop the mount! We scatter them before us! Their homes become our dens, their lands are now our farms! And they shall burn, as we once did, in a place that is hollow and forlorn. ” — Collected on Ishashan 1172, 18 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a lighteyed spinster of the eighth dahn.[15] This rattle appears to refer to humans conquering Roshar and exiling the Dawnsingers to Braize. I disagree with the author here. Again, I see Death Rattles as a forward-looking mechanism. This to me represents the Fused describing their plan for the world as they drive humans back. 10. “Ten people, with Shardblades alight, standing before a wall of black and white and red. ” — Collected on Jesachev 1173, 12 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject an ardent member of the the Silent Gatherers, overheard during his last moments.[16] This to me represents the defense of Thaylenah. The ten would be Dalinar, Kaladin, Szeth, Lift, Teft, Jasnah, Shallan, Renarin, Ash, and Taln. You could easily also argue Venli to replace either Ash or Taln. 11. “Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns. ” — Collected on Chachanan 1173, 84 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a cutpurse with the wasting sickness, of partial Iriali descent.[17] This rattle apparently refers to the sixteen Shards of Adonalsium, three of which (Honor, Cultivation, and Odium) are invested in Roshar. Here I 100% agree with the author. 12. “I'm standing over the body of a brother. I'm weeping. Is that his blood or mine? What have we done? ” — Collected on Vevanev 1173, 107 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was an out-of-work Veden sailor.[18] Unknown. May represent a future division in an order of the Knights Radiant. 13. “He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear! ” — Collected on Vevahach 1173, 8 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a prostitute of unknown background.[19] I think this refers to Dalinar. The title is Bondsmith. The tower is Urithiru, the crown is Dalinar's position as overking. The spear I do not have an explanation for as yet. 14. “The burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh, Almighty, release me. ” — Observed on Palaheses 1173, collected secondhand and later reported to the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a wealthy lighteyes.[20] This rattle appears to be from the perspective of the Herald Talenel, the only Herald to be return, through death, to wherever the Heralds went to be tortured between Desolations at the end of the Last Desolation. This foreshadows Taln's breaking under torture and beginning the Desolation. 15. “A woman sits and scratches out her own eyes. Daughter of kings and winds, the vandal. ” — Collected on Palahevan 1173, 73 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a beggar of some renown, known for his elegant songs.[21] This rattle is believed to refer to the Herald Shalash, the daughter of the Herald Jezrien, Herald of Kings and patron of the Order of Windrunners.[22] Shalash is also Baxil's mistress who destroys art, including depictions of a specific Herald, believed to be those of Shalash herself. This sample is particularly interesting. If the Rattles are really forward-looking, this suggests that Shalash has recently started her destruction of artwork. Given that Ishar has only recently ignited a religious war, and that statues of Shalash still exist (as they would likely not after 4,000 years of focused destruction), what have the Heralds been doing and where have they been between the last Desolation and now? 16. “Light grows so distant. The storm never stops. I am broken, and all around me have died. I weep for the end of all things. He has won. Oh, he has beaten us. ” — Collected on Palahakev 1173, 16 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a Thaylen sailor.[23] This may be a description of the coming of the Everstorm, but I believe that this is more likely a future event. 17. “I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw. ” — Collected on Shashanan 1173, 23 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed youth of sixteen years. Sample is of particular note.[24] Unknown as yet, but likely to refer to a climatic event. 18. “Re-Shephir, the Midnight Mother, giving birth to abominations with her essence so dark, so terrible, so consuming. She is here! She watches me die! ” — Collected on Shashabev 1173, 8 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed dock-worker in his forties, father of three.[25] Foreshadowing of the murders in Urithiru by the Midnight Essence. This could actually be a description of Sadeas' death, as it is the first to be mimicked. 19. “The death is my life, the strength becomes my weakness, the journey has ended. ” — Observed on Betabanes, 1173, 95 seconds pre-death, collected secondhand and later reported to the the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a scholar of some minor renown. Sample considered questionable.[26] This rattle appears to reference the First Ideal of the Knights Radiant: Life before Death. Strength before Weakness. Journey before Destination. Agreed. Sample may also be a prediction of a Knight Radiant breaking their vows, or Taln breaking under torture on Braize. 20. “Above the final void I hang, friends behind, friends before. The feast I must drink clings to their faces, and the words I must speak spark in my mind. The old oaths will be spoken anew. ” — Collected on Betabanan 1173, 45 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a lighteyed child of five years. Diction improved remarkably when giving sample.[27] This rattle appears to be from the perspective of Kaladin during the Battle of the Tower, moments before he swears the Second Ideal of the Windrunners. The "final void" is a chasm over which he is jumping. The "friends behind, friends before" are the members of Bridge Four behind him and the army of Dalinar Kholin trapped by Parshendi before him. The "feast I must drink" is Stormlight stored in the gemstones knotted into the malen Parshendi's beards. The "words I must speak" is the Second Ideal. The "old oaths" are the Immortal Words. Agreed. Very clear interpretation here. 21. “In the storm I awaken, falling, spinning, grieving. ” — Collected on Kakanev 1173, 13 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a city guardsman.[28] This may refer to Szeth during his fight with Kaladin. He falls, spinning through the storm. He grieves for his actions. He is awakened in the storm by Nale when he is revived. 22. “The darkness becomes a palace. Let it rule! Let it rule! ” — Collected on Kakevah 1173, 22 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed Selay man of unknown profession.[29] This refers to the corruption of the Queen of Alethkar by Yelig-nar. 23. “I wish to sleep. I know now why you do what you do, and I hate you for it. I will not speak of the truths I see. ” — Collected on Kakashah 1173, 142 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a Shin sailor, left behind by his crew, reportedly for bringing them ill luck. Sample largely useless.[30] Subject may be resisting speaking their visions because they understand what the Silent Gatherers are doing. 24. “They come from the pit, two dead men, a heart in their hands, and I know that I have seen true glory. ” — Collected on Kakashah 1173, 13 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a rickshaw puller.[31] This rattle appears to refer to Kaladin and Shallan Davar returning to the Warcamps at the Shattered Plains following an ill-fated expedition. The "pit" is a reference to the chasms. the "two dead men" are Kaladin and Shallan, presumed to be dead after falling into a chasm. The "heart" is an emerald gemheart they harvested from a chasmfiend they encountered and killed on their return journey. Very straightforward interpretation. 25. “I see them. They are the rocks. They are the vengeful spirits. Eyes of red. ” — Collected on Kakakes 1173, 8 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed young woman of fifteen who was reportedly mentally unstable since childhood.[32] This rattle refers to the awakening of Thunderclasts.[33] This is further reinforced in Oathbringer, where the "vengeful spirits" are the mindless Fused. 26. “That chanting, that singing, those rasping voices. ” — Collected on Kaktach 1173, 16 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a middle-aged potter who reported seeing strange dreams during highstorms during the previous two years.[34] Possibly referencing the events at the end of Words of Radiance, and the summoning of the Everstorm. The most logical interpretation so far. 27. “Let me no longer hurt! Let me no longer weep! Dai-gonarthis! The Black Fisher holds my sorrow and consumes it! ” — Collected on Tanatesach 1173, 28 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed female street juggler.[35] The Silent Gatherers have noted a similarity between this death rattle and one they denote as "sample 1172-89". Unclear. May suggest that Dai-Gonarthis is an Unmade that draws strength from sorrow and pain. 28. “They named it the Final Desolation, but they lied. Our gods lied. Oh, how they lied. The Everstorm comes. I hear its whispers, see its stormwall, know its heart. ” — Collected on Tanatanes 1173, 8 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was an Azish itinerant worker. Sample of particular note.[36] Straightforward prediction of the Everstorm. 29. “All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds. ” — Collected on Tanatanev 1173, 18 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed mother of four in her sixty-second year.[37] Refers to Kaladin saving the king from Moash during the storm. I am forced to disagree with this interpretation. While it could be argued that Moash saved Kaladin's life, the description "the one who killed my promises" seems to not fit Elkohar very well. Kaladin also does not raise his hand until after the Stormfather and Syl have a minor disagreement. I personally feel that this fits Dalinar much better, as he is the one most likely to be able to make a storm respond by raising his hand. Also, the "All is withdrawn for me" section seems more inline with an Ascended Dalinar than Kaladin defending Elkohar. 30. “Above silence, the illuminating storms—dying storms—illuminate the silence above. ” — Collected on Tanatanev 1173, 18 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was an illiterate Herdazian.[6] Refers to the collision of the Everstorm and highstorm at the end of Words of Radiance. 31. “He watches! The Black piper in the night. He holds us in his palm... playing a tune that no man can hear! ” — Observed circa 1172. Subject was Cenn, a member of Kaladin's squad in Brightlord Meridas Amaram's army.[38] This likely refers to one of the Unmade, possibly Dai-gonarthis. Further analysis is impossible at this point. Possibly connected to 27. 32. “They break the land itself! They want it, but in their rage they will destroy it. Like the jealous man burns his rich things rather than let them be taken by his enemies! They come! ” — Observed circa 1173. Subject was Gadol, a member of Bridge Four.[39] Refers to the soul of the Fused, destroying the whole world in order to destroy the humankind.[40] This may also relate to Dalinar's vision of the world crumbling. This may be one possible outcome of the war. 33. “And all the world was shattered! The rocks trembled with their steps, and the stones reached toward the heavens. We die! We die! ” — Observed circa 1173. Subject was Maps, a member of Bridge Four.[41] See also 32. These are likely related. 34. “The day was ours, but they took it. Stormfather! You cannot have it. The day is ours. They come, rasping, and the lights fail. Oh, Stormfather! ” — Collected circa Tanat 1173 by Taravangian. Subject was a young boy.[5] May refer to the final battle at the end of Words of Radiance. If not, likely foreshadows a future battle. 35. “So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life... ” — Observed circa Ishi 1173 by Taravangian. Subject was King Valam of Jah Keved.[4] Prediction that someone will be allowed to live and therefore Odium will win a victory. Possibly connected to 17.

I suspect that they are trying to prevent Worldhoppers from getting to Roshar--even beyond people like Hoid and Vasher. There are a lot of really powerful people in the Cosmere that would not want Odium to escape his prison, and would have an interest in stopping him if it seems like it could happen. So they may also just be trying to keep those people out.

I'm so glad it convinced you. Too many people just drop that it didn't (which is fine) and never explain why (which isn't so cool). My initial reasoning was exactly the opposite. Adolin has everything that a human being can ask for, at least all he can be given without doing much on his own - looks, position, family, wealth, talent... He's the most privileged of the privileged (and I'm not usually sensitive about this). Everything Kaladin has is his own doing. He deserves some storming luck for a change.

This can be easily demonstrated through an application of basic set theory: Take the letters in the word "Rayse': r, a, y, s, e. Order them alphabetically, producing the set R = { a, e, r, s, y } Now take 'bacon', which gives the set B = { a, b, c, n, o } We can understand Odium's past interactions with bacon by looking at the intersection of these two sets, R ∩ B = { a } Of course any cosmere scholar will immediately recognize that a solitary 'a' must represent Adonalsium. Therefore, it is proven that Rayse has consumed all bacon since the time of the Shattering. He takes not only pain and other strong emotions, but also delicious and crispy pig products. No wonder Hoid doesn't like him!

I've been browsing other Stormlight communities, like the one on Reddit (and even reviews of Oathbringer) and it's kind of disappointing that nobody else has seen any of what we've talked about here. Most commenters I've seen are either praising the resolution of the book to the heavens or disappointed with it entirely, due to being boring in the middle section.

Day 2: Oh, it’s Alv’s Carpet Zane perched on the tip of Kredik Shaw, looking over the city his father had come to conquer. His Brother’s City. The tomb of the Lord Ruler. Luthadel. The city was full of rats, and spiders. God wanted him to kill both, kill everyone in the city, but Zane only wanted to kill the Spiders. Vin wanted the Spiders dead, and maybe if he helped her, she would finally see him as he saw her. Free. The rats had killed a spider earlier that day, and Zane had ransacked the man’s house afterward. He had found things the rats had missed. Words that pointed to the Tineye, Varun, as being another spider. Zane pushed himself off Kredik Shaw. It was time to obey God. Fynn Seidel and another infiltrator crouched in an alleyway outside or Lamur’s home. After the day’s events, they had decided that just killing Elend wouldn’t work. Some of Luthadel’s allomancers had banded together and killed Thorn, so they needed to start killing the more useful allomancers as well. Starting with the “Why a Tineye sir? Without him we can’t get through the night as quickly?” “There’s two.” Fynn peeked around the corner again. “Even after we kill Lamur, we can still use Varun to run our messages. It only takes one man to deliver a paper.” “Ah, true sir.” Inside Lamur’s house, a candle flickered to life. “He’s back. Go watch the front, make sure he can’t escape.” The other man scurried off, and Fynn left the alley, taking up position beside Lamur’s door. Varun carefully slipped a blank white envelope under the door, then padded away into the misty night. That had been his last message to deliver, so it was finally time for bed. The mist swirled around him, hugging him. It was always peaceful this time of night. Everyone save the schemers and allomancers were abed. And the murderers. The mist above him split open, giving him far too little warning of the falling mistborn. The man slammed into his head and shoulders, bowling him forward onto the cobblestone street. He gasped and gagged as air and blood were expelled from his mouth. “I do hope you were a Spider Varun, and not a rat. God says he can’t tell the difference, and that I should murder both, but it would still be a waste of time.” Varun’s sight began to tunnel, and the last thing he saw as he died was that he had spat out his own toungue. “Lamur want a waffle. Squak! Lamur want a waffle.” Lamur the parrot tineye waddled over to the table and grabbed a match box. He struck the match against one of his talons and lit the candle. He could fly another message now, if anyone else needed some. Whoo, hoo. Lamur cocked his head at the back door. There weren’t any owls in Luthadel. Why the heck was someone in his backyard pretending to be an owl? The front door was kicked open, and a man in a grey cloak strode into his house, a sword in his hand. Lamur took to wing immediately, his hard earned instincts telling him that this man did not want to deliver messages. Before he could reach the door, there was a snicker snack as the sword swept through him and threw his pieces at a wall. “Squack! No Waffles for Lamur. No waffles.” The parrot chirped sadly as the man raised his boot, and stomped downward toward him. Living Legend and Devotary of Spontaneity were Village Tineye 1’s! Remember, No PM's during the day. The Day will end in Player List:

I've said it elsewhere, and I'll say it again. This seems to be what has always been planned, and the juxtaposition of Eshonai's flashback to listener culture, and discovering the humans, next to current Venli and her interactions with the new singers... I'm far more excited for next book than I ever was for Eshonai alone.

Chocolarzin looked up pleading at the three who towered over him. Droughtbringer and Autch Vat had decided that Chocolarzin seemed suspicious, and they were determined to beat a confession out of him, rather than take another unsure decision to Koralis. "Who's in charge of the Black Sands?" "Why'd you kill Grevilar?" "What's the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?" "Who's a good boy?" Apparently Chocolarzin had taken leave of his senses as Talzeen joined in at the end, finding peacefulness in unconsciousness, and resting forever. Try as they might, though, the three accusers could find nothing linking to the Black Sands, so they slunk off and neglected to report to Koralis, fearing his wrath. A Budgie has been lynched! They were a Kor Thief! Player List: This cycle will end in 24 hours, at 8PM EST on Sat Dec 30.

The spren would probably possess the 9. Can you imagine the Nazgul under the effects of the Thrill?

I made these and wanted to share. Comes in two flavors. That's all! Latest Revision: Old Revisions: 1: Original. 2: Ishar at top and divine attributes. Numbers removed, numerals moved. 3: Surge symbols, gemstones, and essences. Divine attributes moved. 4: Made from scratch for clarity and misalignment problems. Colorful order names. Minor moves and resizing. Multiple black options. 5: A few more varieties of black, just with different shades for the white text. 6: Fixed spelling of Pailiah

*EDITED* See bottom of OP for Potential Problems with this theory. These have more or less been resolved by the WoB about Rosharan Shard colors, added below. Grab some popcorn, this is a long one, but well worth the read. The primary thesis of this theory is that 3 primary modes of distribution of Investiture existed on Roshar prior to the shattering of Adonalsium, and that Voidlight as it is used to power the voidbinding of the Fused is a hacked magic system and is not Odium's actual manifestation of Investiture. An extension of this thesis is that the 3 pre-shattering modes of distribution of investiture (previously splinters of Adonalsium) translate to the post-shattering 3 primary god spren that the Bondsmiths are able to bond. 2 of these splinters have been absorbed into the intents of Cultivation and Honor, while the 3rd god spren is separate and is possibly still a composite of different shardic investiture, but is not of Odium. All WoBs are going to be in spoiler tags so you can read them if you want to or not. We know from a couple WoB's that after Adonalsium was shattered, all pre-existing investiture was assigned to a shard but also there wasn't a 1 to 1 correspondence, rather the investiture was proportionally assigned to different shards based on the nature of the pre-existing investiture and the intent of the shard. Also what has been previoulsy referred to as Voidlight I will be calling violet light, because I think voidlight implies a causal link that is not there. You can see by this WoB that Brandon is somewhat cagey about linking this violet light to Voidbinding: I believe these were the 3 means of distributing Investiture that existed before Adonalsium was shattered: The highstorm (distributes storm light, post-shattering was invested by Honor) The ecological system for maintaining life on a rocky soil-less system and general distribution of life based magic across Roshar (distributes crem, minerals, etc to plants, helps life-based spren become sentient and creates magic purelake fish. I believe the vehicle for distribution of this investiture is the high storm as well and is invested by Cultivation. Further I think this god spren is the gigantic spindly legged glowing form seen walking in the highstorm) The force that allows gemhearts to be created, and allows gemhearted life to bond with spren by creating an invested focal point for the other two forms of investiture (this is the shardicly unaligned force, and the conversion of stored investiture to energy (i.e. the burning away of the gemheart), presents as violet light, while the natural coalescing of this investiture results in the creation of the gemheart itself). FOUNDATIONAL FACTS (Rosharan Ecology and Investiture Pre-shattering) We know from this WoB that the Highstorms are a pre-shattering phenomena on Roshar: And further we know that the Parshendi were created pre-shattering from this WoB: And that they bonded spren pre-shattering as well from this WoB: We also know, post shattering, that the Parshendi can only change forms during a Highstorm (prior to the Everstorm), this implies that Stormlight investiture is necessary for the transformation and further that Stormlight investiture was distributed by the Highstorm pre-shattering. From these data points we know the following: Highstorms and the means of distributing stormlight existed pre-shattering Investiture was used to faciliate life on Roshar pre-shattering Gemhearts and mechanisms to affect life (physical transformation) existed pre-shattering. SUPPORTING DETAILS The three moons are highly symbolic, and we know that Adonalsium created the Rosharan system before the arrival of Honor, Cultivation and Odium, so it seems somewhat safe to assume that the Rosharan moons existed pre-shattering as well. Salas the violet moon which rises first in the night time sky (possibly representing the force of investiture that allows the growth of the gemheart vessel that can house the renewable form of investiture, i.e. stormlight) Nomon the blue moon which rises second and is, according to the Natan origin myth story, the most powerful of the moons (makes sense because it is possibly the most active vehicle for distribution of investiture in the form of Stormlight) Mishim the green moon that according to the same myth is the cleverest of the moons. The color associated with Honor and the direct investiture of the Highstorm is blue (Honorspren are blue, stormlight breathed out or leaking out of skin manifests as blue light as well). The color associated with Cultivation is Green (the color of lifespren, the color of the Nightwatcher) The color associated with Odium is yellow-white (the color of voidspren, the color of the metal of the Dagger Moash uses to kill Jezrien) I think, meaningfully, the color violet does appear but not with any specific association to any of the 3 shards. It's the color of greatshell blood and also is the color of the carapace of Chasmfiends. Also, I think that the one real clue that we've gotten about voidbinding, namely the Voidbinding chart in the endpapers of TWoK shows two different colors of connection between each order of Voidbinder and the surges that they access, yellow and violet, and I think this explains a lot. Here's the chart: Note the yellow lines in the chart connect the orders of Voidbinders together, but don't connect to the surges themselves, those are all violet connections. Also note how the two god's eyes orders of Voidbinders don't have any direct violet connections, they instead show violet energy radiating out from the gem that they are contained in. I think that this is the strongest proof that Voidbinding uses a separate investiture to access the surges, and that further, as we see voidbinding working with the Fused, they are converting the gemhearts of their Singer host's from stored material investiture into energy to access a particular surge. The energy comes from the conversion of the gemheart, the focus comes from the voidbinding. Also, interesting to note, the two god's eye surges suggest that their could be two Orders of Voidbinders that are able to convert and distribute violet light investiture to other Voidbinders. We know from a WoB that Renarin uses Stormlight to fuel voidbinding (specifically seeing into the future), so voidbinding isn't only fueled by violet light investiture: I think that if Renarin's eyes glowed red when he was seeing the future that it would have been mentioned in the scene where Jasnah almost kills him. The fact that his eyes don't glow red, shows that this use of Voidbinding is not a hacked implementaton (unlike for the Fused whose eyes glow red, or the storm form Parshendi who's eyes also glow red). This implies that the conversion of the stored (violet godspren) based investiture in the gemhearts of Singers is a hacked system and therefore the violet light based investiture IS NOT of Odium. If this is true, this would also explain why the Fused use violet light investiture so cavalierly, if they can convert the gemheart of their host into violet light investiture, they could use this perpetually until the gemheart was consumed. This would kill their current host, but they would just fuse a different host when the next Everstorm passes. I don't think that the Everstorm functions as distribution system for violet light investiture, I think rather it is a conduit from the Cognitive realm on Braize to Roshar to allow the Singers to bond either Voidspren or the Cognitive Shadows of ancient Singers. SPECULATIVE THEORIES BASED ON THE ABOVE: I speculated in the [OB] Third Bondsmith and Urithiru thread that Ba-Ado-Mishram might be the third godspren, and might be the Sibling that the Stormfather talks about in OB: The formulation is a little looser than this post, but I think the theory is actually quite sound. Especially looking at the Voidbinding chart, where one of the god's eyes order might be instrumental in controlling BAM to distribute non-destructive violet light to the armies of Odium. The other god's eye order of Voidbinder is likely Odium's Champion (with such a strong connection to Odium, it would be highly probable that this particular Voidbinder could channel and direct Odium's actual investiture and possibly convert gemhearts in the followers of Odium to violet investiture. It might have been one of the responsibilites of the 3rd bondsmith, keeping BAM from going over to the side of Odium and being bonded by a Voidbinder. Melishi might have made the determination after BAM was Unmade that it was safer to seal the Sibling away in a perfect gem prison than to try and fix BAM so that BAM could again be used to power Urithiru. I think we haven't really seen what Odium's investiture is capable of. I think we have seen it being used inefficiently to hack a separate magic system (that predates the shattering of Adonalsium) and that we really won't know what true voidbinding is until the Army that emerges from the Origin with light in pockets (mentioned in the Puuli interlude) arrives. @Wit Beyond Measure, @Varion, @MonsterMetroid put some really good work in building up evidence that Thuderclasts are formed by mindless fused bonding gemhearts embedded in stone in the [OB] Secrets to Parshendi Forms, Thunderclasts, & Urithiru thread. If the theory that violet light investiture is created by conversion of gemhearts to energy, then I think that this is one more point in favor of the Thunderclast theory. I also think that the gemstone that Eshonai got from Gavilar contained the unmade Sja-anat. We know from revelations at the end of WoR that Venli and her fellow scholar form listeners had all tried out stormform before Eshonai did, and the red color of the spren implies corrupted investiture. My guess is that Venli got the sphere from Eshonai and released Sja-anat, and Sja-anat created voidspren by corrupting windspren that allowed the Parshendi to assume stormform. There were a lot of Listeners that assumed storm form, and we know that windspren are plentiful, and before I was always wondering how they found so many of these stormform spren around the shattered plains and why they hadn't bonded them before. But thinking along the lines of this theory it's obvious, the corrupted windspren allowed the listeners to create the Everstorm, which acts like a functional bridge between Braize and Roshar. The reason no listener used violet light investiture before the Fused arrived is because it consumes the gemheart of the host. A cognitive shadow joined to a host wouldn't die as their gemhearts were slowly consumed, but a non-fused Parshendi probably wouldn't last long converting their heart into investiture. Another point in favor of this theory is that Renarin bonded a corrupted truthwatcher spren at the shattered plains, which wouldn't have been possible if Sja-anat wasn't also at the shattered plains. **************************************************************************** POTENTIAL PROBLEMS WITH THIS THEORY **************************************************************************** Thanks to @Darvys, @RShara, @Wit Beyond Measure and especially @StrikerEZ I know that some of the foundational principles of this theory have proven to be just plain wrong. This is the place that I will use to highlight all of the erroneous assumptions, and highlight compelling counter arguments to the main premises of the theory. As @StrikerEZ and @Darvys pointed out, reading too much into the significance of color is problematic, and it leads to oversimplifications that confuse the issue. The theory really hinges on the fact that the color associated with the shards is a compelling causal link, but Stormlight is NOT blue, it is in fact white. We haven't really seen enough of Cultivation to associate anything with her Investiture (other than an ability to manipulate the spirit web/minds of people who specifically sought her out) and Voidspren are not just yellow-gold, Ulim who helps Venli find Eshonai's corpse in the Part 1 interlude is a Red spren. *EDIT* Most of the apparent problems with this theory had to do with the colors not corresponding correctly, but the assumptions of color matching the 3 different types of Investiture on Roshar holds, after this WoB (spoilered below with emphasis added) that explicitly states that Odium is associated with Red/Gold, Honor is Associated with Blue/White and Cultivation is associated with Green. The obvious color missing is the Violet, like the violet moon Selas and the black-violet antiglow of Voidlight. Also there's a WoB that implies pretty strongly that no Spren is completely derivative of a single shard, but is more a proportional mixture of different Shardic investiture, so inferences based on the coloration of spren are most likely more complicated than stated in the OP, and don't prove a causal connection: *EDIT* This really has no bearing on the matter upon further reflection. As @StrikerEZ pointed out, Voidlight looks to be the proper term to use to refer to violet investiture. There is a reference in the Gem Archive that states that Ba-Ado-Mishram was able to provide Voidlight to Odium's followers: *EDIT* This is not really a salient issue, Voidlight is the proper term. Gemhearts are most likely not consumed in order to provide voidlight, but there is a WoB that they are physically manifest Investiture: *EDIT* This still remains to be seen, the examples of Yelig-nar consuming his host and the Fused Taking over the body of their host provide countervailing arguements that this might indeed be true, that Gemhearts can be consumed to produce Voidlight in the absence of an alternate source of Voidlight. It's more likely that gemhearts are created from Investiture "leaking" from all the Invested shards on Roshar (given the fact that gems of all different types exist on Roshar and that they are keyed to different fabrials and correspond to the 10 essences in relation to soulcasting). This doesn't preclude the fact that there could be another loose source of Investiture on the Rosharan system, but it makes it less likely that gemhearts are solely composed a single type of Investiture. *EDIT* I No longer agree with this statement. I think they are a particular expression of the 3rd flavor of Investiture on Roshar, I will link to my BAM theory when I've posted it. I still think the Voidbinding chart is information rich and worth scrutinizing. It still feels like there is something hiding in plain sight, something revelatory and amazing. If anyone has anything else to add to this Mia Culpa disclaimer, please let me know. Wild speculation is fun, but good information is better.

I've been thinking a lot about Singer forms, fabrials, and the future of Rosharan technology. I believe that fabrial technology has the potential to alter the physical aspect through manipulation of the spritweb, much like hemalurgy. When it comes down to it, Koloss, Kandra and Singer forms are exactly the same thing. Beings whose spiritwebs have a piece of investiture artificially grafted to it. The extra piece of investiture alters the spiritweb, and as a result, a different physical and cognitive form is expressed. Using hemalurgy to alter the physical is messy, and extremely difficult. The only examples we have are Koloss and Kandra (and to a degree Inquisitors), created through the knowledge of Ascension along with whispers from Ruin, and the Chimeras, that were probably created with the help of some very knowledgeable foreign entity. Even in the thousand years after his Ascension Rashek wasn't able to create any new servants through hemalurgy. But on Roshar the process is facilitated through the spren, convenient and plentiful packages of investiture, and a singular grafting point to the spiritweb, the gemheart. So the idea is, that eventually someone figures out how to attach a fabrial to someone's soul, maybe in an attempt to grant powers permanently without the fickle Nahel bond. Whether or not that actually works is up in the air, but I'm certain it would have ramifications on their physical form. The main difference to creating hemalurgic creatures here is that the artificial gemhearts would probably only slightly alter a normal blueprint of the physical, like we see with the Singer forms. So I think just how Singers build up their physical and cognitive aspects through the spren bonds, humans could likewise change their aspects, with a lot of potential, not only in the physical realm. The best thing is, that we already have an example of a human grafting a spren to their soul with their physical form being altered as a result. Yelig-nar is a piece of investiture tied to a grafting point that anyone can use. The primary purpose is to grant the ten surges to whoever 'bonds' Yelig-nar, but what's really interesting is what happens to the wielder's body. There's a huge change, most internal organs being replaced by a cavity holding the gem, and crystals growing from the skin. The first time reading OB I assumed it was mostly something added to look cool, to add some visuals to the climax of the book. But Amaram's body changing so dramatically makes a lot of sense. His soul was just drastically altered, that should have ramifications in the physical realm. How Yelig-nar's gemstone allows for an anchor point to someone's soul is a mystery to me, just as why gemhearts appear to be a physical slot inducing change in the spiritual realm in the first place. What's truly fascinating about all this though is that the key point to physically transforming is the gemheart. We have plenty of examples of spren bonds that don't result in dramatic transformations. Both Surgebinders and the Sadeas soldiers in Thaylen City are in a spren bond whose only physical expression is the color of their eyes. So what lets gemhearts facilitate physical transformations? I'm not certain, but I'm think the transformation aspect is a key part of Roshar's investiture based ecosystem. We know that greatshells rely on Mandras to reduce the effects of gravity on their bodies to survive. In addition, I think that most creatures with gemhearts need them not only for the powers they may grant, but also to help in the natural transformations between various lifestages. There's a reason chasmfiends pupate during highstorms. Fabrial tech is an extension of what we see in Roshar's nature. I think with enough realmatic knowledge someone could figure out how to copy nature and apply it to humans. The Singer forms and other applications of the gemheart in nature are probably far more elegant than what humans could create in the near future, but with enough tinkering who knows what could happen. Maybe some of this could be applied to animals as well. Think horses with carapace or faster, more powerful chull. Some thoughts to end on, I have no idea how a fabrial could be attached to a person's soul. The best I can come up with is that someone who can access the spiritweb, like the Nightwatcher or Sja-anat, if what they do even touches the spiritweb, would have to help in the process. I doubt you could do it from the Cognitive Realm, but who knows. I'm also uncertain how spiritual changes directly affect the physical. On Roshar, most lifeforms seem to use stormlight to power their transformations during highstorms. On Scadrial, spiritual changes seem to express a change without the help of additional investiture. I hope most of this was coherent enough to make a little sense. I think Roshar's ecosystem is beautifully imagined, and I love how intricate and mysterious is still is. There's a lot we don't know, but with a magitech society on the rise in Roshar's future, I'm certain we'll see great things.

So we got confirmation that humans came to Roshar because of a major disaster on their "original" world and that the big secret was that they had destroyed their own planet with surgebinding. This is interesting and has many implications, it will probably take a while to shift through all of them (the book has been out for like 2 days at the time of writing this post haha) but I would like to discuss two theories I had just considering the basics within the context of the Cosmere as we know it. 1. The "Tranquiline Halls" is Ashyn So with the confirmation in text that humans are not native to Roshar, something that has been more or less confirmed through various WoBs over the years so isn't groundbreaking news, we start to wonder where they came from. We know that they arrived as refugees fleeing the devastation of their original home, so the initial group must have come from the same world. I posit that that world is Ashyn, the planet right next to Roshar that we know is a blasted wasteland save a few pockets where humans survive. And that it got that way because as Khriss mentions in her essay on Greater Roshar in AU: it "suffered a cataclysm long ago". It makes logistical sense, a massive number of refuges that would be produced by a global disaster would most likely want to settle in the place that was both safe and as close as possible to limit how long they were displaced. Even with the distance warping of the Cognitive why trek halfway across the galaxy with probably nothing but the clothes on your back when you can find shelter the next planet over? Then there is this Death Rattle from WoK that most people have, again, guessed for years refers in someway to the humans initially displacing the native Parsh: The last sentence is of specific import in this case. The place that is "hollow and forlorn" might refer the Braize, where the cognitive shadows of the genocided Dawnsingers that would later become the Fused were locked up. But the part where the speaker (presumably a human "Voidbringer") claiming that they themselves once burned is probably a reference to the disaster that destroyed their homeworld. And guess what? Back in that essay in Arcanum Unbound Khriss names Ashlyn "the burning planet". Other possibilities for the identity of the Tranquiline Halls would be either 1) Yolen or 2) a yet unnamed planet. I find Yolen unlikely because the chronology seems to indicate a big time lapse before whatever happened to Yolen (assuming it happened in close proximity to the Shattering and the Birth of the 16) and the human refugees showing up with Odium as their god. For one we know he was off chasing Ambition in the space around Therody, and also took time to go murder the Selish shards. Assuming the conflict between Odium and Honor started soon after his arrival in Roshar and hasn't abated since he would have taken an unbelievably short time to accomplish his prior goals. Not to mention that whatever happened to Yolen had nothing to do with surgebinding, but that is not that big of a deal breaker as I will explain shortly. As for a yet unknown world? Well I can't find evidence for or against something we don't know exists now can I? So we should really have someone ask Brandon if the Tranquiline Halls are a world we already know about during the OB tour. 2. The Tranquilline Halls were destroyed, but probably not by surgebinding as we know it So this being the big secret behind the Recreance confused me. I understand how the characters in universe might come to this conclusion but it makes little sense for the Cosmerically aware. Obviously something big *did* happen to the homeland of the humans to make them refugees and this being the Cosmere that thing most likely related to usage of Investiture. But we know that, while a magic user can use their magic anywhere given the right resources, initiation into a magic system requires Connection to a certain Shard and/or a certain planet. As surgebinding as we understand it is a system created by bonding a spren of Honor/Cultivation that has learned to mimic the blades Honor forged from his own soul to give the heralds. And he gave those blades to the heralds to enforce the oathpact. So as we know that H+C came to Roshar before Odium and now know that Odium came with the human refugees. It seems incongruous to believe that surgebinders in the mold of the KR existed and destroyed the Tranquiline Halls BEFORE the humans came to Roshar with Odium, who started a fight with Honor, who then forged an Oathpact with 10 humans, which splinters of H+C's power then copied to create surgebinders. Furthermore in WoR Honor in the visions tells Dalinar he "didn't foresee the coming of the Knights" and confirms Syl's comments about the spren mimicking the Honorblades to produce the surges. But if surgebinders already existed and were the reason the Tranquiline Halls were destroyed, why would the coming of surgbinders surprise Honor? But what if surgebinding existed in a different form and Honor was just surprised to see the spren recreate it? Well then I maintain that you can't assume spren-based surgbinding will have the same result (planetary devastation) as whatever was used back home. Its like Hoid's Lightweaving vrs. Shallan's. Even if the effects are similar or even identical, the mechanics are markedly different. And we haven't considered the Dawnshards which in OB Honor claimed destroyed the Tranquilline Halls as he was in his death throes. So whatever wrecked the homeland of Roshar's humans was not surgbinding (again at least not as we know it) and so the truth behind the Recrence seems to be a tragic misunderstanding by the people involved possibly conflating two different magic systems from two different planets, probably.

Rennid slept fitfully that night. Visions of Koralis’ wrath when he’d heard about the killing of Chocolarzin kept him in a constant state of fear, and nervous enough that he kept one of his gun under his pillow for security. Plus another two under his blanket. And his extra powder keg handy in case he needed to reload. Sadly, that would be his undoing. A shadow briefly darkened his door and tossed in a small burning candle before disappearing into the market outside. It landed with a soft thud next to the keg, just loud enough to wake Rennid and cause him to look towards the keg, eyes opening wide in fear and realization. Pieces of him were still being found hours later. Walin has died! They were a Black Market Arms Dealer! Player List: This cycle will run through 8PM EST Jan 1, 2018, unless I receive at least 8 votes in favor of extending it. New Year’s Eve is when most people will be up late, so it shouldn’t matter. Timer will be added later since I’m on mobile.

I believe these three are linked and refer directly to a pivotal event in Taravangian's future. I present them here not in the order in which they were recorded, but in the ordrr in which I think the future events will play out. Note that the last one recorded was said directly to Taravangian. — Collected on Shashanan 1173, 23 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed youth of sixteen years. Sample is of particular note.[24] — Observed circa Ishi 1173 by Taravangian. Subject was King Valam of Jah Keved.[4] — Collected on Tanatesev 1171, 30 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a cobbler of some renown I think these show three critical, and sequential moments in Taravangian's future. It appears to predict that Taravangian's bargain with Odium to save his city and its people will hinge on killing a baby, or not. The first rattle lays out the choice: kill this baby and give his people "further breath to draw." I think it particularly noteworthy that this rattle is considered "of particular note" by the Silent Gatherers. It's possible that the Diagram helped them recognise this as referring to Taravangian. The second rattle predicts the moment if choice for Taravangian. And it seems that his compassion will win out. A big boost to all those theorists who think the most important part of Taravangian's boon from Cultivation was his compassion, not his intelligence. It's interesting that this rattle was spoken directly to Taravangian. Did he recognise it for what it was? Is it to be trusted? Is it some sort of psych out by Moeloch? And the third one shows the result of the choice. The fall of Kharbranth. The child crying in the background confirms that he spared its life, while Taravangian's tears tell us that this all happened on a compassionate day. Clearly, if my theory here is accurate, then most of the details are unknown to us yet. We don't know who the child is yet. We don't know why Taravangian has been asked to kill it, although it seems safe to assume that it was Odium making the demand. We don't even know if the child is important in their own right, or whether it's more of a symbolic sacrifice. I'll be paying close attention to any new born children in the next book though ...

Preface: Someone correct me if I'm breaking any rules here, as I just made my account a couple hours ago. I posted this theory on a King T discussion thread, but I'm thinking that it was a little off topic since that discussion was about T as a character and this is a theory about the Diagram. So pardon my ignorance if this is a breach of etiquette! Theory: The Diagram is Fake I think the Diagram itself is part of the subterfuge. As others have pointed out, the original concept of "make a deal to protect my kingdom, then become king of everything" is so simple, that I believe Odium was meant to see through it. In order for the bluff to work though, you have to make it look like you're trying, hence the takeover of JKeved. If T was so brilliant when he made the Diagram, then it stands to reason that he was smart enough to realize that Odium would be able to read/interpret it. That is the entire point. It is a classic misdirection, just on a grand scale. It's all meant to bait Odium into certain actions, presumably to put Him in a position to be vulnerable. It also stands to reason that genius T knew that Odium would never negotiate on one of T's smart days. So why put in the "negotiate from a position of strength" line? It's part of the misdirection. If Odium is confident that T and the Diagram are not a threat, then He is much more likely to let his guard down. T is playing the Severus Snape role. We are going to hate him for a long time and he is going to do some awful things. In the end though, it will be his actions that ultimately make Odium vulnerable to be defeated by someone else. Basically, I just don't accept the narrative of "Odium saw through the Diagram, therefore it is moot and T is now a traitor." Genius T knew that would happen and planned for it

This exactly. We really need to keep our definitions in line with the cannon usage, or these discussions will just keep going in circles. Here's my (very) quick stab at defining these terms: Corrupted: a spren or human or parshendi who has suffered some permanent (possibly reversible) alteration to one or more of their physical, cognitive or spiritual aspects, as a result of direct magical interference, in order to fundamentally change and/or control them in some way counter to their natural state. Influenced: a spren or human or parshendi who has had some pre-existing feature of their physical and/or cognitive and/or spiritual aspects dulled or enhanced through direct magical interference in order to alter their behaviour and decisions in a way that favourable to an external agent. The primary changes will only occur as long as the magical interference acts upon them, although the resulting actions may cause secondary physical and psychologic effects, which may be long lasting or permanent. Manipulated: a spren, human or parshendi who has had their beliefs, behaviours, decisions, actions and psychological state altered through indirect magical and non-magical methods in order to favour some external agent. The effects may be immediate, short term, long-term or permanent. And again for the record, I don't believe Shallan has been corrupted in any way. She has definitely felt the influence of multiple Unmade, although I would argue that she has so far been able to resist these influences. And it's still uo in the air as to whether Sja-anat is trying to manipulate her, or whether she is sincere about wanting to defect from Odium.

Kinetic Investure creates a waveform, as seen in Mistborn with Allomantic bronze. Since Lightweaving is the manipulation of waveforms, and for the illusions to work they need to be hard to see through, it makes sense that lightweavers would instinctively (or perhaps the magic does it automatically) use their lightweaving as a way of mimicking Allomantic copper. I think that if Shallan knew the mechanics behind it, she could theoretically use it to hide other peoples Investure usage too.

My theory is that it's because Shallan is one oath ahead of Kaladin. It influences the efficiency of stormlight use, so maybe it reduces leaks that can be spotted or something like this.

By the way, in the Kaladin album by The Black Piper there's a bonus song called 'Shallan's lullaby'

I don't understand why it is acceptable for the middle book to be disappointing. The middle book can be darker, end badly, have less resolution and closure, but there are no excuses for several weaknesses some readers have noted into the narrative. For instance, it does not matter if Shallan's character arc got closure or not, what matters if was it an interesting character arc to read? If not, then why? It does not matter if Kaladin did not say his fourth oath, what matters is was his chapters engaging and interesting to read or not? It does not matter if Adolin is not punished, what matters is his character coherent from beginning to end and is he getting development to make him appear less than perfect? Are we reading ending WoR with Sadeas's murder was the right choice or the wrong approach? It does not matter whatever Dalinar does, was reading his chapters actually interesting or were they a drag? The middle book doesn't have to be disappointing nor is it OK for a book to be disappointing because there are two more to close the saga. Books are read for enjoyment, for pleasure, for escapism, for fun. Was Oathbringer a satisfying book? Not really because it didn't really brought to the table the narrative elements which would have make it satisfying, it also isn't coherent enough from start to end, it does not flow as nicely as the previous books, it drags too often and it has too many minor viewpoints which clogs the narrative. The characters arcs it had to propose weren't, for the most part, engaging and a lot was badly explored or superficial. I say there are no reason which makes a disappointing book acceptable: if it is disappointing, then it is disappointing, be it the middle, the first or the last book.

I worked up the courage to give my phone number to that girl at work yesterday. I was probably awkward as heck, but she texted me so that's good

Me as a TSA agent: "Are you a terrorist? ...because that book is the BOMB!"

What about Spirtual Division. It would break on all three realms (like our favorite homicidal sword) which would be legit. Can you imagine seeing szeth “destroying evil” with Division and Nightblood.

Woohoo! Thank you, all. Through your amazing insights and analysis and related ideas, as well as a quote in another thread, I've found my answer to the question that spawned the discussion. This certainly may not be your answer, and my answer may even change, but I feel like it is a decent theory, at least. So.... Shallan: Simply Psycho or Seriously Corrupted? Yes. Say what? Yes, Shallan is simply psycho, as @insert_anagram_here brilliantly shows. We should never have expected otherwise, really, of this ferocious child killer posing successfully as a precocious, naive babe. She killed her mama and her mama's lover in what must have been a violent and bloody struggle for survival. And then Daddy sang her a little lullaby and it was all better. (Umm, not.) And then she strangled Daddy with the pretty little necklace he bought her while singing him back that same sweet lullaby, putting him to sleep. Forever. And then Pattern tells her over and over and over that she has to confess and own her truths. This is really Psych 101 since denial is the first or second stage of grief. You can never get over something and heal if you don't admit it happened in the first place. Shallan pointedly ignores Pattern's pleas. And so the wounds fester. And fester. And fester. Wit tells her that Shallan must make her own self stronger in order to overcome her personality fragmentation. Shallan builds these fake personalities on top of herself like some inverted cheerleading pyramid with only her true self at the bottom, supporting all of the fake Shallan's. Instead of following Wit's advice to strengthen her true self, though, she opts to strengthen the top of the pyramid instead, with the bottom support of the entire pyramid remaining terribly weak. Of course it will all come tumbling down! D'uh. This is Physics 101. And yet, is that the end of the story? Yes, Shallan is also seriously corrupted. In much the same way that Nan Balat's sociopathy is magically enhanced by certain forces, plural, we see Shallan's psychopathy being magically enhanced by forces, as well, at least IMO. Yes, we can start to see the cracks in Shallan in WoK and WoR, and we suspect that they will be growing. However, Shallan's decline unexpectedly accelerates (slip-sliding faster than Lift in a buffet line) during the tower scenes when influenced by the Midnight Mother, and again in Kholinar in the presence of three Unmade, and again during the Thaylen City battle with multiple Unmade. These three points seem to be, by far, Shallan at her weakest. Is this timing a coincidence? I think not. Several or even all Unmade could be corrupting Shallan, not just Sja-anat. Sja-anat will still be terribly special to Shallan, though, for all of the magnificently articulated reasons @hoiditthroughthegrapevine gives, but she is not the only corrupting influence, it seems.

I thought it was pretty clear that it was Yelig-nar:

Pretty sure Venli is a willshaper, and their spren are the Reachers (Ico and his crew).

Just to try and put this to rest. OB spoilers, as we're not in the spoiler board.

You know that every Rosharan would set their telerials to the right channel when it was time for this show to come on air: The Odd Couple + Sword Setup: Refuges flood into Urithiru from all over Alethkhar, Herdaz, Emul, and Iri. Suddenly space is limited, Radiants who once had a room all to themselves now must live together. Due to the housing shortage Szeth, Lift and sword-Nimi are forced to live in the same apartment. Hilarity ensues. CUE THE MUSIC: EPISODE 1: Ground rules Setting: Interior of Lift's, Szeth's and Sword-Nimi's apartment. One side is barren, immaculately swept and has only one small square pillow and a pot with shinovar grass in it. The other side of the apartment is a sprawling mess, dirty dishes, half eaten chicken legs, old dirty curry bowls and dirty clothes wadded up and strewn over every flat surface. Szeth, sleeping cross legged on the square pillow, with nightblood strapped to his back, awakens and looks across the room at Lift's small form, hanging half way off the bed, snoring loudly with a half eaten roll clutched in one hand. SZETH: The young Radiant's burdens are light, she sleeps well sword-nimi. NB: Well, if you mean how loud she is, then Vasher slept even better. He sounded like 10 boulders rolling down a hill. (Laughtrack) (Lift wakes up, eats the half eaten roll in one gulp and then begins to scratch her backside with her shard-backscratcher.) (Laughtrack) SZETH: Ah, good you are awake. We can discuss the rules we will observe in our shared habitation. We must establish the bounds and determine the precepts of ordering our common living space. NB: Ah, the dirt and grime, all those dirty dishes. Let's destroy them Szeth, they look evil. LIFT: I've got a starvin' rule for you, stick to your side of the room and don't worry about my side. SZETH: I was thinking we could start with some common agreements about the cleanliness of our– (Szeth stops speaking mid-sentence as he is hit in the head with a half eaten chicken leg) LIFT: There, I just cleaned my side up some. Do you want me to clean some more Crazy face? (Laughtrack) NB: Oooh, she's so deevy (Laughtrack) SZETH: These are wise words, balance can only be maintained if– (Szeth is once again pelted, this time by a half full curry bowl. Curry drips off of his face and spills onto his formerly white robes) LIFT: Try balancing that on your face. Hey look, my side of the room just keeps getting cleaner and cleaner. I think if you keep talking like this I'll have my side clean in no time. (Laughtrack) NB: I told you Szeth, we should have slain those dishes, then they wouldn't have been able to attack your face like that. SZETH: I am a skybreaker of the 3rd Ideal, the surge of Division is mine to command. Perhaps instead of hitting me with rotting foodstuffs, I could assist you in the cleansing of your side by– (Lift throws another chicken leg at Szeth's head, but bursting with stormlight, Szeth raises his hand and applies a triple lashing to the chicken leg so that it goes speeding back towards Lift, who catches it in her mouth) SZETH: You will please let me finish, young Radiant. LIFT: (Talking around a mouth full of chicken) Sure thing crazy face, as long as you let me finish eating my starvin' breakfast. (Laughtrack) NB: Oooh, that was pretty deevy of you Szeth SZETH: I could use my surge of division to cleanse your side of the room of the accumulated filth and dirt, so that we could have a clean living space. LIFT: See now, I think you're missing the whole point. You clean up the room, sure, but then what happens? It gets dirty again. What's the point? Besides do you know how far away the kitchen is from here? Where am I going to put my food if I can't just leave it laying around. SZETH: You could requisition a larder or a hamper of some kind. LIFT: Yeah, a larder good that would do me. (Laughtrack) LIFT: I'd have to put my food into the larder and take it out of the larder, sounds ineffecient, and would probably make me real hungry doing all that, so I'd need to get more food. Then I'd probably need to get more larders and more hampers, so many that our whole starvin' room would be filled with larders and hampers. Wait a sec, look at our room, it kind of looks like the inside of a larder right now. (Laughtrack) NB: She has a point Szeth, it does look like a Larder. (Szeth stands up, robes and face dripping oily brown curry onto his clean floor, then walks over to the center of the room and places his hand on the floor. From his hand a brilliant orange line of light streaks across the floor, creating a scorched black line dividing the room in half). SZETH: You are wise. The room has been divided. Obey the simple precept that you shall not interfere on my side of the Room and I will not go on a Crusade to cleanse your side of the Room. (Nervous Laughter???) NB: Hey, what about my side of the room? SZETH: Shut-it sword-nimi. CUE END CREDITS. If you like episode one, feel free to write another episode of what is sure to be the most popular sit-com on all of Roshar.

Hahahaha! I have made my first capture! You are now one of us. Welcome to guild! Have spike! And a cookie!

@hoiditthroughthegrapevine I haven't seen it mentioned much on the forums, but through discord I know there's a good chunk of us who believe that the Fused aren't Voidbinding. Their surges function in fundamentally the same way as they do for Radiants, and the change to the radial symmetry of the surge glyphs on the Voidbinding seems to imply that the surge functions differently (obviously this is all speculation). So I, and a at least a few others, think that the Fused are just surgebinding with a hack to fuel the surges via Voidlight. By this logic, the only voidbinding that we have seen thus far is Renarin's use of the Voidbinding version of illumination for his foresight. Just throwing out something else to think about. I disagree with your premise, primarily because of this epigraph. BAM provides Voidlight, as Odium once did. I believe with an active Desolation, and Odium on Roshar, Odium is directly providing the Voidlight to fuel his minions.

Hellooooo? *shout echoes down the scary dark alley* Is this where I can get a cookie? @Farnsworthtold me I could get a cookie here. I have a feeling this is a trap! Also, hi

After reading Dalinar’s interludes

Explaining the Coalition to Dalinar

Ahem. I'm going to just drop this right here... BEHOLD, THE POWER OF STORMCUTE.

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/63776-ob-dalinar-should-wield-nightblood/ So yeah, Szeth should do exactly as you say and use his own spren. ...And pass Nightblood on to the guy who's spren refuses to act as a shardblade: Dalinar. Whom Szeth has already sworn to follow anyway. And who (as the original poster in that thread pointed out) is able to summon functionally infinite stormlight to power Nightblood any time he wants.

My guess would be that Recreance happened right after the Listener Voidbringers were defeated, and sent into slave form. The KR knew that without a common enemy to unite them their conflicting ideals would lead them to fight each other. Which might be as bad as a new Desolation. They also killed their spren on purpose so that spren would not want to bond with humans. Stopping any new surgebinder from appearing.