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Something strange is going on with Nohadon. I trust Dalinar when he says that it's a vision and it's unlike the rest. Nohadon, inside that vision, speaks to Dalinar with familiarity, and directly addressed the manifestation of the thunderclast. The Stormfather also says that Dalinar was shown all the visions of Nohadon. And yet, in the vision, Nohadon addresses Dalinar directly: This is something that has not happened before. This is also the first time we see the question "what is the most important step a man can take," which will have great significance later on. Before I go any further, I want to extend some thank yous to the folks who beat into my head the possibility of this being a thing over on this thread. It took a lot of hard convincing but they finally won me over, so thanks for sticking with it everyone, especially @hoser and @Paragrin So the essence of that thread was trying to figure out who Odium was referencing when Dalinar Ascended and he said "No, we killed you." While I'm supposing that person is Nohadon, I don't want to get into that discussion per se, but rather, the proofs behind whether it's possible and what people think about him on a broader level, as a quick search didn't show a Nohadon topic. To boil things down, I think that Nohadon was a Bondsmith, and he was bonded to the Sibling. I think that after he died, he bound his cognitive shadow to the spren in a similar way to what Honor did, preserving him for the future and allowing him to connect with Dalinar. There is some textual evidence to support this theory. First off, of any order, the Bondsmiths would be the ones who would be able to accomplish something like this. The Way of Kings is also very much about unifying people. It's the book that inspired Dalinar to become a Bondsmith. Nohadon exhibits those traits of uniting instead of dividing. But let's continue on past this point. The evidence is not hard, but plausible, that Nohadon could both be a Bondsmith and accomplish such a task. We know there are only three Bondsmiths. In Oathbringer, we learned a few more things. So one Bondsmith that generation. They fear it's because Honor is changing. I put forth that it because this is when Honor intentionally splintered himself into the Stormfather. I say this because we know that Dalinar is the first to bond the Stormfather since the change. This means we can infer they had been previously bonding the Stormfather and one other spren since they were aware of their concerns with Honor. We have this information from an Elsecaller, saying that one Sibling had withdrawn. I put forth that this Sibling was bonded to Nohadon, and she discovered that Nohadon had preserved his cognitive shadow inside of it. Paragrin has solid evidence that with Connection, you can interact with people from the spiritual realm, even without it having a direct influence on the way the text formatting is displayed, or the internal voice is distinguished in the character's mind. I'm still going through my reread, but, in the chapter 'Bondsmith,' I found another little piece that made me think Nohadon was nudging Dalinar along. Dalinar has his reaction, the Stormfather rumbles around, as he is want to do, and then there is a disappointment beyond that. Which is what I am putting forth to be Nohadon's Cognitive Shadow bonded to a spren, using Connection to interact with Dalinar. He does this again later, answering the question he gave Dalinar earlier as Dalinar struggles for meaning against the pain of his past and questions the answer he came to so easily. On a more personal note, the way Brandon answers this question makes me feel like he wanted to see if they had picked up on some foreshadowing he had put into place, but I haven't scrutinized WoK or WoR, and this is from when WoR was published. He's reacting similarly to the when I asked about Helaran not being bonded to a spren during the WoR signing. So, brief wrap up, plausible evidence that it could be possible using a Bondsmith's power, Nohadon displays the right temperament to be a Bondsmith, Nohadon interacts with Dalinar in a way that could not be a vision and Dalinar recognizes to not be a dream, we have evidence that using Connection a character can interact with another in a way that doesn't alter book script, and the italics during Dalinar's Ascension pick up right where they left off conversing in the dream, where Nohadon answers the question he posed to Dalinar.

That was so much fun! @Overlord Jebus was the queue from noon till 3, when he was joined by @Aurimus_ and me. We met later with @Megasif, @Yata, SirCodey, @rjl and @Inkayaku. We do have a full recording!! The employee didn't let us leave phones but he let me leave my recorder. I'll upload it when I get home. Brandon saw us first, and last! He was jetlagged when he started and had more energy at the end of the signing. The store employee was bamboozled that we'd record the whole thing and ask so many questions, haha. We were booted from the store at closing time, so we just grabbed some snacks and got back at the back of the line. When we got to the very end Brandon had to sign the store's stock and had enough time to give us a Sharder Q&A. We've met lovely cosmere fans in the store and queue, including--maybe they'll read this and recognize themselves--our good company from the front of the line (hey @kalamitous_emoashions), who asked cool questions including why Odium is referred to as the broken one, which got an interesting answer, an adorable Renarin cosplay, and two ladies whom we think were mother and daughter (I wish my mom was a cosmere fan) and were so eager and fun. Some interesting questions have been asked; this will all come out in the 4-hour recording that I'll upload when I get home, but I'll give this in advance... (Oathbringer spoilers) And finally, the Sharder Q&A's bombshell that made it all worth it: The non-paraphrased transcript might shed more light on this.

Just got back from the signing, and I now have enough blood flow to my fingers to type again. I was able to ask a few questions, hope you all enjoy the answers; he congratulated me for not getting RAFO'd, so I hope you all find these useful. Unfortunately I just know I'm going to think of half a dozen questions tomorrow when I can't ask them.

I am rereading Mistborn right now, and I got to this passage, where Vin burns one of Sazed's metalminds: I don't think we've fully grappled with what this means - using unkeyed metalminds, any Allomancer will be able to compound. That DRAMATICALLY increases the power of Mistings, provided they have access to unkeyed metalminds. Every gold Misting can compound healing, every steel Misting can compound speed, etc. Another important impact here is that it makes Allomancy a team sport. A Misting with the support of a powerful organization (perhaps the Set) would have a huge advantage over a Misting trying to operate on their own. It also makes previously useless Mistings useful all of a sudden, provided they can get the metalminds.

So, @PhineasGage summed it up perfectly. However, I would just like to chime in. Long story short, I HAD OSDD type 1b. It was painful. Unpleasant. Reintegration was hell. This hurts. I have confirmation that Sanderson meant what he wrote. And it hurts. Any time I pick up a Sanderson book now, it will be with shame. The shame of an addict who is willing to betray his principles because he needs more. Because this ruined the cosmere for me. I do not mean to disparage anyone who loves it. I am in the minority here, and I know that. But this hurts. So much. It feels like one of the people I greatly admire, and hold high as a master craftsman has just kicked me in the gut and told me that I am worthless. Many will see this as an overreaction. That is your right. I am just being honest. It hurt me, enough to make me cry. Enough to make me remember every time I was bullied or otherwise treated as inferior due to who I am. Am I wrong to think a book shouldn't make someone feel that way?

Ok, so I am really rather confused. I hate being confused so I'm getting a bit angry. As a result, be warned I may meltdown slightly on this post. On the plus side, it might be entertaining to watch. It's long. Really long - not full of quotes tho so it doesn't look as long - but there are more of my own thoughts than usual so it may be a bit much for some. TL:DR - i'm annoyed because reasons. If you care that much - read them Ok, so here is the thing. Shallan's arc through OB reads like a very good depiction of a disorder called OSDD (Other specified dissociative disorder) which is a cluster of symptoms that resemble dissociative identity disorder (DID), which used to be called 'multiple personality disorder', but don't quite meet the criteria for DID. This website (http://did-research.org/comorbid/dd/osdd_udd/did_osdd.html) gives a good run down for those of you wanting more info, but I'll just quickly summarise it here. Note that there may be some oversimplifications for clarity but the gist will be ok. People with all forms of dissociative identity disorders (including OSDD) suffer from a situation where they wall off sections of their personality from one another in one way or another. These are often called "alts" in common parlance. The amount of variance between the alts can be quite wide depending on which bits are sectioned off from each other, but it doesn't have to be that different. Sometimes alts are separated by how old they identify as being for example so the learned responses are different, but the appearance of the personality might not shift that much to an outsider. It's cause is rooted in early childhood when the building blocks of the personality are formed but still subject to change by the environment. The learned responses are essentially imprinted on the core personality at this stage and this helps solidify the core personality as a whole, rather than individual "chunks". Lack of attachment to parent figures (eg though abuse, neglect, being removed from the home, prolonged hospitalisation) means that the core personality not only isn't as solid as it might be, but that the learned responses added to it are often a problem. For example, a child in a neglectful home may not be taught a wide variety of coping mechanisms. We need a wide variety of resources available to us because you never know what is round the corner. For any one of the DID/OSDD disorders to be diagnosed, there have to be distinct identities formed. This is not a mood shift. It is not a dissociation like freezing or going numb (though those often coexist in the disorder). It is specifically that a person shifts from one identity to another and as such their thought and behaviour patterns shift accordingly. DID requires that there is amnesia between the alts. For example, if Fred has DID and has 2 alts, "Fred" and "George", then "Fred" remembers his life and everything he did but says he blackout and loses time and has no knowledge of "George". "George" says the same thing and has no knowledge of "Fred". OSDD is a mixed bag of related disorders that each don't quite meet the DID requirements for different reasons. Shallan most resembles "OSDD type 1b." Here's the quote about how it works: "... individuals with OSDD-1b might experience their alters more as different versions of themselves, though they're more likely to experience a noticeable change in skills, memory, temperament, or overall personality. It is important to note that even the least differentiated OSDD-1b parts are still more differentiated, separate, and autonomous than the most developed parts that can be present in borderline personality disorder, posttraumatic stress disorder, or complex posttraumatic stress disorder, none of which involve dissociated parts that have a unique sense of self or self history. ... As well, some individuals with OSDD-1b do have highly distinct alters such as those often found in DID. For these individuals, the main defining factor is their lack of inter-identity amnesia." On top of that, have a look at how the memory thing is important: "... individuals with OSDD-1b do not black out or lose time. They may or may not have dissociative amnesia for aspects of their trauma history, but information flow between alters in an OSDD-1b system is much more consistent. While someone with DID might not realize that or when they lose time, someone with OSDD-1b is usually fully aware of their alters' activities and is very unlikely to find any evidence of unremembered activities. If they ever were to have a dissociative trance or fugue episode, it would be unassociated with their alters. They tend to struggle less with their memory on a day to day basis." Anyone else think this could have been written about Shallan. She reads like a textbook case to me. Just a quick thing about alts. There are two basic types; ANPs (apparently normal personalities) and EPs (emotional personalities). ANPs as their name suggests are the ones doing most of the day to day stuff. They are functional and may appear to be in complete control. They usually have a few coping mechanisms but when faced with an emotional situation they tend to "fail" because they are deliberately built to not handle heavy emotional struggles. That is where EPs come in. EPs have all the emotional elements of the personality put on them. They tend to be the alts that carry the person's history of abuse and the pain associated with it. Regarding treatment. According to medscape (a medical resource I use for my studies and is largely blocked by need for a subscription - tho you can get some bits for free) and the BMJ best practice stuff (another resource that you definitely need a sub to), the main goal is to help the person re-integrate their alts into one personality. Note re-integrate. These are not imagined constructs of an unhealthy mind, they are part of the core. Plenty of people with DID and OSDD struggle with reintegration and many, with adequate support and learning new coping mechanisms can be functional people while still having alts. Most will eventually spontaneously start to reintegrate at some point, but it is a messy process (even at the best of times) and people without adequate mental resources (eg coping mechanisms for stress) in place at the time are at risk of fragmenting again which is also painful. The mainstay of treatment initially is getting to a relationship of trust with the therapist. The second is to provide the client with different coping mechanisms that help them control the anxiety that causes them to shift identities. The third is to start talking about the past traumas that are the underlying cause of fragmentation (usually abuse during very early childhood, but there are plenty of of other situations that can cause it such as prolonged/repeated hospitalisation in infancy and childhood). This is the hardest bit and the reason that people with DID and related disorders are often in therapy for years. Without facing the pain of the past, the alts that are burying it won't be reintegrated into the whole. Some people manage to maintain a line of functionality by suppressing the alts with the pain. This may be a viable practice if the alt that identifies with the name on the person's birth certificate and remembers most of their autobiographical history, is otherwise an ANP. If the personality with the autobiography is an EP and suffers the pain of the memory, then it is much harder to achieve consistent and stable behaviour and thought patters without re-integration because the EP was essentially designed to feel the pain so the other alts don't have to. In my mind, Shallan is an EP, Veil is an ANP and Radiant is a smaller fragment ANP. Shallan is the one who feels the pain and despite her own repression of memories, she does remember them. If she turns around, confronts the pain and accepts it, then (because this is book and therefore likely easier than RL) she will likely reintegrate on her own. Please note; In all my reading on this subject I have not once come across the idea that it is ok to treat the alts differently. As an example, I have a brother and we get along great most of the time, but I sometimes get mad at him because he's a younger brother and therefore annoying as crem. That isn't treating him differently, he is still being treated as my brother in both settings. I can only get mad at him the way I do because he's my younger brother - no one else can get a rise out me like he can. I have been out drinking with him, but he doesn't become my "drinking buddy", he is my brother, who is also a friend, who I happen to be able to go out drinking with. In the same way, you can do different things with someone with OSDD or DID and treat them exactly the same way regardless of who they think they are at the time. This is really important. Whilst a person with the disorder may think of themselves as different people, those who have reintegrated recognise that they simply had "different me's". All the facets of the core personality are represented once reintegration occurs. Obviously some alts are "bigger" and "more dominant" than others so reintegtion may result in a complete person that seems very like one of the alts. There will still be subtle differences - particularly in skills learned. For example, If Shallan has an alt called "Clown" and "Clown" is a tiny fragment of the whole but Clown learns to juggle. Then while Shallan is fragmented, the "Shallan", "Veil" and "Radiant" alts will not be able to juggle, but "Clown" can. When she reintegrates, Shallan will be able to juggle. So anyway. Having now read the reddit beta read thread I am very concerned that BS has misrepresented a serious issue. OSDD and DID may not be common, but it isn't as rare as people think. It has also suffered the problem of being a useful literary device that people think they can play with to suit the needs of the narrative. That's why "multiple personality disorder" has such negative connotations now - it's been mischaracterised and misrepresented so badly. So what makes me concerned? Firstly, the idea that Adolin could recognise the "real" Shallan. IRL this is not possible because they are all real. Maybe the Shallan alt is the closest approximation to the complete Shallan, but that does't make Veil or Radiant (or "Clown" lol) any less a part of her. IRL anchoring an alt may allow an ANP alt to function in the long term, although they are always going to be at risk of deteriorating if they suffer emotional road-blocks. But anchoring an EP is not likely to last because they can't really cope - they were designed to suffer so that the rest of the system can function. It might work. It is still not as positive an outcome as reintegration has been found to be (multiple studies at this point according to my reading). Whilst people IRL need to judge their own particular situation themselves and decide (usually with the help of a therapist) what the best way to go is, in a fictional setting, isn't it better to take the path the is recognised as the better one? You aren't trying to subvert a trope here after all. Secondly, I am concerned that Shallan needed Adolin to "recognise" her in order for her to "stabilise". My inner feminist wanted to throw my book across the room about that. I didn't though because it's a kindle and my pragmatic side stopped me. Kaladin might have been "lightened" by Shallan in the chasm, but the impact of their relationship had no effect on his progression at the end of WoR as far as I can see. Dalinar's progression is about his choice - Evi may have given him some ideas but she is not the cause of his ability to progress. Even Cultivation didn't know if his "growth" that she allowed would make him Odium's at the end. It didn't, because Dalinar made a choice. Shallan, on the other hand, needed Adolin to "see" her because she couldn't manage it on her own. Her "choice" was between 2 men. She didn't even consider that she didn't have to choose either of them, or that she could actually keep it going if she wanted to. I mean, really? She couldn't convince Adolin that she simply needed more time and that it wasn't that she wanted Kaladin more but that at 17 it wasn't unreasonable to be a bit flighty? No, she had to choose between them. Thirdly I am concerned regarding the whole Kaladin/Shallan arc. I don't mind that she ended up with Adolin per se though I am very worried that it seems to be a "love conquers all" moment (it doesn't). What I don't understand is why so much time was spent on the Kal/Shallan thing in the first place. Why tie so much of Shallan's main arc into a romantic subplot? So many of her scenes are either in the presence of Kaladin or Adolin. Taking OB and WoR together I wonder if it is most of them. I don't think this is true for Kal. Adolin is a side character so he gets less screentime overall, but we even get quite alot of scenes with him without Shallan. So my question is why? I loved the chasm sequence in WoR, but why add the romance element at all? You can bring two characters to a point of understanding without it getting romantic. Storms, we see that happen with Adolin and Kal! Why try to suggest that Kal is being "bad" for her by suggesting he suggests that she hides things? It is no worse than Adolin enabling her dissociation which is essentially allowing her to hide anyway. I don't understand why Shallan has to have her arc shown via a "love triangle" aspect to show how different sides of her are reacting. She had plenty of inner conflict (Ghostbloods vs Jasnah anyone?). Even if the romance was going to tie in to make it easier to follow, why not have it as her struggling between telling Adolin the truth and wanting to hide it in case he hates her. That is a huge inner conflict. It feels like Shallan as the 17 year old girl couldn't have possibly had an inner conflict that wasn't about boys. So not only can her resolution come from a big strong man, but she can only portray her inner conflicts via her crushes. Anyway, I know I am overreacting somewhat, but having now read the beta-readers thread including Sanderson's comments there, I am feeling almost as low as I did when I finished the book the first time (when I felt there were serious problems but had little evidence to back up those feelings) I had rationalised it to myself that we may get a continuation of the OSDD issues that Shallan is facing because you don't just "get better" from it without serious work. I know Sanderson says she has a "long way to go", but given this paragraph I am certain he feels that he is basically done with it down and it's mostly an upward trend for Shallan now: "This wasn't coming across in the early drafts, though I sometimes coulen't [sic] quite tell which responses were knee jerk "Twilight ruined love triangles! Don't do them!" comments and which were "I'm not convinced these four people--counting Shallan as two--are actually working in relationships." (I'll note that I, personally, am very pleased with how this part turned out in the books--but the betas certainly helped me get there. I'd guess that this is one of the more contentious matters of fan discussion about the book. The point of bringing it up here isn't to discredit anyone's feelings about the actual arc, just point out how the betas helped me find the balance I wanted.)" Ok, on one hand, I'm glad he got where he wanted because as an artist it is important to be able to convey your meaning. But I find the idea that he meant to make this so close to OSDD then completely betray the rational theories surrounding it's management disturbing. That's right, disturbing. If he was advocating not using vaccines for Polio there'd be an outcry, but because this is a mental health issue, he gets a pass? No. I also feel a bit betrayed on a personal level because I don't like getting misled. IIRC there was a conversation somewhere on this forum that he said that if he wrote a romance love triangle thing, he'd want it to be obvious to most readers where he was going to end up. I don't feel that way. A simple bit of misdirection in terms of a love triangle is a few scenes then a clear break. Not two books worth of foreshadowing followed by a break that feels forced because it relates to the supposed resolution of a different arc which, as I mentioned above, is unrealistic (at best). I know Shallan's main arc can't be resolved quickly. But then maybe think about portraying her OSDD differently? Give her some space at the end to come to terms with what she is going through, maybe let her understand Wit's advice - and that it is shown on screen. Let us see her interact with Adolin like a normal human being instead of "Without you I fade". Do real people even talk like that? Ok, rant over. I know a lot of this is personal and I get that other people are happy with the outcome so this isn't trying to criticise that feeling. In fairness, I loved the book until the very end and my concerns are now colouring how I view the rest of it. The other arcs are mostly wonderful and as usual Brandon does a fantastic job of worldbuilding. I loved seeing more of the Azish and getting more understanding of Venli. But that doesn't, for me, negate the issues I've described above.

I am blaming myself for not seeing this topic earlier.... Yet, as many upvotes as I gave on my climb through these ~120 messages, I think there are some things about Jasnah in Oathbringer (and in the entire Stormlight Archive) that bear additional repetition and stress. First and foremost, she is my favorite character, by a mile. In my, very personal opinion, in Oathbringer, she steals nearly every scene she is. In fact, some of the things the OP is blaming her for, in my opinion, are actually moments of awesome. Let's have a quick go at it. Jasnah and the Heralds... It seems like a lot of people concentrate on "And kill them" part of Jasnah's suggestion. Yet, the "We need to find Heralds" part of it is actually brilliant, and none of the other people in the room have thought of this before. The logic here is clear. Jasnah is actually not suggesting a sacrifice of some random people (or even of some specific mundane people). She is suggesting that Dalinar and Co. find the people who entered an Oathpact with Honor and ask them to do the job they agreed to do. This is very different than other examples of people willing to sacrifice other people. It is even more interesting that this suggestion comes from the heretic in the room (although, at this point the notion of a heretic is pretty meaningless to everyone except for the Vorin religious hierarchy), rather than from the devout Vorins taught that Heralds protect them from Desolations. I mean, she literally just asks that the Vorins ask their Prophets to do what they are supposed to. Jasnah and Kaladin... Brandon uses the scene to highlight the differences in how various Orders of Knights Radiant approach the same problems. This is important, because up until recently we've been getting a somewhat skewed image of who the Knights Radiant are. In the scene we had a quintessential Windrunner and a quintessential Elsecaller air out their reasoning. Seeing Knights Radiant passionately disagree and continue working together is important, and this is exactly how this scene pans out. Everyone seems to forget that in addition to "bridgeman", and "woman are you insane", we also had a "I'll get some skyeels for you to cuddle with" and "I will happily cuddle with skyeels if your dudes spend some useful time immitating them" exchange. Jasnah is right. rust needs to be done, and Kaladin needs to see to his responsibilities. Kaladin actually sees it and gives her respect at the end. I do not see this exchange as problematic at all. I see the entire sequence, from the moment Jasnah takes the discussion over with her suggestion to find Heralds, to the end of the meeting, as a philosophical argument. Jasnah and Shallan. Here things are simple and a lot of people have called it. Shallan is being extremely self-centered, and neglectful. Jasnah actually does her homework on Shallan (!), and continues her education. Jasnah and compassion. I cannot understand what the argument is even about. Reread the WoR Prologue. Reread any pre-Thaylen City Jasnah viewpoint. What you see there is in a stark contrast with Shallan's view of Jasnah. What we see in Jasnah's POVs (including the apocryphal one) is someone absolutely terrified about what is coming and feeling a huge burden of responsibility, and as of late - also of guilt and frustration that all her time spent preparing for what has come is, in her mind, completely wasted. We see a consciousness of a person who feels a huge burden of responsibility. Some of this may be arrogance (Jasnah feels that she is the one who should be best equipped to face this responsibility), but she is also not wrong. Jasnah spends her entire viewpoints in an internal monologue and conversations with Ivory (who is quietly, a truly awesome spren) in constant doubt of herself and her actions and their consequences. I cannot believe this is not apparent to anyone reading her POVs. This, btw, makes her even more awesome. Jasnah embodies the first attribute of the Elsecallers from the very beginning. But in Oathbringer we finally see that she also embraces the second attribute, Caring. I've said elsewhere, I suspect that the Second and Third Ideal of Elsecallers is something like "I will be the voice of reason", and an extension of it (in the same way in which the Third Ideal of Windrunners extends and strengthens their Second Ideal), but that the Fourth Ideal, which I do not doubt Jasnah has already spoken, is something like "I will not lose empathy" or "I will not lose my compassion" (my other reason for thinking about it is because for story-building reasons a person who combines intelligence AND compassion needs to be contrasted with Taravangian, who alternates them, and Jasnah fits the bill perfectly as such a contrast).

Well, I mean, they did lock the thread that (mostly) kept it contained More on the topic of this thread, when I try and evaluate to myself what exactly was Wit's advice, how did Shallan interpret it, and what was the end result by the time of OB conclusion, I try to focus on it through the lens of possible plotting and conflicts and resolutions for future books. Shallan has more truths to speak to progress. And I don't believe that these truths are supposed to be minor. These are truths (imo) that Shallan is either completely unaware of, or actively suppressing to the point where she might as well be unaware of them. So thinking about what truths that she could speak that would have as big of an emotional and narrative impact enough to progress to the highest levels of radiant, ones that are of the equivalent to "I killed my own mother", "I killed my own father" or even more. I can't help but think that this is not something Adolin is going to be able to help her with. Perhaps her final truth could end up being something like "I am Shallan, and Veil, and Radiant", but in order for that truth to really have impact, I think that her state at end of OB had to be as far from this recognition in Shallan as possible. So my thoughts are that she is very far from this truth, as evidenced in part by her line where she stuffs them down and declares vehemently that "she was occasionally them, but they were NOT her". The fact that her personalities are still present, however, means that this issue will be at the forefront going into the next book, and like I mentioned above, I think Shallans next truth needs to be something that even we as readers may have terrible pinning down or accepting. Because of this, I do not really believe, truly, that her next truth is going to be related to her split personalities directly, but instead that the healing of her personalities is going to allow her to see the reality of her next truth. To me, this would be a very interesting narrative choice to go down, as it ties in very nicely with Tyn's warning in WoR about how getting lost in a lie, believing the lie, would end up destroying her. Not only that, but now that a marriage is involved, she's not just possibly destroying herself, but Adolin and the rest of her new family. With such a plot, we could see some interesting challenges and growth for a number of characters 1. Upon learning this truth, how does Shallan deal with it? Does she address it immediately? Or Does it break her all over again? Perhaps it can even open her up to Odiums influence (further). We're still missing a champion btw, now that Dalinar had declined 2. Adolin will be crushed. He will be broken, he will grieve, he will mourn, he will do something other than play the second fiddle to everyone else's narrative. He might even have a greater chance at reviving that blade (I'm sorry, but if Adolin revives Maya without any kind of major struggle emotionally, then...color me done for finding anything interesting about the character). If murdering Sadeas didn't cause him any emotional it narrative turmoil, then perhaps having a broken heart will. I would find it a very compelling narrative that instead of the expected: -Adolin helps Shallan heal, and then it's happy endings all around We got -Adolin helps the woman he loves heal, only for her to realize that after all the initial glamour of their super fast betrothal and marriage, she does not in fact love him the way he loves her So, looking at future narrative possibilities, I put myself in the camp that Shallan did NOT understand Wit's advice, and is not necessarily on the road to recovery, because that allows her to be set up for a more significant truth in future books that can have a rippling impact across the rest of the series.

I noticed that too, and laughed. Which order of Knights cares the least about oaths, and is more concerned with truth? Which spren would be most understand of breaking an oath if it came from higher self-awareness? I wonder if we know anyone who might be like that... For all the people bemoaning love-triangle tropes and cliches, I figured love-at-first-sight was the least likely to actually come true. I can live with opposites-attract, and I expected main-character-romance, but love-at-first-sight I thought was the basest, least imaginative trope to use, and thus least likely to be actually used and most likely to be subverted. It's only sloppy if it isn't showing us that Shallan isn't well, she isn't better, and she's not making the right choices. It's sloppy if she ends up happily ever after with her dreamboat. I'm with you, especially about the symbolism. How can Brandon be so good at subtle foreshadowing when it comes to magic and cosmere and gods and plot, and so bad at doing the same thing with interpersonal relationships? Is he really bad Well, if that other thread wasn't locked, we wouldn't be here in the first place. A few familiar faces seem to be making the rounds, and we want to talk about Shallan and her taste in men.

Well that'd be more like ASK 6. ASK: Episode I: The Phantom Ship ASK: Episode II: Attack of the Ship ASK: Episode III: Revenge of the Ship Bridge Four: An ASK story ASK: Episode IV: A New Ship ASK: Episode V: The Ship strikes back ASK: Episode VI: Return of the Ship ASK: Episode VII: The Ship Awakens ASK: Episode VIII: The Last Ship Please save me from my self!

Ok, sorry to drag this thread back in a direction we don't want to go, but THIS is what I mean by what are supposed to do with this ending. Wit's chapter where he gives Shallan his advice is called "The Girl Who Stood Up", and his advice is partly to see that she is the one standing up. And here, in her big moment of finding herself, she is sitting down... This just feels so sloppy. For goodness sake, even if the girl needs a man to find the "real" her, can she at least stand up while doing so? When standing up was given so much symbolism earlier in the book?? ETA - Sorry for the rant, but I'm really trying to get behind this ending, but I notice things like this and it just makes it so, so hard. I just want to be sold on this ending! ETA2 - I'm spoilering this bc it's love triangle related.

My interpretation of the whole thing was not to assume that Adolin is going to be her crutch. Shallan's working on mastering her personas right now, and Adolin caught her in a moment where she had lost her control. While she was reasserting control, he recognized who she was at the core. My read of it was in that moment she realized that Adolin really understands her on a level that Kaladin simply doesn't and that made up her mind. I don't think this is leading to Adolin being the person that she needs to reassert her control every time or anything. I think that he'll try to help, and maybe even succeed in helping sometimes, but it's not going to be that easy. If in SA 4, Shallan is hanging on Adolin's arm to maintain her semblance of self, I'll accept that I read it wrong, but I really don't think that what Brandon is driving at here is the implication that Shallan is going to be dependent on Adolin for her mental health.

I know I've been silent in the last few pages, but I'm still watching this and I have to say.... We might as well rename the thread to ASK 2 - Return of the Ship

I still shake my head wondering what exactly convinced Shalladin supporters betas. Its not that OB was full of hints on Shalladin being bad ship, neither it has alot of hints on Shadolin being the solid right design. Some answers shocked me by how indignant they sounded. "Thanks god its over like that", "Its an oath, dont they dare to break it", "Kaladin is terrible for Shallan", "Kaladin always was just a friend for Shallan", "Adolin is so good because he picked the real Shallan". Like, really? I wont ask how did they read the book. It just worry me that they might influence Brandon's story. I still secretly hope he rubbed his hands looking at misled betas, because that clearly was his intent to misled the readers who didnt read carefully.

I'm with you here. I was very much looking forward to finding out what happened to Shallan at the end of the battle, and when it was Radiant who was the 'real' image, it confused and disheartened me. I'll also cop to being a shameless Shalladin shipper. There's too much foreshadowing that needs to be discarded now, and it makes me think less of Brandon as a writer. If it was always meant to be Shadolin, then it was done sloppily, and if he changed his mind while writing OB, it was still done sloppily. When I'm used to tight, well foreshadowed endings where all the clues are there. A causal betrothal isn't a clue, it's a prop. Shallan starting out on the Wind's Pleasure is a clue. And so forth. I'm with @PhineasGage in that I'm feeling misled and I'm not pleased about it. It's a good thing I'm here for the apocalypse, not the romance. The reveals we had in OB were much better foreshadowed than Shallan's.....mess. The clues were not any clearer, but made sense in retrospect, and it's the Cosmere-level story that's going to keep me coming back, regardless if Jasnah gets a man or Shallan flits back and forth between men. Coming back to the point of this thread, I think the scene I quoted extensively is where Shallan finally broke into (at least) three. She wanted to go to Veil, but couldn't, forced the new persona of Radiant to take over, and firmly split herself into three.

I guess the part that bothers me, is that everyone wants to link the two stories together. I'm with @Windrunner here. Her mental state may have influenced her choice, but her choice doesn't influence her mental state. The idea that Adolin is going to somehow be her "Savior" now doesn't fit. A person can be supportive and be helpful, and there's nothing wrong with that. I don't see Shallan hiding behind Adolin to fix her problems though. That's not the character that we've seen at any point. All he's going to do is be there for her. If he tried to "fix" her, it'd be no different than the times he tried to "protect" her that she detested so much. The romantic story, and her mental story arc are interconnected, because it's the same character. One is not reliant on the other though.

Jasnah is confident bordering on arrogant about her intelligence. From what we’ve heard from others in the books, this does not seem unwarranted on her part. Does she need to hide this fact to make others feel better? I say it’s not a fatal character flaw, just like Adolin doesn’t need to hide the fact he is better at dueling than anyone else (he’s confident bordering on arrogant regarding his skill in that.) I also think Jasnah is a bit hot-headed and it can be easy to get under her skin in the right context; we see this in both her conversation with Kaladin and with Amaram. With Amaram she admits he got to her and she went for the lowest common denominator - calling his mother promiscuous. She knows this is bad, but she can’t help herself, so she seems to be aware of this flaw. Regarding the two specific instances you mentioned... Putting yourself in Jasnah’s shoes, she gets parachuted back into a world which has been drastically changed. She’s a princess and a powerful lighteyes, and she gets challenged by a darkeye who is essentially the leading Radiant in many people’s eyes, while she likely sees herself as the “founder” of the Radiants. (She likely has had her powers longer than anyone else, and is certainly the most skilled at her powers.) Kaladin also gets under a lot of people’s skin (Adolin, Shallan, almost every lighteyes ever); he’s incredibly assertive about his opinions and often in a caustic manner. Like Jasnah, he’s used to being obeyed. I was fine with how that interaction panned out, because they both seems to have a mutual understanding of respect at the end of it. With Shallan, Jasnah doesn’t know the character growth we’ve seen - when last she saw Shallan, she WAS Jasnah’s ward and scribe who was very defirential. Shallan doesn’t want to go back into that box (understandably), but I don’t judge Jasnah for thinking of her that way. We also see the negativity of these interactions mostly from Shallan’s perspective, and clearly she’s chafing at the suppression of her new found freedom. She did whatever she felt like in WoR, and she really liked that. Of course she’s not going to want a minder again. Jasnah isn’t perfect, and she isn’t always mature. If she didn’t have flaws, she wouldn’t be interesting! She is incredibly badass and no-nonsense. She’s brilliant, and as we saw in OB, she is not without humanity (Renarin!) I love having a strong, unapologetic female character, so I love Jasnah! ETA: I think had Jasnah killed Renarin I could see more strongly the Amaram/Mr T comparison, but in the end she’s not willing to go through will any means to justify an end. This is a huge difference between her and them.

I interpreted this: //"Burning. Overwhelming. Power. It as the scream of a thousand warriors on the battlefield. It was the moment of most sensual touch and ecstasy. It was the sorrow of loss, the joy of victory. And it was hatred. Deep, pulsing hatred with a pressure to turn all things molten. It was the heat of a thousand suns, it was the lives of all men wrapped up in one, defined by everything they felt."// As indicating "the burden of God's divine hatred"--in that it is everything that God "hates" and the anger shown in the hatred of it, so not just the emotion of hatred, but the embodiment of what God himself would proclaim to hate: selfishness, power, angry, murder, lust, emotion devoid of focus. All of this filtered through what Rayse himself hated--which is probably the idea of God himself and all who now embody portions of him/Adolnasium. It even seems like he's willing to give himself to others as the focus/object of their hate: "blame me--I did this" in order to channel that emotion into Odium's own power--a self-fulfilling cycle of hatred. Sustaining hatred at that level is too much. Which also, to me, would explain why Odium might have splintered off the more uncontrollable parts of god's hatred: gluttony/lust, passion for the kill, etc. They interfered with his ability to strategize. But I don't know about that. Those splinters now have their own separate intentions, which Odium obviously has no idea might act differently when divorced from his divine hatred.

In the epilogue Hoid mentions that the man, to whom he entrusts the orphan girl, is named Cob. That is the name of Wax’s carriage driver

I just want to talk about this a bit, because after OB, I really dislike Jasnah Kholin. She has never been a favorite of mine, but I have found her to be alright. She has some good moments in WoK. In Oathbringer, that wasn't really the case (she has cool scenes here too, in the Battle of Thaylen City) since I found her to be a straight up douchebag. Here goes why: 1. The Voidbringer talk in Part 2. Here Jasnah wants to condemn the Heralds to eternal torture as opposed to Kaladin, who wants to spare them. Jasnahs drastic methods aren't why I didlike her (I like both King T and Amaram). What I dislike is her being a total douchebag to Kaladin when he disagrees. She quickly starts insulting him, and talks down to him. That is what I don't like. Granted Kaladin asks if she is insane when hearing about her plan, but I don't really think of that as an insult, but more a strong objection. Jasnah instantly starts insulting Kaladin, suggesting that he lacks logic, and that he isn't grown-up. 2. Her treatment of Shallan. Shallan has become an accomplished Radiant, who has saved the entire Alethi force, found Urithiru, and fought off an Unmade. Jasnah makes her a scribe. I understand that Jasnah is more experienced, that she can teach, and that Shallan needs to learn things, but giving her scribe duty is stupid. For one, it shows that Jasnah considers Shallan to be below her in status. Two, Jasnah should be able to figure out that Shallan might start to feel rebellious if she is treated like a random servant. Three, Shallan deserves to be treated as more of an equal, after all she has done. In short, I cant help but read Jasnah as someone who is convinced of her own brilliance. She thinks that she knows best, and that her ideas should be followed, while looking down on others who lack experience, or disagrees with her. She is domineering and self-important. Her aura of "I know best" is hugely bothering, and her borderline refusal to look at things from other peoples perspective is a glaring flaw. I also have a quick question. Jasnahs tactics do lack emphaty, and when suggesting that they kill the Heralds, Jasnah even says that it is better to sacrifice a few to save many. How come that everyone loves her anyway, but hates the likes of King T and Amaram? Where lies the difference? So, is there anyone who can explain/defend Jasnah? I'd love to hear peoples thoughts about her.

Renarin has a gemheart. His fits, before he bonded Glys, is most likely various lesser spren inhabiting his gemheart. His body unlike the Listeners can't change which results in fits. Renarin and Glys is not bonded like the other KRs, not the Nahel Bond. This leads me to think that the Alethi, like the Herdazian and the Horneaters are part Listener. It's been constantly pointed out that they are tall. Now we know their height is not 'normal' and that Shin height are the norm across various planets. Which means that it could be part of the solution to the Skybreaker oaths and the problem of Rosharan nativity.

This is really more a Mistborn and greater cosmere theory; however, it relies partly on material found in Oathbringer, so putting it in here for now. Before I begin, this has spoilers for Mistborn (specifically Bands of Mourning). It also draws on Word of Brandon and some material from the various system write-ups in the Arcanum collection. So, if you try to avoid the spoilers from Brandon's comments, or haven't read Bands of Mourning, please read no further! ---- So the red rift we see in Wax's visit to the Cognitive Realm seems to bear a resemblance to another red stellar phenomenon seen on Roshar, Taln's Scar. For a lot of people, this seems to have ties to Odium, which would make sense - Odium did a lot of travelling, and is a hostile force towards shards. However, we discovered a few big hints in the book. Neither is completely iron-clad, but they seem to make sense. Firstly, Odium himself is connected to Damnation, possibly locked there by the Oathpact. As Damnation likely is Ashyn Braize in the Roshar system, it seems that Odium hasn't left Roshar in a while. This doesn't necessarily mean he isn't behind the issues distracting Harmony, since Era 2 takes place after Stormlight 5 (and thus he could get free around then and go exploring elsewhere), but Taln's Scar was already visible prior to this Desolation - if he did cause it, he did so significantly in the past. Furthermore, though, he is incredibly set on finishing his work on Roshar. Unless that work appears finished by the end of Book 5, he wouldn't be causing trouble off-world. Second, Odium's colors are NOT red. His colors appear to be white and gold mixed. This also appears to be the color of his god-metal, assuming the dagger at the end is made from it. This is relevant for a reason: if that white-gold metal is Odium's god-metal (Raysium, we can call it), then a different Shard is behind the Trellium spikes that corrupt the kandra and, presumably, are behind the red-eyed, Set-aligned Faceless Immortals. Trellium is a silvery metal with rust-like spots on it. Further, from a Word of Brandon, we find out that red is a color that is associated with one shard co-opting another Shard's investiture. It's not specifically tied to Odium. So any shard could be behind red colorations. This makes sense with the Red-Eyed Faceless Immortals - if they are indeed a type of Kandra, they are a corruption of the Investiture behind them. So then - who is Trell? Let's look at some other clues... The Faceless at the end of Bands seemed to indicate the original plan was to take over Scadrial. However, it appears as if the plan changed - the advances that the Set discovered convinced the Faceless' superiors that they would be better suited eliminating all life on that "sphere" instead. Given the word choice of "sphere," that implies the entire planet - which in turn implies that Trell originates off of Scadrial. This doesn't necessarily mean that the Kandra does, of course - it could be a mistwraith awakened by Trellium rather than a standard blessing, and then possessed of Trell's will - but Trell themself comes from elsewhere in the Cosmere. Further, this implies Trell is expansionistic. This is a key implication. One shard, and only one, seems to have any intent on spreading outwards and taking over other worlds - Autonomy. But wait - Autonomy's name isn't Trell. It's Bavadin. How does that reconcile? We only know Trell as "Trell" because that is who the deity is associated with. We don't know if the threatening Trell is in fact the same Trell that inspired Trelagism prior to the Lord Ruler. It is possible that Trell is just a name coopted by the Shard behind the Faceless and the Set. Alternatively, it is the same being, under a different identity. This fits in with things we know about Autonomy still, though. Brandon has said that, when it comes to Bavadin, gender, race, and general appearance aren't things you can get hung up on - in fact, he flat out says that Bavadin is worshipped under many different names even in the same pantheon. This provides another issue for Trell being Odium - Odium is egotistical in such a way that I can't see him taking on another name. He may call himself Rayse or Odium depending on the situation, but nothing we've seen suggests he'd go incognito of his own accord. Others may mistake him for something else, but if he was involved, his passion would drive him to be recognized as what he was. Autonomy has multiple personas. Autonomy doesn't need to care what name they are known by. This also fits in with something in the Trelagist ideology. Trelagism teaches that the stars are "the thousand eyes of Trell." Autonomy has many forms simultaneously, and many identities, unlike any other known Shard. Further, Autonomy controls many systems. It's entirely possible that agents of Trell's/Autonomy's, or worldhoppers from that area, arrived in the past of Scadrial and taught that they were Trell's eyes since so many stars belonged to Autonomy - and avatars of autonomy may have been on all of them. Then there's the Faceless Immortal at the end of Bands. If indeed it is a Kandra, that would imply that Autonomy knows about the shapeshifting abilities they possess. Something that would be very handy for a Shard with many personas - a great way to be in more than one place. Especially if Autonomy is using different personas to possess the kandra in question. It is possible Autonomy doesn't need this of course; they claim to be raising a new avatar on one of their worlds, so it's possible that the splitting is just an aspect of their power. Then again, they had to raise up that avatar; perhaps the discovery of the kandra made them eager for the faster way of self-(selves?-) expression. Again, this is just a theory. But I thought it seemed like a possibility given the avalanche of clues we've gotten recently.

OK, guys. Here's the single MOST IMPORTANT thing that OB brought up. List told Gawx not to trust Dalinar because he has a good butt. Butt, (see what I did there?) Lift says (in Edgedancer) that she thought Wit was awesome. (As old Whitehead) So. That begs the question. The question for the ages. A question we need to get WoB on. Does Wit have a nice butt? The fate of Roshar - nay!- of the Cosmere itself rests on the answer to that burning question.

If Kaladin isn't going to end up with Shallan (which I haven't given up on yet, onwards good ship Shalladin), I don't see any other character we're familiar with as a good partner. I'm baffled at the Jasnah/Kaladin pairing, because I would think that Jasnah would have had ample opportunity to find a suitable mate by now, and I'm having trouble seeing how she's gone this long resisting the pressure to partner and marry, only to succumb to our Brightlord Brooding-eyes. I'm frankly a little disturbed by the Syl/Kaladin pairing. I mean, they're already paired in the nahel bond. It's not like they're going to sleep together, or raise children, and they've already got the only bond they need. Syl wants Kaladin to be happy, and she's going to keep pushing him to find someone that makes him happy, and that's great. Tarah is the most likely to come back, what with the small flashback we get in OB, but at the same time I'm happy with her as a previous character to illustrate the time between losing Tien and killing Helaran which isn't very fleshed out. Frankly, I'd be surprised if she's even still alive. There's an apocalypse going on, you know. Rysn I could see, but only in the way that they're opposite sex and approximately the right age. There's some duality in the Wind/Waves, as well as Strong/Weak (physically) and then consume stormlight/pet consumes stormlight. Those are the kinds of things I was looking for with regard to Shalladin, so if Sanderson isn't interested in thematic contrast, then so be it. Frankly, I expect Kaladin to stay lonely and single through the front five books, and I expect the gap between to change everything we thought we knew.

Brandon Sanderson is disappointed by the missed opportunity of calling this thread "BS Facts"

I don't see how humans (or Parshendi) can become spren after they die. Spren are ideas come alive, and are, to varying degrees, Splinters. Humans, while they have some innate investiture, aren't Splinters. Plus, in MB:SH, we find out what happens to regular people when they die.

Renarin does not have a gemheart. Neither does his spren persistently reside there. Glys goes for it because of the mechanics of bonds with singers, which takes him in the area of Renarin's heart. But nothing in the fragments you are quoting has even the slightest hint that Renarin has a gemheart.

My issue is that this condition IRL is not about "mastering" the alts, it's about integrating them and accepting them as part of you. The Shallan he sees can't be the one at her core because that would require the other ones to not exist anymore and become part of her again. The fact that Adolin treats each one as a discrete individual suggests he doesn't actually understand her deeply enough.

If you're going to doubt the name given him by the other Shards, then you have to doubt the names of all of the Shards. Honor calls him Odium in the vision where he tells Dalinar he is dead, so we have the word of a fellow Shardholder on what he is. For me, that's enough. Calling himself passion is no more than a word game, a deflection from his true nature, so that people will not see that what he is does is hate, and destroys what he hates. Because the Shard is held by a loathsome and crafty individual (Hoid'd description), he interprets the Shard's intent in a dangerous way. He lies, misdirects, shows up as a bountiful being offering freedom and justice and people buy it. He's an interesting analog to Satan, in fact, who can appear as an angel of light if he wishes; you have to know him by his deeds, understand the truth of his fancy words to avoid being trapped by it, because he can make what is wrong look really good or feel good, or at least look unstoppable, thereby engendering despair leading to betrayal. I think you have to look to Venli's meeting with Dalinar to understand what Odium actually has planned. He's not going to spare any unless he must. He wants to kill Cultivation, destroy anything left of those who opposed them and then get the hell out of dodge and go looking for another mark. He's the closest thing to real evil we've seen. It's not that hatred is in and of itself wrong; it's that hatred in the absence of any context, hate for the sake of hate, is always wrong, always evil. This is who Odium is. Raw, unabated hatred, cloaked in a fair semblance so he can get close, stick the knife in and TWIST.

So, I was a giant ball of emotion during the last few hundred pages of Oathbringer. I'm just curious: Did anyone else have a good cry moment like me? I cried briefly when Teft said his third ideal and wept to the point that my husband had to console me when it was revealed that Skar and Drehy saved Elhokar's son. (He thought a character had died and had a good laugh at me when I explained that I was "happy" crying.) Anyone? Was it just me? (disclaimer: I'm a pregnant lady, so my life is just a big emotional storm right now and that may be why I was so emotionally charged.)

Harkaylain is name first mentioned in Dalinar's Starfall Vision during The Way of Kings. After Dalinar finishes fighting the midnight essences, he briefly talks with the female Knight Radiant (likely a Stoneward based on the amber color of her shardplate) about midnight essences and desolations. The radiant's last comment before she runs off to continue fighting is Many (including the Coppermind Wiki article on Harkaylain) made the assumption that Harkaylain was the name of the male Windrunner in the Starfall vision. In Oathbringer we now know that this isn't the case, because the name Harkaylain is mentioned again, this time at the start of the vision when Dalinar (placed into the role of the female KR), tries to pry information about shardplate from the Windrunner. It seems unlikely that the Windrunner would refer to himself in the third person, so we are left with a bit of a mystery regarding who Harkaylain is/was. Being referred to by name twice in two different books might be important. He sounds like some sort of Radiant Leader/Authority, and the two characteristics he is given are quite interesting: he is rarely wrong, and he is some sort of authority or expert on the functioning of shardplate. Could he be the singular leader of the Radiants at the time of this vision? Perhaps a Bondsmith? Or a very knowledgeable Elsecaller? Or maybe just a programming glitch left in the visions by Honor, where any questions that the actors in the vision can't answer will be referred to a mysterious Harkaylain?

I promised the Shard that if I got the Oathbringer cover giveaway I would memefy Oathbringer. I figured I would do the first chapter so you could see what that would entail! Also, I might make this meme thread anyway. But I still want the dust jacket! PROLOGUE: TO WEEP Eshonai remembers how surprised she was when she first saw humans. She remembers what she thought when she first saw humans with parshmen. She thinks about herself And about humans And about Alethi art She finds the king, but pretends to not speak Alethi She speaks to Gavilar, who is quite perceptive But then reveals his true plan Eshonai is afraid And tries to make him stop Gavilar doesn’t listen, but he does show Eshonai a map of Roshar, which is neat Klade, another Parshendi, finds Szeth to assasinste Gavilar, with the help of a voice in his head. Probably Odium, or maybe an unmade? And Gavilar is killed More to come one if I get the dust jacket! Ah, never mind, I’ll do it either way.

A few of you have seen my posts, but I completely missed this thread until just now. I first read Elantris and Soul of the Emperor back a few years ago (at least 3), but only in the last few months dug into the rest of Sanderson's works. Now, I think the only published Cosmere piece I have to read is Sixth of the Dusk, which I am working on, though I haven't touched the non-Cosmere material yet. Really dig the work, and love having a place I can hang out and discuss! Nice to meet everyone!

Uhhh, it's kind of pointless for your friend to argue for paired elements making more sense when it's already been established that alloys are how it works. Brandon has mentioned that he really wanted to use silver in allomancy but he wasn't able to because he'd already settled on pewter as one of the metals (long story, see here) so by now it's locked in that some metals simply don't do anything in the Metallic Arts. As for burning alloys as separate metals, that probably wouldn't work Realmatically. I'm not sure how aware you are of it (it's one of the principles that underlies all the Cosmere works) but in essence, the metal in an alloy would probably 'see' itself as one metal rather than two so there'd be no way to make it burn as distinct elemental metals. You also couldn't get god-metal alloys if the system was designed that way. Not that we know of any more than one of those right now, but the possibility of at least another fifteen atium alloys (sixteen if atium/lerasium does something) is well worth having as a potential plot hook for future stories. Some of those metals are also incredibly rare (like Rhenium) and the viability of a magic system that requires ingesting vast quantities of mercury is... sort of questionable.. The plot developments in the second and third books of the original trilogy where characters discover new metals flow much better when you can say 'I have this known metal (aluminum), I know an alloy of it should produce an effect, let's experiment and see if we can't figure out what it is' instead of having to test literally every possible metal until you find one that doesn't make you sick or kill you when you try to burn it. TLDR: It works perfectly the way it is. Also, welcome to the Shard!

(Edited for error in part D:) I have to, painfully, agree with the Syladin shippers. Here is my evidence. A) That awkward moment when the spring captain said that the bond Kaladin and Syl formed actually *could* be compared to an elopement and that it was indeed a more intimate bond than elopement ever could be. B ) That moment when he sees Shallan macking with Adolin and hold Syl saying that he never loved Shallan anyway--that she reminds him of someone. Syl asks who? And Kaladin reflects on Syl's charming innocence. C) Their relationship is uniquely passionate. While we only really get a good view of two other examples of spren bonding (Ivory and Pattern), Syl has brought Kaladin back from the brink of self destruction...how many times? She has literally been someone for him to live for. That image of her hunting death spren in armor while Kal is recovering from exposure to the high storm comes to mind. D) She is always always described as very feminine and very pretty--even by Adolin... in the cognitive realm...when he thinks he might be in hell LOL. Ivory and Pattern are vaguely male, but mostly they project as gender neutral and inhuman. And not to belabor a point, but on that honor boat A LOT of time is devoted to noting exactly how human the honor spren are. Frankly, I wasn't convinced until the end of Oathbringer. I'm not even sure that this ship is something I want to see (although if Mr. Sanderson wants it to happen, he will find a way to win us all around to his point of view--I think that we all know he really is that good.) l think that it's even possible that Kaladin may even have a relationship with "the wrong person" (not unlike Dalinar with Eevee)... but this has the texture of inevitability about it.

I also was underwhelmed by the big reveal. ok, the part about destroying their previous world is actually relevant, except that we have no clue how that may be; I have the feeling it may be something akin to an overuse of the surges, so just learn to practice sustainable surgebinding. But the "invaders" part, that's really irrelevant. I was born on this land, I worked it, I built my home. Therefore this land is mine. It does not matter that 100 generations ago my great-great-ancestors stole it. Yes, it was wrong, but should I feel responsible for something bad done so long ago just because I have a genetic relation to those people? For that matter, I am the descendant of invaders, because europe was inhabited by neandertals, and then the cro-magnon came and the neandertal disappeared. anyway, it seems also most characters took the new in the same way. except the skybreakers, and they have a close fight with the diagram and the sons of honors for the title of dumbest secret society on roshar. I am a teacher, and yet I cannot help sympathize with you...

Yes, by tried Veil I mean immediately thought to switch to Veil, before realizing what that would mean and abandoning it and being forced into codifying the third personality. She didn't want Adolin to know about Veil, or the Ghostbloods, at that point. I threw in what I did about the Desolations and apocalypse because I see you and others say, "I'm done if such and so," and that's just so far from where I am. I'm a disappointed Shalladin shipper, but I'm all aboard the Stormlight Hype Train and while I've given up on a Sanderson series before (between Well and Hero in the Mistborn trilogy), I lived to regret giving up. But maybe I'll be a little less invested in the interpersonal relationships, and stick to magic and cosmere.

I've actually begun to suspect, especially with all the talk about about how Kaladin spends so much time wallowing on those he could not protect (Anyone who died - Tien, his old squad, bridge four, Elhokar, the singers he walked with), or trying to protect where he isn't wanted (Laral) I think his fourth ideal is going to be more difficult for him. Something like: I will trust those who are capable to protect themselves. I will accept that I cannot protect everyone. I will trust others to protect me I will respect the decisions of those I wish to protect, even if it means withdrawing my protection, so that they can learn to protect themselves. Basically, I think it will come down to something about teaching others to protect themselves, and actually letting them do it, while accepting that they are responsible for their own choices. That whole teach a person fire, rather than giving it. He will have to acknowledge that he can only be in one place at one time, and eventually will have to accept that if he does not teach people to stand on their own and protect themselves, he will never be able to protect everyone he wants to. And part of accepting that will be understanding that letting people protect themselves may end in some unavoidable deaths. This will be really difficult for him to accept, and I think that is why he is having so much trouble with the fourth ideal.

Dividing by zero ...... shattered Adonalsium. We have found the ultimate weapon: Math Problems!!!

"Beware of anyone who says they can tell the future." Yup, that was me. I saw the foreshadowing that Dalinar would be Odium's champion, that Renarin would be killed, and I thought this was going to be an Empire Strikes Back kind of tragedy. But nope! I fell for it hook bait and sinker. I have a confession: I've only read through Words of Radiance once, because I thought it was a huge disappointment. I was in a bit of a black spot, so maybe it was me rather than the book, but that's how it is. This book has definitely made it up to me. I've always been a sucker for redemption arcs. Dalinar's story, whilst feeling a bit contrived to have his memories return so suddenly, was enthralling and justified. It makes you wonder how one man can bear to have the knowledge that they've done such horrible things, and the answer is of course, because they must. Because doing anything else would be lying to themselves. I've missed the Blackthorn side of Dalinar during Words of Radiance, given the ending to Way of Kings, but now I can move on from that as I see the Blackthorn was a genuinely horrible person. I kind of feel like the characters are overshadowed by the worldbuilding. Not necessarily because the character development is bad – it's not, it's excellent – but that it seems to run parallel to the worldbuilding, neither character or worldbuilding affecting one another. At least Adolin has the grace to be intimidated by the vastness of Shadesmar, but Kaladin literally spends the entire time moping, and Shallan just being Shallan, jumping between scholarship, sketching, and immaturity. For the same reason, despite all these huge revelations in the world – Re-Shepir, the Midnight Mother lying in the heart of Urithiru. Sja-Anat, she who corrupts corrupting all and then she might be defecting?? Remember how terrified Shallan was of Shadesmar for the first time? But we as the readers are left to bear the brunt of the shock here, whereas the characters just carry on with the facts, as if it were nothing out of the ordinary. I get that they may be getting used to being surprised, but come on. It's why I was annoyed by the Shalladin shipping from Words of Radiance. Shallan is just not self-aware enough to deserve that potential. When Kaladin jumps in to fight three full Shardbearers, it's amazing, incredible! The next time we see her PoV, she's... texting Adolin. It's like she wasn't even paying attention to the fact an average spearman was fighting Shardbearers. And won. Kaladin sees her strength and somewhat idolises for it, but doesn't see the downsides – but this makes sense, she's a person who doesn't open up much anyway. She does to Adolin, and Adolin fights for her, and its sweet, and it's fitting. But she's still broken, and she's got a long way left to go, but that's okay. That being said, I love her character in Oathbringer. I loved her in Way of Kings, but lost her in Words of Radiance. She just seemed so undeservedly self-assured. People point out the fact she doesn't recognise the privilege she has, and I think that definitely factors into it. Now however, her character flaws are apparent. She lies, and lies, and lies again to get herself out of positions that give her the slightest bit of anxiety. It's a response I think many of us can empathise with. It's why The Girl Who Looked Up is so powerful, as we see her facing that part of her that is so fundamentally her. It's nice to see that she doesn't overcome it just like that as well. Growth, by definition, is a process and not an event. Still interested what Honour's Perpendicularity actually is. I thought it was going to be a Highstorm, and that seems confirmed by Dalinar channeling the Stormfather, yet our characters passed Highstorms, and there wasn't any Highstorm around Jasnah's departure either, which most people take to mean no junction too. Finally, this book cements for me the fact that there's something fundamentally wrong with Odium, realmatically. All the other Shardic intents have an air of neutrality about them. Odium being just hate is unequivocally evil, and the fact that even Odium in-universe tries to escape this by claiming to be passion (which he is clearly not) only confirms this to me.

I think she will serve as an important reminder that the spren have also chosen sides, even if they’re not corrupted. I actually think that’s why she’s there. Yes, it was implied that it might be her order that’s making the others uncomfortable, but Malata’s convo with T, and the others’ trip through Shadesmar, gave us a teaser of spren politics that I hope we learn more of in book 4. Even Timbre alluding to her choice of Listener over Human because of betrayal is interesting here. I’m excited to see how they use her for this, and whether it goes in the direction I expect.

Malata was Taravangian's inside informant. Her Ashspren helped find Dalinar's secrets that caused the collapse of the coalition. She was also the one who unlocked the Urithiru/Kholinar Oathgate letting singers in.

I was zooming through it too fast the first time for emotions to really sink in, but Elhokar's death really forced me to pause for a few minutes. I didn't even think I cared that much, so it was a surprise as much as it was a tragedy that I just... wow. It really got me. Edit: Oh, I totally forgot! I can't believe I forgot this part. At the very end, when Taln was lucid for a bit, and he started talking about how wonderful it was that it had been 4500 years, that it given the world so much time, the time that they needed... Yeah, I cracked there. Actual tears. We don't deserve Taln.

Just got home. Brr, spent about 90 minutes in the cold. And I wouldn't be surprised if there's still people outside queuing! I brought a present for Brandon - a copy of Surely you're joking Mr Feynman! Basically as a thank-you for creating Shallan. She's such a unique character and there's hardly anyone else like her in fiction (Moist von Lipwig from Discworld is a bit similar), and a few months ago I remembered the Feynman book (I had read it about 20 years ago). He's not the same as Shallan (he's a scientist first and an artist second) but he's rather similar at times in all sorts of ways - an early chapter talks about how he stole a door and got away with it by telling the truth Anyway, I managed to get my questions answered. I would have asked more but I was kinda overstaying my welcome.

Thanks Ookla! But yeh - had great fun at the signing, especially in the queue at the start meeting people and discussing the cosmere - many of who are active on here. So hey all! Here is what I asked: following from these answers: Interested to hear what everyone else asked and was told.

That was almost gonna be my question but last minute I changed it. There were like 100 people when I got there but the queue moved quite quickly and it only took an hour but behind me the queue was snaking along corners so that by the end instead of telling people to go round the back the staff were telling us to go a few streets along to get to the end. I was so annoyed that they cancelled the reading but I do agree that the venue was a tad too small. Apparently my suggestion of Brandon standing on a nearby rooftop and shouting his gospel down from the heavens was "impractical" or whatever so the lady I talked to said that next time they'd try and get him a bigger venue. My question was I had so much fun today and I can't believe how long I've gotta wait til I do it again

Thanks! Here it goes then:

Hey, guess who’s an idiot and forgot to type out my WoBs after uploading the audio? (Spoiler Alert: It’s Me) Anyways, here are some of the questions that I asked and the answers that I got.

On a similar note: I started a Way of Kings reread after finishing Oathbringer, and came across Lirin telling Kaladin he couldn't kill to protect, and comparing that to "trying to stop a storm by blowing harder". Which Kaladin does, kinda, in Oathbringer.