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If I report every post about shipping, will you nuke them?

Adolin's in a bad spot, I think we can all agree. He cannot move forward without hurting his house in some way, by either revealing himself as the killer or failing to catch the murderer of a Highprince, giving evidence that Dalinar is incapable of protecting the city he has just discovered. But I have a theory of how Adolin might respond to this in a way that just might be politically savvy enough to work. He admits it. Point blank. He calls for a meeting of the Highprinces to say he's solved the murder. Once they've arrived, he calmly announces that he has not only figured out who killed Sadeas, but has a confession. He then explains that he killed Sadeas. He explains how he ran into Sadeas in the tower alone, and how Sadeas began immediately to tell Adolin about the lies he would begin spreading about house Kholin, about Urithiru. He'll explain that when he asked Sadeas why, Sadeas told him that it was the way things had to be, that it was Dalinar or him. Finally, he will tell them that Sadeas told him of his intent to take everything from his father and his house, as he has tried to do before and had almost killed him in the process. In short, Adolin will tell the truth. Adolin will then let Chaos ensue and all of the Highprinces bluster, the perfect image of calm until Dalinar, feeling betrayed, will ask him why he would take such a drastic step. Adolin will tell him that, according to Alethi tradition, he took this as both an insult and declaration of war on his house, and that under the authority granted him by the boon of the king he engaged Sadeas in a duel to the death. I think that he will then issue a challenge to Amaram, and that if Amaram thinks Adolin went against justice, for Amaram to take up the cause of House Sadeas in the dueling arena and meet him in battle. I think this will appeal to Dalinar, who will be conflicted. It will allow a testing of crimes for both Amaram and Adolin while not testing his own personal loyalties or sense of honor. I also think this will not go well for Adolin. Amaram has Oathrbringer now, and I know that Brandon has said that in WoK prime he had considered making Amaram a duel wielding Shardbearer. This gives him not only the means to do so but the opportunity to show that he's a force to be reckoned with. Amaram won't of course kill Adolin, but if he leaves him without shards and leaves house Kholin humiliated after all of Adolin's victories it would go a long way towards deepening the conflict inside of Urithiru. Plus it would be a really storming cool fight to watch.

[ Spoilers from the first 30 chapters of Oathbringer currently released ] So with the "final Desolation" pretty much officially underway as of the end of WoR, the main question going through my mind has been: how the hell can Odium actually lose??? Think about it. We know from Dalinar's visions and various other lore elements that in the past each Desolation nearly wiped out humankind. In fact, the justification for the current level of technology (or lack thereof) is that civilization is basically pushed back to the bronze age with each Desolation because of how devestating they are. And now consider this: that was with the full, organized strength of the Knights Radiant. Literal armies of them. Plus the Heralds! Now we have the Final Desolation coming, and so far there's only a handful of fledgling Knights Radiant, none of whom even have their Shardplate yet. Not only that, but the existing nations are super divided, and at the start of Oathbringer it looks as though it will not be easy to unite even a small number of them. So how can Odium screw this up? How could this be even a close fight? It seems to me that the only possibility is that the Listeners (at least some of them) are going to fight with humans. This is being set-up already at the beginning of Oathbringer, where we see groups of former parshmen slaves, healed by the Everstorm, basically just on the run. Not trying to attack, not out to kill humans in vengeance even (though they have real cause to want revenge). Just trying to survive, and most importantly not yet infused with any type of Voidspren (at least not in any obvious way). We also know that the Listeners way back made a choice to cut themselves off from their gods (Odium and co), restricting their forms drastically but earning freedom. They assassinated Gavilar in an effort to stop their "gods" from returning. They don't want to be Voidbringers, and I can totally see at least some of them fighting to maintain their freedom, refusing to be used by Odium. This could be what is "different" about this Desolation, the edge that humanity needs to balance the scales just enough to have a hope of winning. It would also fit with the themes established throughout the Cosmere books (spoilers for Mistborn series coming). We know from The Hero of Ages that the Deepness was in fact the mists. But more than that, it was Preservation's power tainted by Ruin. Ruin caused the Snapping process to be more brutal than it needed, killing people instead of just awakening their powers, covering the land and blocking out the Sun when it wasn't meant to, etc... This was Preservation's actual power, but Ruin managed to influence it. This shows that the influence of the Shards is not always rigid and distinct. There is overlap and intermingling, where multiple Shards use the same basic phenomenon. That is what the Thrill has to be. Dalinar's first revealed vision, where he fights Midnight Essence, with a poker. The Knight explains that any who feel the desire to fight should be compelled to go to Aletha. The Thrill USED TO BE a force for good, a way of telling people that they were destined to fight evil alongside the Knights (either as a full member or as a "squire." Since then, it has been twisted by Odium into something that makes people lust for battle and death. And without actual monsters around, they turn on each other, or make a game out of war, or almost kill their own brother. Odium is doing the same thing that Ruin did. But maybe it can go both ways. I've seen others here comment that it is odd that the Everstorm seems to heal the parshmen, making them whole again by reforging their Connection (incidentally, because of how we know this works from the second Mistborn series, this explains why they all speak unaccented Alethi). This seems like a very un-Odium thing for the Everstorm to do, especially since they do not seem to be possessed by Voidspren yet. What if Cultivation pulled the same kind of trick? Twisting the Everstorm just enough that it healed parshmen without automatically dominating them, giving them at least a chance to resist, run, be free, what have you? We know from the Jasnath-Hoid dialogue that the Everstorm is "new" or at least working differently than how the Desolations worked in the past. Perhaps the reason is that this time there are forces other than Odium at work on it. There are even hints about this in the depiction of the Midnight Mother. During Shallan's interactions, it is revealed that she was created to sow chaos, but that over time she became curious. Yes, it is a twisted, warped curiosity. But consider her actions at Urithiru. Did she flood the tower with monsters? Did she set about assassinating actual targets? No, she just copied what humans were already doing. Does this seem particularly effective? Or does it seem like a lost, broken creature trying to comprehend these creatures through the only relationship she understands: violence? My point is just this: she has actually changed since her creation. Just like the Everstorm is different this time. Just like maybe the Listeners aren't behaving the way Odium might want this time around. A big theme so far is how the good guys, left to their own devices, become corrupt and fell. But I think Brandon is hinting that maybe, just maybe, the reverse is true for the villains. Odium is banking on how time changes humans, makes them forget why they fought and abandon what they once were. But wouldn't it be poetic if the same was also happening to his forces? The Unmade have changed, however slightly. The Listeners seem to have changed as well. And maybe this time around they will surprise him, make him think that he could actually lose...

Night 7 He only had one option left. The remainder of the bridge crew was chasing him. He had to run. Run as far away as he could. Perhaps he could manage to escape away from this death trap. He crept around a building, eyeing the road that led out of the War camp. There were soldiers patrolling, if not very many. But they would most certainly question him about what he was up to. Unfortunately, he didn't have much time. He could hear his bridge somewhere behind him, looking for him. If the soldiers got even a whiff of him and went on alert, he would die. Probably get strung up in the next highstorm or just get killed on the spot. But he couldn't live any longer in this mess. People were dying of poison like chulls in a whitespine den. It was all sorts of bad. He needed to escape. So he ran. A minute. 2 minutes. Out of the warcamp. Had he escaped? "UMPH!" The man groaned as he was stabbed by a spearman, a guard who had been alerted. The man had a minute to consider whether this was a better death by poison. Perhaps, it would have just been a better idea to never have done that lighteyed woman. Darkness was lynched! He was a Unlucky Unremarkable! Darkness(4): BR, Drake, Arinian, randuir PM's are open. Player list:

Oh come on. I know my view of spoilers is a bit peculiar, but here it goes: if it is well written (which it will be) it won't matter if we have the whole book spoiled cover to cover. We will still love it, for the feelings, the emotions, the characters, etc. Been perfectly honest WoK and WoR are books that I love more every time I read them, so I don't see why OB will be any different .

Oh c'mon ! We probably got more spoilers disscusing in the chapters threads every week than this review ! I think the most spoilery thing was the mention of something big happen somewhere near the half. But let's be real, it was a quite harmless review. If you are so sensitive to consider those spoilers, I don't think you should be on the internet so close the launch of the book. Sorry if I sound mean or harsh, but I really think the review was great. It hit its purpouse, for me at least : to raise more excitement and anticipation without giving anything away, but at the same time saying something more than just "Oathbringer is great" (which we all now it will be) . I don't consider it said more than a blurb would say.

Crispy Gerbil, I'm going to be honest and say my brother gave me that particular idea.

Is there any chance we could have 16 more upvotes every day of the first week?

Hi, this is my first (and possibly only) post. I have lurked for quite a while, and I never really intended to post anything, but then I saw this thread, and then I heard "Sound of Silence" by Paul Simon, and, well....... Tada: Warning, Edgedancer spoilers

Man, I thought I was spoiler sensitive but you guys have me beat handily.

Something else to consider is that Taravangian is working off of the premise that he has been granted the "capacity" to preserve humankind. From his perspective, this means intellect and logic unfettered by emotions. He still has regrets but his actions are not determined by them, they are a consequence of his moral choices, but irrelevant to the actual decision-making process (which is why he chides Dalinar for suggesting that the decision should be made to avoid those regrets). But from WoR we know that in him, intelligence seems to be inversely proportional to compassion, in a way that isn't necessarily true in other people. On his most "brilliant" days he makes ludicrous "logical" choices that could never actually work. But he doesn't seem to question whether this means that other coldly logical decisions (like the horrific Death Rattle factory, and his decision relating to the parable) might also be flawed. I wonder if he has misinterpreted "capacity." Because that wording could mean either "intellectual capacity" OR "capacity for empathy and compassion." Maybe he has the whole thing backwards, and is "stupid" days are the ones where he actually has a greater capacity to choose the right path and make moral decisions, which is ultimately what the world needs to survive.

But pls send it to me first. For... research purposes? I'm totally documenting the environmental impact of orbital tactical nukes.

Chaos, Destroyer of Worlds and Spoilers.

Interesting parallels between the 3 men speaking to Dalinar. One seeks to restore his religion, one seeks to save humanity, and one seeks to save creation itself*. Wit seemed to take particular offense at Amaram; yet he is willing to watch a planet be destroyed to accomplish his goals. I wounder how he would treat Taravangian? *Wild guess on my part since Hoid's true goals are unknown.

And for the record, my shippy friends, I do love you and the diversity of loves for these glorious books is what makes this place so good for so many. I mean, some people haven't spent hundreds of hours this year reading WoBs. Baffling So say we all.

It could be an explicit and completely gratuitous sex scene. I mean, not really. But I'm going to pretend that's what it is, because it will stall my brain from reasoning out who's at most risk of dying, etc. Only 8 more days!

I recommend reading Warbreaker because it was written as a prequel/background for some characters that make appearances in Stormlight!

Easy. All of them.

I see, that everybody seems to identify the three figures on the walls as depictions of Honor, Cultivation and *ahem* Somebody Else. However it's only part of the murals, and the rest of them are specifically spren-themed. In fact the rest of them are to be the types of spren, that make bonds with Knight Radiants: Cryptics, Windspren and… the Stormfather. Yes, unsurpisingly he is there on the murals: “Depictions of the Almighty in his traditional form as a cloud bursting with energy and light” - exactly the image of the Stormfather. That means that the “woman in the shape of a tree” seems to be how the Nightwatcher is looking. As Shallan thinks about “pagan symbols” just after mentioning the tree-shaped woman, there is apparently an widespread belief among the population of Roshar, depicting Cultivation in just this form, just like it's the popular belief that Honor looks like a “cloud bursting with energy and light”, that formed the Stormfather's image as such. It will mean that the Nightwatcher would be shaped by a corresponding belief. Now the third figure. We know that there are only 3 spren that make Bonds with Bondsmiths, and together with Stormfather and Nightwatcher it's most likely to find the image of the third Great Spren, who is also most likely the image of a god as believed by large enough percentage of Rosharians. And it's not Odium, since I cannot believe, that an Odium-shaped spren will be so much in the ranks of the Radiants. And in fact there is another significant religion on Roshar, we know about. The Iriali and their One. A religion that clearly refers to some significant worldhopping experience in the mythical past. Doesn't it strike anybody as quite fitting, that the One's depiction would coincide with the worldhopping image from the pool of Elantris?

You should really put that in a proper spoiler tag. You are also partially wrong here, so Mistborn Spoilers Ah, more disagreement. We have it more or less confirmed by Taravangian and Brandon that the Thrill is tied to Nergaoul, one of the Unmade. I don't think the Unmade were ever a force for good, or (assuming they were something else before and got corrupted by Odium, a theory I do not support) that they had the powers they presently have. Also, have this: I think this combined with the fact that KR don't feel the Thrill should preclude the possibility of the Thrill being in any way related to Honor or his Knights. Re-Shephir appears to be sentient, but not fully sapient. There's an important distinction that needs to be made because of that. She was not created, but ordered to sow chaos, to confuse and destroy men. She has the ability to imitate, to learn, but was forced to only use it in a specific way. As any story/movie about AI will tell you, something with the ability to learn and without restrictions on its actions can be unpredictable and dangerous. Given her imprisonment, I think Odium may have set her aside and directed his influence elsewhere. Now she is free of her prison and her master. She is using that ability to learn as she sees fit, albeit colored heavily by that murderous past. I don't think she has changed as a result of a Shard's influence, but from a lack of Shardic influence. I'd consider this to be closer to the real Re-Shephir, without Odium's direct control guiding her actions. Also bear in mind that she was trapped for up to two millennia. Confinement for that long a period will change anyone and anything. This is amusing to me. This line is the premise(or point) behind the theory, even if the theory itself goes in a little different direction. I agree with this line, while disagreeing with most every piece of evidence in the theory.

Interesting comparison. Have an upvote! I think the attitude of Amaram is very, very different. I think Amaram seeks to excuse himself in that instance with Dalinar. Dalinar has made mistakes but he recognizes them as mistakes. He seeks a better way, and does not settle for "the ends justify the means." Amaram also tries actively to proclaim himself a better man than he knows is, and he knows what he is doing is wrong, which is why he hides both. He knows it is wrong, but tries to convince himself he is justified. Vargo is ... well, he's an interesting study. He knows what he does is wrong, but claims he does it for a greater purpose. However, this has led him to commit horrifying atrocities. The slaughter he has perpetuated and continues to enforce means that he does not have any misgivings about the ultimate morality of his actions. Because of the Diagram, which he worships as holy, he feels compelled to play these actions out to their end to prevent the destruction of the world. He does not justify his actions. Taravangian fully believes that if there is an afterlife, his reward will be damnation, but he chooses his current path in spite of that. Hoid, I think, sees things on a different playing-field than these two men. He recognizes the things that are at stake, and he is willing to sacrifice for what he "needs." I think ultimately Hoid's intentions are good, but I also want to point out that he does not have the capacity to directly harm anyone [very citation, much source, wow]. I think he sees Amaram as a coward, Taravangian as a fool, and Dalinar as a broken man striving to become better. Perhaps he honors that because he himself lacks the capacity to grow [speculation, no source available].

We can do that.

Re-Shephir's purpose is to somehow get into Shinovar and find a chicken so she can at long last complete her mission to tar and feather someone.

Since so many people seem intent on matching the Unmade with Heralds or Surges or whatever, I thought I would bring this forward. I wish I could remember or find the WOB I think supports this, but each Shard has a number that is special to it, or something. For Preservation, it's 16. For Honor it's 10. And for Odium, it's 9. This is why there are 9 Unmade, and we'll see more 9 showing up as we learn more about Odium. EDIT: And why not add a crackpot theory while I'm at it? Adonalsium split into 16 numbered Shards. One through Sixteen. Another guess is that Autonomy is number One also.

I've just finished reading Words of Radiance and plan to read Oathbringer when it comes out. A friend recommended Stormlight only, and now that I have I feel like I've ruined the order in which to read all of Sanderson's other work for the cosmere - all the reading orders have books before and in-between TWOK and WOR. So, can anyone help me out in determining what books to read next, in order to gain a greater understanding of the cosmere and so I don't miss out on re-occurring characters?

You all are killing me! Have a few non-Cosmere for juxtaposition. The Eye of the World The Great Hunt The Dragon Reborn The Shadow Rising The Fires of Heaven The Lord of Chaos A Crown of Swords The Path of Daggers That's all I've got in me for now. Here's another completely unrelated summary. The Bartimaeus Trilogy

"Atium," from "A Mistborn on the Roof" (a Brandon Sanderson production)

I mean, there's a couple problems with this. I don't think T has ever referred to the Diagram as his god, so putting quotes around it is misleading. He doesn't worship it, but he does follow it, so it would be more proper to call it his scripture and the Old Magic his god. Just because we don't know what T's end goal is doesn't mean he doesn't have one. He's remarkably well informed compared to many of the other characters, but he's also secretive. Honestly, we haven't seen enough of him to really state what his endgame might be. Finally, labeling T as a religious fanatic when we know so little just seems like a setup. The little bit we have seen of him has been divisive, but we haven't seen enough that it should be easy to draw rock solid conclusions. Brandon has given us conflicted characters time and again. MB:TFE At this point, we've seen T doing the wrong things, but we haven't seen all that much. There's plenty of time for a change of heart and noble sacrifice. There's still time for the man who wanted the power to save the world to find a way to do it.

Even on Earth where wood is common and easily available, musical instruments are usually made with the highest grade cuts of rare and expensive varieties (eg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosewood). So I think we can still have cellos - but the best sounding ones probably have to be imported from the Shin. More expensive than the wood would be getting enough horsehair to make a violin or cello bow. Unlike the instrument itself, that needs replacing on a regular basis, and we keep hearing about how expensive horses are on Roshar. Ryshadium-hair bows, though, anyone? I imagine the Listener drums as some kind of clay pot instrument like an udu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5QCRenYQCo

I did manage some more writing in the past couple of days, but they're not actually making it into that scene. While I'm going to count them for nano, they're not showing up at the current point in the story. Current update: 1300 words.

I was going to hold off on Oathbringer, but after reading this review I can feel my self control crumbling like the proverbial house of cards.

On Saturday, I get to work a 4:30-8:30 shift. To put this in perspective, for the past 2 months, I've been only working closing shifts for the nights. On Saturdays, we close at 10:00. Closing ideally takes a hour, so I generally get out at 11:00. I get to go home at 8:30 instead of 11:00

It's from Brandon. Each Book will cover a Flashback Sequence. Each Book will focus on a KR Order. I'd say that the Order it focuses on is the one we learn the most about in it, but Brandon might have actual criteria we don't know about.

Here is a link to Tor's non spoiler review of Oathbringer. Enjoy.

Ambition would never stand for that.

People have primarily been using that line to imply that the author is Vorin, which is not the same thing as saying the book is written for a Vorin audience. It's like saying a book where they spell color as "colour" means that the author is automatically British, where it could just as easily be a Chinese fellow who wanted to publish in Britain. The way most people see it, it's gotta be a Vorin figure. The way I worded the light-bulb moment, even Szeth or the Aziri Prime could theoretically have written it.

The standalone also includes Lift's interlude from Words of Radiance.

When you create a diversion, do it well.

Day 7 Kohl did not last very long. He was stabbed as soon as no one was looking. And not only that, but his stuff contained some incriminating firemarks. He had been corrupt. ------ Meanwhile, An Explosive Gerbil looked into the warm campfire he had created. The flamespren danced among the flames. He had always like burning things. It comforted him to see the wood crackle and emit heat, so dangerous and so beautiful. Fire did not betray you, unless you were dumb with it. He reached out with a stick to prod the coals. Something kicked him when he was off balance. He flailed for a moment, but the kick had been perfectly timed. He tried to turn and see who had kicked him, but the fire blinded him. He collapsed into the fire, which he had tended to an impressive size. The warmth happily consumed The Explosive Gerbil. The Explosive Gerbil became the Crispy Gerbil that night. Megasif was Assassinated! He was a Tough Spy Con Artist! Straw was killed! He was a Unlucky Worldsinger! There is no Unremarkable vote. PM's are closed. Player list:

What I think is really awesome about Dalinar's discussion with Taravangian is how it neatly sets up the crux of Kaladin's upcoming moral dilemma. We know the Listeners are not inherently evil, and the escaped parshmen he is travelling with seem very sympathetic. They are going out of their way not to hurt people, despite their understandable rage at humans. Now obviously we don't know where they're going yet, or what they're planning. But let's assume that not every Listener is going to be okay with the idea of being possessed again. Eshonai and her folk were basically tricked into it, so presumably others might resist the idea as well. This leaves Dalinar and friends (but Kaladin in the short term) with a moral quandry. Any freed parshmen they meet COULD become a voidbringer. If they are taken in as refugees and then decide to accept an evil spren and transform in the middle of a human force, that could be very dangerous. So it's like the parable. You have a group of people, with no way of telling who might be dangerous in the future, but knowing that any of them COULD be murderers. So do you kill all the Parshendi/Listeners? Do you take in those who are fleeing like Kaladin has met, and risk that wannabe voidbringers are lurking among them? I could be wrong but it seems like this scene has brilliantly set up what I expect will be a major moral issue within this book, when so many assumptions about the Voidbringers are being challenged and complicated.

Quick Mafia Championship Update For those who didn't follow the Mafia Championship to the end, Dels from GameFAQs ended up winning the fourth season. He will be receiving a winner's certificate signed by Dmitry Davidoff, the creator of Mafia. Hydra Event 2017 - Interested? Last year 220 players from dozens of different communities participated in the first ever cross-community Hydra Event. It was a big success and people have been wanting another one, so... It's finally here! If you don't know what "hydra" means, it's when two people share the same account (two heads). So the concept is that each participating community can send multiple hydras if they want, each consisting of two players, which tends to make the game more fun in addition to making it easier to be active since two players are playing on the same account. Sign-ups will be open for next couple of weeks. Those signing up will receive a link to a Doodle + a Google Survey so that they can be slotted into a game that suits their availability and preferences wrt game size and type. If you'd like to play, just find a partner and lemme know either here or in the thread below. More info here: http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/12461-Hydra-Event-2017

If this was Wheel of Time, Kaladin would be dead but we wouldn't find out for 6 books, and when we did find out it would be in the glossary.

Definitely not. That will only matter up through the first week. Three months from now maintaining that is not practical. It was difficult enough having two boards with Bands of Mourning and Secret History. No one put things in the right spots. We will have separate squeeing topics per part (for parts two, three, and four, and a whole book reactions topic) if you want to react to it, but I think multiple forums is overkill. We will link these topics from the forum main page if you don't want to click this forum and be spoiled by topic titles. I think this is a pretty good compromise.

Hmmm. I hadn't thought of that aspect, but I like it with the Cusicesh idea. A multitude of faces representing the experience of many, joined in One.

Provided DID exists of course, which is argued. I do not believe she has DID. DID is caused by persistent, continuous, long term physical and/ or sexual abuse in childhood. Shallan is A) too old to start the developement of the illness (she would have had to start the dissasociation much younger) and B: does not have a history of childhood physical and/or sexual abuse. Considering how much Brandon cares about getting mental illness correct I doubt he’d make such obvious mistakes. Especially since he went out of his way to note that Shallan was NOT physically abused. Shallan also lacks the loss of agency or control; she does not forget basic facets of everyday life; her different ‘characters’ are created via outside influence: her abilities and Stormlight. She knowingly chooses a role. Most importantly, she does not experience distress as a result. Basically, she lacks ALL DSM criteria for the disease, so she does not have it. That does not mean she is not dissasociating, but DID is hardly the ONLY dissasociative disorder. Shallan has dissasociative amnesia already. The goal of therapy with DID is the crafting of a whole, stable, identity. The goal with DA is to recall the lost memories. My belief is that the ‘Shallan’ we see most of the time is not the real Shallan. This ‘Shallan’ is the role she has played for most of her life, caused by her disassociation from her memories. Those memories shaped the real Shallan. So what we are seeing is long time fugue state as a result of dissasociative amnesia. What Shallan is unconsciously coming to realize is that the person she thought she was was never really her. This is why she paints her own face on like a mask; she is coming to realize that this ‘Shallan’ is not, and never was, the person she is. The mask is the Shallan who did not kill her mother, something that Shallan can no longer disassociate from. Recognizing this is an important step toward toward integrating the person she thought she was and the person she actually is. Brandon’s many references to perception just makes this more evident to me.

I’m not touching the morality debate with a 10 foot stick but I did want to applaud all of those debating it in such a respectful manner.

I'm gonna put it here too, as that's relevant

Could also be more Vasher and Nightblood. There's a chance Vasher helps Shallan interpret her drawings (returned can do that), which would be out of the blue for someone who didn't read Warbreaker.

To me, Elend is blond and Kelsier has brown hair, not the other way around.