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  1. I agree 100% with everything in this post. Shallan's was the most infuriating for me: "Hey Kaladin, you were forced to act as bait for the Parshendi and run into a bloodbath every day or two, were strung up in a highstorm for surviving, forced to practically live in damnation for an entire year, and watch hundreds of your friends get killed like flies, all because you were enslaved by a corrupt lighteyes. After this, you passed up the opportunity to escape in order to rescue a brightlord that Sadeas had allied with, and actually succeeded in the rescue. You finally got your freedom, but chose to protect said brightlord in order to ensure that your men would retain their freedom. You fought 4 shardbearers in order to save my fiance even though he acted like a complete jerk to you, and put up a better fight than any normal human should have been able to - and were thrown in jail because of it. Plus, I stole your boots. However, there is no reason for you to be so hostile towards us lighteyes. You are just plain spiteful!" Dalinar's was also a head-banger: "Hey Kaladin, surviving the highstorm and the bridgecrew was impressive, and rescuing me should not have been possible. You drove off the assassin in white and survived a 100-foot drop, and were able to recognize his presence and evacuate the palace before he attacked. But there's absolutely no way that you can be telling the truth about Amaram. He's obviously a much better man for me to crown head of the Knights Radiant. But I still demand absolute loyalty of you, even though I'm betraying you like the other lighteyes." and then after the chasms: "Amaram, apologize for what you did!" Really, Dalinar, really? Elhokar definitely had the best apology: "You're special, Kaladin. I stopped seeing those twisted symbols as soon as you came. As Dalinar said, you fought off the Assassin in White. You've done the impossible more times than I have been able to do the possible. You're a hero. You've done things that no man should have been able to do, and I demanded you to be executed for them. That was so, so stupid of me. I did the completely wrong thing, and I know it. I completely ruined what should have been a glorious opportunity for you." Also, Adolin's u-turn after the duel was about as good an apology as he could have given.
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  2. It's worth noting that those are all examples of Lighteyes apologizing to dark-eyed Kaladin. Contrast with the following scene: Jasnah also discusses apologizing in TWoK. Despite the lesson of WoR being 'don't be prejudiced against lighteyes', Kaladin really does have a point about how lighteyes treat darkeyes, even the 'good' lighteyes. In particular, lighteyes tend to treat Kaladin as furniture: So I'm not really sure the issue is about apologies specifically, but rather the difference in social status. Shallan apologizes for Navani's mistake. Even then, Navani's 'apology' to Shallan is a lot more heart-felt than any that Kaladin gets. The whole 'don't be prejudiced against lighteyes' thing becomes somewhat of a Broken Aesop given that Kaladin really has a good point about how lighteyes generally treat darkeyes. Dalinar does say that: and Elhokar's apology appears to be a step along that path, though how that'll progress given that everyone will think Kaladin was always 'really' a lighteyes is questionable. Still, it seems like a step in the right direction; keep in mind that book 2 is only about two months in terms of time. tl;dr - it seems like the apology issue is really more indicative of the more fundamental lighteyes/darkeyes issue, and even the protagonist lighteyes are susceptible to it; Elhokar's apology (with Dalinar's speech) seems to indicate that progress is being made on that front, though.
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  3. Is it just me or do Lighteyes have no idea what a real apology actually involves? I was thinking of Dalinar and Shallan when I came up with this but Elhokar and Amaram both provided an interesting counterpoint to them as I thought more on it. So I guess you can call this a thread about the philosophy of apologies instead of just Lighteyes as the title suggests but it does contain WOR spoilers so here it should live. (PS there are a few Wheel of Time spoilers at the end too.) It started when I connected Shallan and Dalinar’s apologies to Kaladin together. First off Shallan claims to have apologised to Kaladin, when by my reading she didn’t really, then later Dalinar states “I believe an apology is due” but does not really deliver one himself. At first I thought he was referring to the apology that he himself owed to Kaladin but he apparently just meant that Amaram should deliver a simple ‘Sorry I murdered your men, mutilated your face and made you a slave’ (which admittedly he then did.) Shallan’s apology was pretty lacking by my standards. Kaladin (rightfully) called her out on the way she stole his boots then sighed and told her he was not holding a grudge over it and that she was not as bad as others. - “Not as bad as the others? What a delightful compliment. Well, let’s say you’re right. Perhaps I am an insensitive rich woman. That doesn’t change the fact that you can be downright mean and offensive, Kaladin Stormblessed” It was her next line that confused me - “I apologize, and all I get in return is a shrug?” I had to reread it looking for the apology, maybe it’s just me but as apologies go that was… not one. (his was closer) Dalinar was better in that his actions spoke of apology but he really should have said the words (Words are important on Roshar). He needed to acknowledge out loud that he more or less dismissed what he did not want to hear and that he was wrong to do so. Doing things correctly eventually is not an apology, admitting fault to yourself and those wronged is. Initially I was simply amused that he said an apology was due then failed to actually deliver one. Combined with Shallan’s failure I thought of this thread but we can look a bit further into it by using Amaram and Elhokar. Amaram. Now he did apologise, in the strictest sense of the word, the only problem was the sincerity of it. He was caught out in one direct lie and had to admit the truth, he apologised with all formality and admitted that he was sorry for what he did. The only problem being that his sorrow was in no way proportional to his sin, he may actually regret that innocent men were killed but he admits that this was not as important to him as gaining Shards ‘for the greater good’ and that he would do it again in a heartbeat. It is the forced apology that a child gives when caught out and made to apologise, an insincere formality. In his later viewpoint he makes it clear that his only real regret was not killing Kaladin too. (I think that once Amaram had confessed what he had done before witnesses Dalinar should have demanded he immediately surrender his Plate and Blade. What else could Amaram have done? It would have gone a long way towards Dalinar's apology) Elhokar is the only one who makes a real job of it, though he does not say the words ‘I’m sorry’ he does say what matters. He admits that he was wrong and he admits why he did it, he does this both to himself and to the person that he wronged. He humbles himself, he explains his hopes and his (many) faults and even asks for help in doing what is right. Of course he is drunk, in vino veritas as they say. A bewildered Kaladin shoots him down but he is still determined to figure how to do things better. You could also argue that there is strength in not saying ‘I’m sorry’ because when you formalise an apology too much you run the risk of doing it simply to clear your own conscience by getting forgiveness. The Wheel of Time is also good for looking at apologies specifically Elayne, Nynaeve and Egwene’s apologies to Mat. Let’s be honest, they each owed him big time for both rescuing them and for their treatment of him afterwards. Elayne and Nynaeve both get called out on their behaviour by Birgitte and Aviendha and made to apologise but as with Amaram above these apologies are completely insincere and only done with extreme reluctance. Elayne only regrets that she has somehow disappointed Aviendha and Nynaeve is… Nynaeve. Neither truly regrets their actions and their apologies are simply expected formality. It is only later that they work out Mat’s value as a person (and a friend) and they both make it up to him, Elayne in the way she treats him when they meet up again in Andor and Nynaeve in defending him when Tuon insults him (specifically mentioning the rescue). Both girls made a reluctant apology then backed it up later with actions, justifying their growth. Egwene on the other hand never apologises for any of her actions, she doesn’t learn to be a better person she learns to be an Aes Sedai. Perhaps if she had made friends willing to call her out more often (she sadly lost Aviendha to Elayne in that regard) she would not have been the only main character to… well, you know.., karma for not growing. (um, that is that she wouldn’t have… not that others would too). Thoughts?
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  4. Let me be the first to say... HE'S PAHN KAHL!!! GET HIM!!!
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  5. On the matter of how everyone kept being surprised when Kaladin spoke up during planning sessions: It was my interpretation while reading that they were rather justified in their surprise. Kaladin is, on the whole, very very bad at being a bodyguard, in the sense that he does not really behave in the "fade into the background and do your job professionally" fashion which we associate with the job. The original head of Elhokar's guard (forgive me, I forget the name) was lighteyed and was not in the habit of speaking during the conversations of his employers. He was also shown in the books to maintain a consistent upright posture and unobtrusiveness which Kaladin "lean-on-wall-and-wander" never really mastered. Kaladin was not merely acting outside the expectations of a darkeye, but outside the expectations of his role as a bodyguard, perhaps quite inappropriately so. Dalinar even calls him out on it when Kaladin first tells him about Amaram. On Dalinar's apology: I honestly don't see Dalinar having anything to apologize for here. I don't fault him for how he responded to Kaladin's claims, and in fact find his response rather praiseworthy. Not only did Dalinar not immediately dismiss/denounce Kaladin for slandering his close friend, but he also actually investigated the claim and even went so far as to orchestrate a rather complicated (and quite personally inconvenient, since he had to hide the Shardblade and pretend to be sick for a week) sting on Amaram. He acted above and beyond the call here, and needn't apologize for reacting reasonably to Kaladin's, let's admit, rather absurd claims.
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  6. So.. at this point there are so many societies, factions and agendas that it seems almost every interesting character is hiding something which again is only hiding something which is... you get the point. A character I haven't really read much about here (I hope I didn't miss it) is Sebarial - well, actually him and his mistress combined. I found them extremely interesting. He gives off a very Hoid-ish feel. Which I guess is easily accomplished by being witty, laid back and enjoying to see others struggle for words. Anyways, as far as the Highprinces we know go he's one of the rather entertaining ones. And he seems rather smart on top of it. So yes, I do think there's more to him - whatever that may be. He knows to well how to keep appearances (I mean who the hell chills out during an upcoming Everstorm?) Any thoughts? Oh, and can anyone remember/quote what Jasnahs notes say about him?
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  7. UnOfficial Write Up Joe sat at his table, Swirling his Soda. His attack on Dane hadn’t worked, He’d been sure he was the Coinshot, but it was Meta Apparently. He looked around the Room, there was still significant Suspicion on Mabi, and he could probably get her Lynched, thus removing that Problem. Though Gamma would also have to be dealt with soon. Where is he anyway? There he was, talking to Lents? What did he want with the Psychopath? Did he Suspect him? Maybe, Lents was Suspicious, Somehow being Here by Proxy when his body wasn’t here, but somewhere else. Gamma Stood up, shaking hands with Lents, then Strode over to the Corner Table where Joe Sat. “Mind if I sit down?” Gamma didn’t seem to be at ease today. he seemed Angry, but Resolute. “Sure, Do you want a Drink? I’, sure I could get one of the others to be Helpful enough to bring one over.” Joe was very good at Soothing, too good. “No, I’m here on Buisness.” Gamma looked down at the table Bitterly. “Well, crap. Seeking results are in. I didn't expect that one. Good Job, Joe. I really didn't suspect you at all.” Joe froze, “Why did they Seek me? They Trusted me, Now what, I can’t kill him in plain Sight!” Suddenly, Joe realized that he was talking out Loud. He stared at Gamma, who was staring back in Surprise. “Wait, you are Spiked? The Plan worked? Huh, we never even suspected you, but you hadn’t been seeked. Well, Sorry Joe, but it hast to be this way.” Gamma stood up, and strode to the Center of the room. “Everyone! Listen Up! With unsuccessful results from last nights actions, we were left with only Joe, Mabi, and Lents as possible suspects. So, I talked to all three of you letting you know we successfully Seeked you as the Spiked last night. This was a lie. But we knew at least one of you would either straight up confess, or make it easier to determine who it was. Thank you, Joe, for confessing. You did have most of us convinced in the Trust you were clean, so good job on that. I apologize for all the innocents that were taken out by the Trusts actions, but Coinshooting suspects was another way we had to 'verify' peoples roles... just in a more permanent way. Your sacrifices were not in vain, and with everyone's help we were able to finally Find the Last Spiked.” The Room silenced, then Everyone turned to Joe, who sat Scowling in the Corner. Then Chidden stood up. “Joe, I never suspected you to be the Last Spiked, But I am a Hero! I’m the Seeker of Blackwater, and I vote Gamma for Mayor!” The Crowd cheered this last bit, and Gamma stood up again. “I, Gamma, first of my name, Ironborn Lurcher and Mayor Candidate of the Village of Blackwater, do sentence Joe the Soother to be keelhauled until death, as is the only punishment for a traitor so heinous." Joe rose to his feet among the Throng. “Chidden, you little Runt, We knew you were a Seeker from Day one. Why did you think I made yo my Apprentice? If you hadn’t had your Friends to help you, I would have killed you after Dyrii died. And Now, I’m going to Kill you all.” With that, Joe Flared Brass, letting loose a massive sooth, targeting the whole area. The cheers stopped in their throats; No emotion meant no motivation to do anything, including protecting yourself. “You thought you could kill me?” He Ripped open his Shirt, revealing not one, but four Spikes. “I was born a Soother, and was given the power of four more. I can Sooth greater the the Lord Ruler himself! I can make it so no one in this room does anything. I have you in my Mercy, but I have none.” Joe walked slowly towards the Men. “So now what? Oh wait, no emotion means no Talking. I Think I’ll start with Gamma first, once the Lurcher’s unable to Interfere, I’ll finish off my Apprentice.” Joe pulled an Obsidian Dagger from his Boot, and Thrust it into Gamma’s Throat. “I should have done this Days ago. “ Joe’s Eyes burned with Rage and Madness. A pewter mug flew across the Room, Directly into Joe’s Throat. “Gah! Wha-” He fell to his knees, unable to breath or Talk. Meta Walked out of the Crowd, and knelt next to Gamma’s Corpse. ”I’m sorry old Friend. Now Joe, you might be wondering How I escaped your Soothing, It’s Simple! I’ve been wearing an Aluminum Hat to keep Bad Ideas from entering My Brain! And getting killed by you Was a Bad Idea.” Joe glared at him, but then fell backwards, dead from lack of Air. Chidden stared at the Corpses in Shock, now that the soothing had Worn off. “But, what do we do now? Gamma’s Dead, and so is most of everybody Else.” Meta shook his head “We Mourn for the Dead, and Celebrate the Living. Come on, this Inn hast to have some drinks left somewhere.” The village murmured in agreement and carried the Bodies to the Grave yard. Baldrick sat in the Middle of the Now empty Inn, staring Morosely at the Door, while two Ghosts argued above Him. “Da’ it Joe! I told ye te Sooth tha dog of ahl emo'shuns bu' ret'urn'in' 'ome. He know's tha way.” “And I told you, I didn’t know where his Home was, and He won’t Stop following me!” ======================================================================= Gamma Fiend was the Village Lurcher! The Only Joe was the Spiked Soother! Congratulations on the Win Village! Joe was the Last Spiked! And Here’s Joe Coinshot Death Scene: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EbWTMj6RaO7as3EAXUX7iceAgQc2hQrNSzXACercg4o/edit?usp=drive_web EDIT: Wait what? I let Gamma read it, and He Posts it While I'm reading an Email? And I changed it To meta, not Mabi.
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  8. Well, my last Gambit worked. With unsuccessful results from last nights actions, we were left with only Joe, Mabi, and Lents as possible suspects. So, I PM'd all three of you letting you know we successfully Seeked you as the Spiked last night. This was a lie. But we knew at least one of you would either straight up confess, or make it easier to determine who it was. Thank you, Joe, for confessing. You did have most of us convinced in the Trust you were clean, so good job on that. I apologize for all the innocents that were taken out by the Trusts actions, but Coinshooting suspects was another way we had to 'verify' peoples roles... just in a more permanent way. Your sacrifices were not in vain, and with everyone's help we were able to finally get a Villager Win. Great job, everybody! P.S. I was the only Lurcher the entire game. Edit: I also told Joe that at the end of the Vote, his character can kill/take me out with him. I'm totally cool with going out Martyr style. I mean, what else is there for Gamut to do after this? You either die a Hero, or live long enough to become a villain. Double Edit: Obviously, if the game doesn't end with Joe, I won't let my character be officially killed. But I'll die for RP reasons and have my Spirit linger around, carrying out my final actions.
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  9. I imagine this is actually just an instance in which Jasnah is not quite as adept at reading people as Shallan is. She may be a genius, but her own father reprimands her in the Prologue for being too dismissive of all others as idiots. As for Sebarial and Palona, they're great. I imagine they will land on their feet regardless of the setbacks of relocation/rebuilding.
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  10. Couldn't the broken one be... a stick?
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  11. BTW, the two biggest things I learned from this signing, while we wait for me to post the file and somebody to transcribe it: Someone asked about what it means to be Koloss-blooded. Pretty interesting stuff. When Koloss mate their offspring is "Koloss blooded." When the child comes of age they can choose to accept the spikes and become a full Koloss, or to leave the tribe and make their own way. Also, regular humans can, if they wish, go to a tribe and prove themselves and earn their spikes, becoming a Koloss. Second, when he was signing my books he noticed my name, which is Bowen, and said something along the lines of "You know, I had a character from one of my earlier unpublished books (White Sands) named 'Bowen.'" He went on to talk about the character a little, who was an archer. And he said that he really shouldn't have a character who was a bowman named Bowen, so when he went back through the book to alter the linguisitcs of the world, he changed the name to Baon (don't know if I'm spelling that right). Then, and this is the big part, he confirmed that this character was in fact "Blunt" in the Way of Kings purelake interlude!!!
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  12. OK so I've read a lot of books in my time (every book b. Sanderson has put out) and I find myself being extremely disappointed in non-sanderson books Like I read joe Abercrombies the first law series and was so mad at the ending of that series. Seriously like in 10 years when the first half of this series is out I believe people will be thinking "George r r who? Tolken who?" I still have my favorites like 'ready player one' and the eragon series but i feel like other authors can't match his writing skill and story telling ability. Does anyone else feel this way? Like Sanderson is completely taking over the high fantasy genre?
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  13. Alright, so, in looking up info for something else, I noticed that Hoid calls himself spiritually blind in the Epilogue for Words of Radiance. He also goes on a little rant about expectations, which probably says a lot about his character and intentions. But for the moment, knowing that the spiritual realm controls things like connections, some types of investiture, and ghosts, and that Hoid is both pre-shattering and incredibly realmatically aware, what could he have meant by that offhand comment?
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  14. Look, when I say this is the best day of Splintercast yet--or, quite possibly ever--I'm not kidding. This is Alyx's very favorite. Just listen to Chapter 41. There are gasps and also, perhaps desks broke. It's hard to tell. And that's not all, because then you get to her totally fangirl over Mraize. It's a very deep kind of love there. Also, kittyspren.
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  15. Theory in brief: Nalan sends Szeth to kill the Stone Shamen because they are the original Skybreakers whom Nalan believes have failed the purpose of their Order. We know from the epigraph to Chapter 41 that one KR Order “entertained great subterfuge” “not [to] abandon their arms” but to continue as functioning KR. I believe these were the Skybreakers who moved to Shinovar and became the Stone Shamen. Evidence: Only Skybreakers and Windrunners utilize the Gravitation surge, and only those with the Gravitation surge could have taught Szeth how to use Jezrien’s Honorblade to fly. If Kaladin hadn’t seen Szeth, and Syl hadn’t helped him, he might never have learned to fly himself.Nalan apparently still has his Honorblade. When he went back to retrieve it, the Skybreakers were with him and collected the other Heralds’ Blades. They took them back to Shinovar with them.Of all the lands on Roshar, Shinovar is the most politically and ideologically orderly. Everyone knows their place. Very Skybreaker-like.The Skybreakers believed the Desolations were over, since they had lived a long time without encountering another one. This was unlike the other Desolations, which occurred at shorter time intervals I do think KR are immortal, or close enough to, for whatever reason – whether from the healing effects of Stormlight (sorry, Kurkistan) or their bonding with a splinter of Honor, or something else. (Of course, how do they get their Stormlight, if they live in Shinovar?) Having such personal knowledge of the normal sequence of Desolations, and perhaps relying on the effectiveness of whatever the Bondsmith Melishi had accomplished against the Voidbringers (Epigraph, Chaper 58), over time the Skybreakers came to believe that the Voidbringers would never return. That is why they made Szeth Truthless (after Taravangian’s intercession and instigation, as another thread concluded based on the epigraph to Chapter 78). Nalan now wants revenge on the Skybreakers for, I believe, limiting their activities only to the Shinovar political/spiritual system, rather than actively maintaining order throughout Roshar. Nalan was the last of the Heralds to accept his role as an Order’s patron (Epigraph, Chapter 43): "And thus were the disturbances in the Revv toparchy quieted, when, upon their ceasing to prosecute their civil dissensions, Nalan’Elin betook himself to finally accept the Skybreakers who had named him their master, when initially he had spurned their advances and, in his own interests, refused to countenance that which he deemed a pursuit of vanity and annoyance; this was the last of the Heralds to admit to such patronage." This passage suggests Nalan accepted his role only after the Skybreakers agreed to “ceas[e] to prosecute their civil dissensions,” thus quieting the toparchy’s “disturbances.” Nalan viewed such involvement in civil affairs as “a pursuit of vanity and annoyance.” But when the Skybreakers retreated to Shinovar, and focused solely on establishing an orderly system there, Nalan believed they returned to such a “pursuit of vanity.” He tells Szeth he was “banished by petty men with no vision.” Nalan wants Szeth and Nightblood to kill the Skybreakers/Stone Shamen – “justice for the leaders of the Shin.” Those whom Nalan has gathered to him – the “new” Skybreakers – are not surgebinders, merely people who believe in order as strongly as he does. Because Nalan’s mind has been twisted, he believes surgebinders are the cause of the Deolations and cannot be trusted. He and his new Skybreakers seek to kill them as well. That’s the theory anyway…
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  16. Contrary to the other theory about the Stone shaman here on these forums, I believe the people of Shinnovar descend from Stonewards. The correlation is pretty obvious, considering that the Shin people revere stone very highly. But I also believe that they may go as far as to worship Taln, the Herald of the Stonewards, almost as if he is their God (I’m using the term “God” very loosely). Because the Shin kept the remaining Honorblades after the Last Desolation, they must know that Taln was the only one of the Heralds who returned to Damnation to uphold the Oathpact, and this is why they worship him. Szeth was declared truthless because for him to claim that the voidbringers (and the next desolation) are returning, he is claiming that Taln must have failed them in Damnation, therefore speaking blasphemy toward their God. I think it may also be possible that the Stonewards still exist in Shinnovar, retaining their Surgebinding powers (and spren) even after the day of Recreance. I do not think the Knights Radiant themselves broke their Oaths, killing their spren. Instead, I think their spren were killed when the Heralds of their Order broke their own Oathpact by not returning to Damnation. This would explain why in Dalinar’s vison at Feverstone Keep, seemingly all of the Knights abandoned their blades at the same time. If it was up to the Knights to betray the Oaths on their own, it would be very unlikely for all of them to “betray” their oaths at the exact same time. If this is true, it may mean that because Taln did not abandon the Oathpact, that the spren of the Stonewards did not die. It is possible that the remaining Knights of the Stonewards then gathered the Honorblades and retreated to Shinnovar.
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  17. Hi everybody, First of all, just in case, this post has spoilers for Elantris as well as WoR. I noticed something in passing and I didn't see this discussed anywhere - my apologies if I just missed it. Pattern mentions that all of the originally bonded Cryptics were rendered mindless when the KR broke their bonds: This seems remarkably like Seons - symbols disrupted by a missing component when the Chasm formed and the Aons didn't sufficiently resemble the Physical landscape to convey the Dor. The Seons were restored by making the alteration in the Physical Realm when Raoden drew in the Chasm line in the master Aon of Elantris as well as the individual Aons, restoring the connection between the Spiritual (the Dor) and the Physical Realm, allowing the flow of Investiture. In this case, the KRs breaking the bonds tore the sentience out of the spren - not a Physical event. The Cryptics have tried to restore the broken spren but to no avail, suggesting the breach isn't in the Cognitive Realm. Shai mentions in Emperor's Soul... So oaths appear to forge Spiritual bonds rather than Cognitive. Pattern suggests that there may be a way to reforge that bond, if the original knights still lived. Shardblades sever the link to the Spiritual Realm, but is the reverse possible? There is precedent for healing from Shardblade wounds via Stormlight, when Kaladin restored the severed Spiritual connection to his deadened arm; not the same as regrowing from existing living Spiritual inventory as Lopen seems to be doing. Saying The Words appears to have restored the severed bonds with Syl: "I was only as dead as your oaths." (HC, p. 1031). So I guess my questions boil down to these: 1. What causes Cryptics or spren with the potential of bonding to people to be 'born', separate individuals from their respective forces or concepts? 2. Can the spren be reborn by new proto-KR saying The Words, or are they less able than 'unborn' spren? (spren reincarnation?) Can proto-KR saying the words restore those bonds with broken spren like adding the Chasm line in an Aon? 3. Can Stormlight itself reforge Spiritual bonds, like Kaladin healing his arm? Is there a way to infuse a proto-KR with Stormlight they couldn't otherwise channel to create the Spiritual connection with a broken spren?
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  18. I'll admit, Joe, the fact that you voted for Erendi on the first day had me fooled. You guys had the chance to get Mabi lynched then and there and left Erendi to be an ace in the hole, but you kept your vote on him. Well played, but this gambit of another Spiked is uncalled for. Even if there is another one, there are only 3 people that are unverified. The next night, we'll be able to seek one, I'd coinshot another and if that doesn't finish the game, we lynch the third person and there is literally nothing that can be done about it. If you try to kill Chid, Gamut lurches him and we still get the results. If you kill Gamut, we still get the results. If you kill me, I still get the kill and we still get the same results. In other words, if you had a teammate, you should both step forward and gloat while you can, cause you're dead either way. (Yes, your eccentric Detective was your coinshot the entire game. As Dane so well put, even when I'm not GM, I still get the highest kill count! Mwahahaha!!! I've copied the PMs from the Trust into a Google Doc that I have gotten everyone's permission to post at the end of the game, but to quickly clarify one thing: I never used my powers for the first few days. Raubber was hit by either Asp or Bartson. Since we couldn't know which one hit him, we couldn't be sure of his alliance. Sorry Raubber!)
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  19. I was the creator of the three piece dwarven runes poem. I had originally written it before Clan died, and was going to send a piece to both Tineyes, but he died, and I had to get creative. I do not regret getting Wark to "find" one piece, because I absolutely loved the RP he wrote about it. Written below is the original version with all the correct punctuation and spellings. Three spiked are down, their fate was due, There's one, (we think,) or maybe two, Left in this game, whose limbs we'll hew. The first we hung, on vague surmise, Defend yourself, to all we cried. But he delayed, and so he died. The next burned lead, he thought it wise. Until one day, to his surprise, He ran from us, and then he died. The third was sudden, shot at night, Misstep he did, to our delight, His blade he lost, and then his life. Our luck thus far has been sustained, This night we hope will be their bane, The heap of dead one more to gain.
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  20. Hahah I didn't even notice Selvar's sig. Well, Joe, I thought it would be fun to see if anyone noticed. May I ask when you did? And did anyone else? Besides those I pointed it out to? I'll be on tomorrow when I have more time and I'll post all the hidden meanings in my messages. Clan said he would also. Being "Tineye decoder" was quite fun. Especially when half the messages I already knew and I got to pretend to miss things. Like lots of white text. Oh and congratulations, Gamut, Selvar, and Chidden. Chidden, I guess I will forgive you for that tree you chopped down so long ago. You always have a bed in my home from now on. You saved us all. I had conversations with the Trust, but we didn't do much. Since you had it all taken care of. This is what my sig said in white, if anyone wants to know: You have to be a Tineye to see this. By the way I'm glad to add a 1 next to the green survivor list. Unless there is another Spiked. The who knows.
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  21. Read Scott Lynch, The Lies of Locke Lamora. I loved it!
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  22. Chidden stepped forward from the mists and walked up to the old metallurgist, leaning on his dueling cane. Chidden didn't really have a limp, but he thought it made him look cool. "You always were a little bit shifty, Joe, but I never suspected you to be the last spiked! I should have seeked you long ago." The boy unstopped his last bottle of bronze and tried to drink it as ostentatiously as possible. "Well, I'm tired of hiding! I told you all that I would save the world, and you just didn't listened! Ha! Who's harebrained now? I saved Blackwater just fine, with some brilliant help from Gamut and the rest of the Trust. And we will remain safe, just as soon as your ruinous body hits the ground." Chidden walked into the Lurcher's Inn, which was practically the new town hall of Blackwater. He clambered up onto one of the tables and addressed the town's beleaguered survivors. "Gamut the Lurcher saved us all. He anticipated nearly every move of the spiked. He kept me safe so I could find them. All his life, he has tried to protect people, and now he has succeeded. I would like to be the first to vote for Gamut as the new mayor of Blackwater village!"
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  23. You guys have some very good thoughts here. A couple of the points you raised I had been thinking about mysekf abd was unsatisfied with but was yet to find a good solution. Here goes: Thankyou for all the input guys =D 2 heads (or more) are much better than 1!
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  24. This is something I see in online communities so often - where people say that after reading their favorite authors book/ playing their favorite game/ etc., they stop liking other people's works. I just do not understand this at all. Brandon Sanderson's my favorite author, sure, but I still enjoy Rothfuss, Butcher, Martin, Lynch, etc. Every author has their strengths and weaknesses. A Song of Ice and Fire's plot is a bit plodding at times, but his characters and world are still top-notch. Rothfuss's prose is beautifully written and engaging. The scope and depth of Erikson's Malazan series is jaw-dropping. To condemn them just because they don't quite fit your tastes seems a bit foolish to me.
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  25. Wait, you Tricked me! Gosh Dang it! I'm going to take you with me Gamma! And by the way, thank you for confiming everyone's Role. There were 6 Spiked. I am number 5. EDIT: Maw and Selvar, you put your roles in your Signatures. May I ask Why?
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  26. I tell people Sanderson has ruined other authors for me. A friend lent me a book a couple months ago, and instead I reread almost every Sanderson book.
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  27. I had not thought about Wit appearing in other books before reading a bit in here. But figuring out that the series can be seen as connected on a larger scale than the series itself is obvious if you have read one of the Mistborn-books and Words of Radiance. I think you underestimate us average readers a bit I guess the finer points of this connexion are lost unless you want to find out about it, just like you say. For instance, I am not familiar with the terminology used to discuss these things, as it's not really mentioned in the books themselves. Nor had I really thought about the nature of shards before visiting this board (other than that it can be held (or 'held')). All this hardly is negative or a waste though. One of the hallmarks of a good book or series is that it works on more than one level. You can read through it and be entertained, without necessarily feeling you have to delve deeper to understand. And, if you are interested, there's plenty to think about and discuss.
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  28. Just letting the remaining spiked know that we have the means to get rid of you within a cycle. Good game, but you're done for. We haven't acted because we'd all prefer it if you begged for death.
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  29. I'm an Idrian Monk, and that can only mean one thing; I am no longer allowed to up/downvote, because not only would that draw too much attention to me, those buttons are too brightly colored!
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  30. I must admit, when reading WOR, I was becoming increasingly annoyed the with the Light-Eyes. Kaladin's own predjudice against Lighteyes was disheartening to see - since he had experienced so much himself, but at the same time, was justified. I just wanted to bang the character's heads together. "YOU HAVE MUCH BIGGER PROBLEMS PEOPLE!" :Sigh: Still. I can't wait to see how this will progress as the series goes on. I suspect the Radiant's - i.e. Kaladin, Dalinar and Shallan, will become closer as they try to understand their powers, and the social barriers will start to degenerate as time goes by. I think there will be some more friction when Kaladin returns to his home - now a lighteye, but I think it will be interesting to watch the groups mingle and change as the apocalypse nears...
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  31. I don't think that will be a problem for him. There's a good chance that the factories were not destroyed by the everstorm, so there will likely be enough time for him to pack up the equipment and do a quick harvesting. Also, the honor of helping to fulfill the vengeance pact will likely help him establish a steady stream of revenue. Overall, I REALLY liked this guy.
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  32. I think it's just a problem with their society. Remember they are basically told from birth that their whole life is about fighting and to best serve their God they must become the best fighters so they can fight when they die. It's a society that revolves around conflict and never backing down. I can imagine people in that society being really terrible at admitting mistakes to another. Not only is everyone your enemy but it's also a sign of weakness.
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  34. Hey guys I'm back! I'm glad to hear that people are excited about the game Summary: Water-skiing was fun, but hard and my arms are very sore now. I had limited net access on my phone so I have been reading posts here and in the creating roles thread. I have a major assignment due tomorrow so I need to work on that tonight but I'll be able to post/reply properly tomorrow Heh, the potato experiment was fun =) I think we should maaaybe limit white text to extra comments, making all posts white partially defies the point of hidden text right? : P
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  35. @ffrond: Silent Gatherer starts at 278. Up voted you 9 times to find it. Forescout is a hard boundary at 110. Kings tester starts at 450. Sentient Awakened Object is a hard boundary at 1000. 128 is the change over point for hazekiller. High Prelan begins at 180. Mistborn is still hanging in at 2222. 1800 is the start for Dawnsinger. Many thanks to the Sanderson Elimination Players for all the posts I upvoted to find these boundaries.
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  36. Is Baon the proper spelling then? EDIT: And thanks Tempus, uploading it to dropcanvas now... EDIT2: Uploaded. Here it is: http://dropcanvas.com/#0Oz94r48z44N8D I will probably go in and transcribe the parts where I was personally involved, which was near the beginning and near the end, just because I can offer input and clarifications. If anybody else wanted to transcribe the rest of it, that would be great.
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  37. We have a WoB that says Adolin and Renarin are both Dalinar's legitimate sons. (Though I can't help but notice that he never says anything about them both being Shshsh's sons.... )
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  38. Well, from what i know at least Adolin and Renarin are reletad
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  39. Major upvotes to the first person to get Brandon to autograph a Stick for them.
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  40. Just got back, asked a few questions. Please note that these are super paraphrased, but I did see someone's IPhone on the table, so we hopefully have a transcript! Q: Have we seen another Lightweaver? A: The power? Yes. The Order? No. Q: Would any of the Orders be okay with one being an assassin? A: Yes (Please note that a family member decided to drop in at this point, so I may have heard wrong. Woops.) Q: Is Liss a Surgebinder? A: RAFO! (Omagawsh it's an actual card this is so cool) Q: Can you Compound to the point where you become a Savant? A: No, being a Savant is when you burn so much it alters your spirit, Compounding is similar but different. (He might have heard the question wrong here, I don't know. I should have asked it differently. But, there goes my theory ) Q: Who's your favorite character to write? A: Mat Cauthon, especially later on when I really got his character down. Q: Will we ever see more of Stick? A: *Laughs* Everyone loves Stick. But no, there aren't any plans to have more Stick. So that was cool! It's a real shame though that my copy of WoK is currently on loan .
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  42. I have always assumed that both of these passages are Kelsier intervening. It just seems like the kind of advice he'd give, and it reads to me like his voice (and maybe more importantly, definitely not Elend or Sazed's voices). Granted, it's a little odd that he knows what senses the two tin rings were storing, but if he was watching closely it shouldn't be that hard to work out from context.
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  43. Well, it might be worth noting that Sebarial might be ruined. He invested a lot of money into capital and infrastructure in a region which is being abandoned and about to be wiped out by the Everstorm - right as his factories and farms are starting to come online. Jasnah's notes are pretty deprecating: which is actually interesting, since even Dalinar knows there's more to Sebarial: It's odd that Jasnah's assessment is so off; if it was anyone else I'd think it might be a personal grudge...
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  44. Villager or spiked Thug? Granted given that the game is still going the former is more likely but just to make sure. By the time Dane understood what was going on the assailant already escaped. The sound of the knive hitting the ground freed him from his shock. It left a large smear of blood on the ground. Still, Dane´s mind was calm. His wound didn´t hurt as bad as it should instead there was an almost pleasant feeling spreading through him. How did the assasin enter without the guards raising alarm. There should be guardsmen posted infront of his room. What happend with them? damnation! Dane rushed outside his room, worried. He found his two guardsmen laying on the ground, without any obvious injuries. Actually one was already starting to regain consciousness. Dane relaxed and leaned against the wall, holding his wound. Hectic footsteps came ringing from down the hallway. Dane could make out the captain a good distance ahead of five other men. When he arived his sight concentrated on the bloodstain on his fake-employers clothes. "Someone bring me medical supplies!" He signaled the others guards without hesitation and moved closer to assess he wound. After a short while he visibly relaxed. Sir, given the blood the wound is supprisingly shallow. It won´t be very dangerous. We still need to get you to rest." At the very least theat explains why it doesn´t hurt very much. "Well then, I suppose I can make your job somewhat easier and stay home for a while. And I don´t want to hear anything about you having failed me. Just get me a messanger to keep me informed on whats going on." "Understood, sir!"
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  45. Don't we have WoB, though, that Hoid isn't the Ars Arcanum author? It just seems like a very unlikely circumstance. First the Ars Arcanum author has to hunt down Szeth, who the world thinks is dead, and then somehow convince him to halt whatever he's doing and give him an impromptu interview. Besides, he says "Reports of the Assassin in White's odd abilities have led me to some sources of information that, I believe, are generally unknown", as well as "The effects of these Surgebindings were known – colloquially among the members of the order – as the Three Lashings." This isn't some Szeth specific terminology picked up in an interview – someone/something taught Szeth how to use his blade, and someone/something told the Ars Arcanum author the info on the Windrunners.
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  46. "And behold, it came to pass that the king of kobolds spoke of the Stick in a post of a far-away land. And it came to pass that he was persecuted, given a vote downwards by one of the Enemies of the Stick." "But behold, the Churchmen of the Stick saw this, and they were displeased. And they came to the aide of the persecuted, giving seven votes upward to the king of kobolds. The Faith of the Stick was thus carried into the lands of the unbelievers." "And praises were sung throughout the lands held by the 17th Shard. The Psalm of Stickiness was uttered by all." I. AM. A. STICK.
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  47. The stick was strong willed enough to defy Shallan, who has the willpower to actively and completely ignore everything traumatic about her past for years. You would need an exceptionally strong mind to stand against the Order of the Stick. ........I see a stick. Oh Stormfather, why does it come for me? It is brown, and sticky. It is the Everstorm. -collected on Jesachel. Subject was a glassy-eyed 17th sharder of middling years. Sample considered questionable.
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  48. The Oaths prevent Surgbinders from going out of control. If the spren could warp a Surgbinder into acting with power against his oaths how did breaking the Oaths kill those spren? doesn't add up...
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  49. What makes you think Midnight Essence isn't a spren? WoR spoilers:
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