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So a prevailing belief at the moment is that Hoid is endeavoring to reform Adonalsium. With the recent revelation about the nature of Harmony, which I will be discussing further down, I no longer believe that reforming Adonalsium is possible. At least not in the way we are thinking. Hoid muses about taking things apart and putting them back together again when talking to Dalinar in Way of Kings. This is the quote a lot of people have been thinking supports the idea that Hoid is trying to put Adonalsium together again. The line “into something like them—yet wholly unlike them at the same time” has led some people, and now myself, to question whether reuniting all of the Shards would recreate Adonalsium. In this theory I will be arguing the negative, bringing the Shards together will not remake Adonalsium. (in a potentially roundabout way that may make absolutely no sense) For the purposes of this thread I will be referring to Adonalsium as if it was a sheet of glass as a nod to the Shardic Lens theory. So, originally there was an unbroken pane of glass through which the power of creation shone. Then for some reason it shattered, creating sixteen Shards. Each has a different intent that filters the light that shines through them, kind of like a distinct color. At the tail end of AMA Brandon answered this question: This quote has blown the minds of a fair number of people, including mine. Before I get to the point I am making, I want to add another quote that shows that even though Harmony is the Shard, Ruin and Preservation still exist. It is my opinion that Ruin and Preservation have become cognitively linked, they have begun to see themselves as part of a greater whole, Harmony. Like Shai describes in the following quote. So what’s my point? The two pieces of glass that are Ruin and Preservation haven’t come together and made a larger piece of glass. They’ve just been soldered together. If that is true for these two Shards I can’t see any reason why having all sixteen would make any difference. Rather than making the pristine sheet of glass that was Adonalsium, they would instead make a stained-glass window. Hopefully this makes since to someone other than myself. Quotes in order of appearance -Way of Kings: Chapter 54 -2013 Reddit AMA -Nov 21 2011 Alloy of Law Signing Report - Lord Juss -The Emperor's Soul: Day Twelve Edit: This section is based in part on Chaos’ Devotion, Dominion, and Convergence Theory. In his theory Chaos describes the concept of “fragments” of shards and differentiates them from Splinters. In regards to my stained-glass metaphor they would both be pieces of glass from their respective Shard but are differentiated by their clarity. Splinters would have the same clarity as the parent Shard while fragments would have be more like frosted glass, transmitting the light in a more diffuse manner. What makes one frosted while the other is clear you’re asking? In my opinion it has to do with the relative strength, for lack of a better term, of their cognitive aspect. The “strength” of the cognitive aspect has to do with its ability to think for itself, a person has a stronger cognitive aspect than a rock for example. But wait! Splinters aren’t sentient. No they are not, but all of the splinters we have seen are attached to something that does have a strong cognitive aspect (i.e. the Returned and the Seons). A strong cognitive aspect helps to focus, and control, the light that is coming through the glass. It is important to remember though that these fragments still have a cognitive aspect to them, not a very strong one, but it is there and helping with the “convergence,” as Chaos put it, of the two shards. In my opinion the history, or rather memories, of an object are a part of its cognitive aspect (supported by the fact that feruchemical copper is a cognitive metal). These fragments can remember being part of something larger and want to be a part of it again (like the wall Shai forged to be painted wanted to be beautiful). It actually has memories of being a part of two things, its respective shard and adonalsium. So if a fragment of Devotion met up with a fragment of Dominion it would be like “You’re different from me but we used to be together so let’s hang out.” It is somewhat similar to Ruin and Preservation but in their case they have Sazed and the people of Scadrial to help for a cognitive leading for the pieces of glass.

I get where you're coming from, but suggest,an alternative theory. Rather than creating a patchwork of the window, what if the time spent together has actually caused the glass to melt and merge? They become more inextricably linked then. Theoretically possible to separate, but not easily done. This would also create a window very different from the original. For the record, I actually find your idea more plausible and intuitive, given the example of the table which is still obviously constructed from different components, and the above quote stating that harmony is still, in fact, two shards.

Oracles could potentially be super-awesome-ninjas, observing their own future actions and adapting accordingly, btw. There is WoB on Smokers protecting others from emotional allomancy: Source There's no need to be so hostile to theorizing, either. We haven't seen any Smoker's doing anything or much interest in them in the series, so it falls mostly to us to think of what they can do.

Or maby that the stone itself wasn't the problem and they killed Gavilar because he knew how to get these stones. If this is true then it seems Gavilar figured out how to rip out and store bits of Odium. The Parshendi don't have the means to put the Odium chunk back so they just dicide to kill Gavilar and stop him from gathering more and reviveing Odium. Also on a completely different note Did anyone else notice that when Eshonai is angry the anger spren are discribed as looking like lightning on the ground but privously they were discribed as looking like pools of bubbling blood. Is this a diffrence between Parshendi attracted spren and human attracted spren or is it just a diffrent kind of anger spren? Personaly I hope it is the first one.

I have seen a reoccurring theme in these forums in regard to the relationship between steel pushing/iron puling and weight. I am hoping I can dispel some confusion on the matter. I am hoping you can forgive me if I quote the book incorrectly I am transcribing from the audiobooks(Don't judge me. I drive a lot.) and don't have the texts to reference. I believe this whole idea comes from when Kelsier was training Vin. After they get in a pushing match. Kelsier Tells her, This I think has been interpreted to mean than heavier people have a stronger push. If you look to their first training session Kelsier has already explained quite clearly that is has to do with action and reaction. After Kelsier tells Vin not to get in a push matches, Vin recalls this earlier lesson and reasons, The reason for not getting into a push match with someone heavier is NOT because they are stronger pushers but because their body is a better anchor. Summary: weight has nothing to do with steel pushing strength. edit: added quote boxes

This entire post is a HUGE speculation, so be warned. Edit 6/11: This chart was created to mimic the Kabbalah, and uses color, form, relationships and symbols to create meaning. The ideas below are all my interpretations of these relationships and symbols. The main structure of the diagram is a large eye with two pupils and 10 lines radiating out from the center. The smaller symbols form a ring around the iris. The beasts wings form the sclera of the eye. If you take away all the trimmings it becomes the symbol of Knight's Radiant. "Dalinar recognized the symbol, the particular pattern of the stylized double eye, eight spheres connected with two at the center. It had been the symbol of the Lost Radiants, back when they’d been called the Knights Radiant." (Ch 19). But what does that symbol mean? I believe these images are a graphical representation that Honor and Cultivation merged into one Shard with two Intellects. In effect, they are both peering out of the same eye, but with slightly different points of view. The Harmonic Table: KR symbol Double Eye Double Skull I think its quite important that the two Winged Greatshells are symmetric, and that there is a single larger head with mandibles created in the negative space between the two physical forms. The left beast represents Cultivation, the right beast represents Honor, and the central head depicts the spiritual union of the two Shards. There is also a Glyph located at the place where the two Dragonwasp heads connect. The heads and symbol viewed together resemble a crown with the central gem placed over the forehead. This Gem contains the glyph of Ishi. Now putting it all together: Ishi is associated in the Ars Arcanum with guidance and piety, and resides in the third eye focus of the spiritual union of Honor and Cultivation. The Skybreakers then are an Order of Radiants devoted to guiding us based on visions of the future. Ishi is the 10th Glyph, so 10 becomes a symbol of revelation. Each glyph and map shape is important, and you can make similar interpretations for each order of the Knights Radiant. We can even use this image to figure out the general location of the two Shardic pools, and predict their release into the physical realm through the Greatshells. This is also a way to organize Surges, and by association, Invested Spren. Think of the diagram as a coordinate axis grid. The x-axis is Investiture, the y-axis is Realm. The quadrants tell you the element type. Before we go any farther I suggest you look at how the color changes from top to bottom. Up is Physical, down is Cognitive. Left is Cultivation, right is Honor. Each Spren relates to a primary element or combination of primary elements. Going clockwise from the top right we get air, fire, water, earth and spirit in the middle. The large glyphs are Spren, and correlate to an Order of Kights Radiant and an Honorblade. The small glyphs are Surges and represent a power of creation. Starting from 1:00 and going clockwise the Surges are: External Physical-Gravity, Pressure External Mental-Darkness, Light External Temporal-Transportation (Timespace Contraction) Internal Enhancement-Transformation (Spiritual Connection) Internal Mental-Memory, Awareness Internal Physical-Perception, Strength This fits with Windspren ( Pressure and Gravity), Cryptics (Memory and Transformation) and JasnahSpren (Transportation and Transformation). If this is grouped correctly, StoneWards would be Strength/ Perception. Edit: Skybreakers would be Strength and Gravity, Lightweavers might be Light and Transportation (which could explain how Hoid gets around through time and space) Where are the other 6 Surges? They were never Invested by Honor/Cultivation but the spren exist and some have already been incorporated into fabrials. We see a radiant use Heliodor (gold) to mend wounds and we've seen a painspren fabrial work. What is an Honorspren? What is a Cultivationspren? That depends on how sensitive or specific you want to be. I'll just arbitrarily say you must have more than 50%, which would give you 4 Honorspren, 4 Cultivationspren and two hybrids. A purist would say there are no Honorspren as they all contain a bit of Cultivation. Surges and Symmetry: To understand Voidbinding you will need to grasp the theory behind Surgebinding. Each Surge represents a power of creation and is accessed through an associated Wave, or perhaps through the Concept of how that wave should function, or through a portion of the Ideal Form of the original Wavepattern that sparked the creation of all things. It seems the medium is variable, and you can reproduce a Surgepattern with light, sound, color or even quantum probability waves. Notice that everything in the chart has perfect symmetry. This is a reflection of how waveforms have spin, creating alternating positive and negative cycles and generating perfectly balanced patterns. Symmetry became a cultural obsession in an attempt to get closer to the Harmonic Divine. Voidbinding The Table of Dissonance: Enter Odious Interference. His Intent is either to enslave or destroy everything else in the Cosmere. If He were to join the spiritual union He should add varying amounts of His investiture to each of the available spren, effectively creating a z-axis to the Harmonic Table. But He is a Jealous Younger Brother and didn't want to sully His Essence by combining with others. Instead, He found a way to enslave or destroy the Surges in the Harmonic Table. First, he created a way to trap the Investiture of the paired Shards into StormGems (Fabrials) and harnessed their powers. Next he used those powers to create perfect dissonance in the waveforms of the 10 Surges. Notice that the Table of Dissonance pairs up exactly with the Table of Harmonics. Surges are warped by reversing their charge and spin. This would in effect create an anti-surge. The very powers of creation are turned against themselves. Matter, Spirit and Mind are replaced by Fire and Shadow. EDIT: you can try this out for yourself by drawing a sine wave. Try and swing the part below the x-axis to create net zero at all points along the graph. EDIT: This is a supernova created when a star began to produce antimatter at its core. The organized matter turns into random energy and forms fire and empty space. This theory is far from complete, but it is as thorough as I can make it with the Splinters I'm working with. I'll be trying to finish the Harmonic Table based on Shardic Lens Theory, but could be hard to link everything up with only 10 of the 16 powers. My guess is we will see more Fabrials fill in the gaps for us. Since this theory depends on Honor and Cultivation uniting into one spiritual entity, it serves to reason that they are both partially splintered and partially whole. How that would affect the Cognitive aspect of the two shards is unclear, but best interpreted after reading chapter 57 and 75. Edit: I've done numerous organizational changes to clarify things, and I changed the Labels on the image a bit. For example, Heat changed to Light Edit 4/28: Based on discussions on page 3, renamed inertia to Strength, switched Gravity and Pressure locations. Updated image to reflect changes. Removed "Spin" from OP to avoid unnecessary confusion.

Well I'm Iredomi, real name Joshua. I hail from the relatively small nation of New Zealand. And I love Brandon Sanderson's books. I got to know his books from his writing for the Wheel of Time. Was intimidated by the sheer size of Way of Kings and the seemingly endless POV switches at the beginning of the book, Kalak to Szeth to Cenn to Kaladin to Shallan, yeah wasn't prepared for that. Anyways a year later I found this site and found out about the interconnective awesomeness of his books and began reading from Elantris all the way to Emperor's Soul. And yeah been awesome. And this site is such a great place full of awesome people and interesting theories. So hello and thank you 17th Shard and all the admins and people that make this site great, just yeah. It's cool this site here, really cool, a place I'm glad to be. =)

Just made my account yesterday after I googled Hoid on a hunch while reading WoK. I knew the books were supposed to be in the same universe, but I didn't know the stories were already linked! Awesome! I've read all the cosmere books, but the only person I know who read them is my dad, and he forgot everything! Glad to have people to talk to about them! (I bought the "Horneater Stew" shirt on Inkwing and wear it to school twice a week, but nobody has any idea what it means, but I keep wearing it anyway.) Anyway, hope to make some posts and have all my crappy theories be mercilessly crushed!

Boring is subjective. I find the idea of being undetectable from Seekers and immune to Soothers and Rioters to be quite exciting. And you know how in-demand you are for crews? There's only one word for a crew without a decent Smoker. Dead.

If we're speculating wildly... Lerasium: Steals Preservation. That's right, all the preservation in a person. On the plus side, you can stick the spike in a gorilla or something, and the excess preservation would reformat them into a sapient person again, complete with allomancy.

No mentions of Bastille. Likely because nobody, I repeat, nobody, can take that series seriously.

Oh man, I had fun with that Q&A, I went a bit overboard on the amount of questions (7), but they were all deserving of only brief answers and all got brief answers. He answered 5 of them using only 10 words total. He would have needed more words if he wanted to correct my assumptions, so either I guessed correctly or he was just holding back. My main argument was that we are told of two curses in Baxil's chapter (no feeling in hands, and everything looks upside down), and Link von Kelsier Harvey (I think that's his username) guessed that Taravangian's curse was fluctuating intelligence (which seems like a brillant shot in the dark to me), and that was confirmed. So we have 3 curses, all of which are neurological in effect. We also have Dalinar, who can't remember/process information about his dead wife. I argue that that was the curse, and we haven't really seen what the boon is, or if we have, it hasn't been obvious. I'm much more partial to Renarin's health being the boon instead of the curse, and that without it, Renarin would be in a much worse condition. Edit: I never replied to the original post. Can the boon and curse be the same thing? Sounds interesting, but the only concrete example we've been given of a boon is "a bolt of cloth", so there's almost no foundation on which speculate.

Another good chapter. Even though the story is dealing with some life and death matters, it still seems almost like light reading to me. Not sure if it's Mahau's character or your writing style. Whichever the reason, it makes it easy to keep reading. Some comments: Pg1: "Where is the accursed man?" -should it be "accursed god?" Or does Mahau's status as a lower god mean he's closer to human? Pg2-4: You've got some good banter between Neda and Mahau. I get a good feeling for the two characters and how they regard each other. I didn't think it ran too long as I read it, but I see what Adolins is saying. On the other hand, this builds good rapport between the two characters. Pg5: "Hadn't Neda told him the grizzly man was a messenger for the greater gods, Mahau wouldn't have looked at him twice." -This sentence is a little awkward... Pg 5: "Mahau examined the shape of the messenger’s coat. Only one scroll could fit there, which meant this particular messenger only had one missive to deliver." -I get your intent, but I'm having trouble imagining a coat that can only hold one scroll (along with the person in the coat). Is it a very large scroll? Also, Mahau finds a note in the coat later, so it's not like it only has one pocket, or anything. why can it only hold one scroll? Pg 8: "The only thing Mahau needed to do was to appear shorter than he really was. This was easy using a space reducing Shroud on oneself." -you're telling rather than showing. Instead just show Mahau making the space-reducing shroud and take out that last sentence where he's explaining magic principles to himself, and also the few sentences in the next paragraph where he's desribing what it does. You've already got the showing part, but you're telling too, and that makes it weaker. Pg 8: "So, the messenger left his coat on purpose for Mahau's use." -Again, you're over-telling. The reader knows this from the note; you don't have to spell it out. The story continues to be interesting. I can't help but think Mahau going alone to a gathering of all five greater gods, without telling anyone, when we know the gods fight amongst themselves, is a bad idea... I'm sure we'll find out soon. I have to wonder if Mahau recognizes this is a risky action, or if there is so much unquestioning loyalty to the greater gods that he obeys without thinking. Looking forward to more!

Did anyone catch my reference to Vun Makak? I think the Purelakers have the only True religion, and that their Sacred Grotto is where the combined Shardpool of Honor and Cultivation was originally formed. Urithiru was built "near" the Shardpool so it was built in the Purelake and not accessible by foot. The Purelake corresponds to Ishi on the Table of Harmonics and is a logical place for their cognitive essence to form. This pool is currently altered because the cognitive aspects of the two shards are dead. (See the Top Room, chapters 57 and 75). After Odium killed and fractured the paired Gods into 10 shards, the Heralds picked up the mantle. The Origin was formed as the Shardpool of Jezriel. The shardpool of Taln is in Shinovar and his power managed to protect them from the ravages of the storm. There are 8 other Shardpools which likely correspond in location to the 10 orders of Knights Radiant. The shardpool of Ishi remains in the sacred Grotto

I agree they are boring in their current state but, it seems to me that Brandon leaves these things vague until he wants to show us something cool. He hasn't really revealed anything about smokers other than their importance to skaa mistings. I have a feeling we just haven't been given enough insight into the workings of a smoker to understand how interesting they can be. He has hinted already that he is going to do some cool stuff with Augers

Umm. Lighteyes exist? Dalinar's eyes don't darken or change color when he sends his blade back (I think to the spiritual plane). There is theory suggesting that the eye color change relates to an SDNA change that could explain the link that allows one to retrieve the blades. The retrieval part still works. When Amaram took up the blade that Kaladin won, the gem on the blade is described as flashing, which seems to correspond to establishing the link. Is there some evidence that this works differently now? There is speculation that Odium has corrupted Shardblades somehow, but the only evidence I'm aware of in support is Syl's antipathy. If Odium did change the blades, I would think he would want to be subtle about it and not change something obvious if it could be avoided. I believe the current lighteyes include the descendents of those who picked up the weapons from Feverstone Keep (and maybe elsewhere). I wonder whether they also include the descendants of the Radiants. There is obviously alot of experience from that time forward. People have also won blades over time moving forward. If it had changed, it would have been noteworthy. Also, radiantblades are not described as changing peoples eye color, just lightening it. In particular, they are not described as changing it to the color associated with certain other radiant abilities that Szeth just happens to be able to use. If radiantblades changed eye color, whenever a hereditary lighteyes picked up a sword that was different than the one his ancester had used, wouldn't their eye color change unless the two swords changed the eyes to the same color? I think we would have seen it with Amaram when he picked up the sword Kaladin won. It seems like there is much more evidence than just rumor and legend. People know how this works, and are using these swords everyday. I think Brandon is hanging this Chekhovian cannon in plain sight.

I don't know how it is intended, but I hope Brandon does something with copperclouds in the future to make them more interesting. Otherwise copper is just a really boring power to have. Essential but boring. either you have the power or you don't? no practice necessary? No skill required to be a 'good' smoker? Lame!

Actually this idea is better fit for lerasium. I actually thought about it, but I don't remember why I dismissed it. Gonna use it for lerasium then. I stand by my sazedium though.

Then he would probably be thinking the same thing towards Adolin if it was just the Old Magic, but he singles out Renarin. Not to mention they both already know he sought out the Old Magic and nobody in the room, including Navani, considers it anything even approaching an 'egregious sin.' However, being responsible for imposing a lifetime of blood weakness and ostracization on your own son could weigh fairly heavily on the mind of a father as an 'egregious sin.'

Methinks I might have come off a little more condescending (read This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules-holish) than I meant to. Wasn't trying to belittle you guys or anything. Just trying to help point something out, figured you might have forgotten or something instead of not knowing about it. Sorry about that.

Pretty sure that was me over here. I'm also wondering about Devotion and Dominion. It does seem that they're pretty tangled now.

Alfie nodded approvingly. "An expensive bait. It will do excellently. He'll have to reach down and pull it out, and when he does he'll be open to attack. You can leap on him and knock him out with your pewter. I'll try to riot his curiosity and desire for wealth so he focuses only on the treasure." Alfie then started walking towards the bar entrance, tapping a little connection to boost his natural charisma. "Is that everything?" OOC He looked at the building with his steel eye. What does it look like inside? If it is not dangerous he would go inside. If there was a bronze burner he'd stop burning metals, if there was a copper burner he'd avoid using emotional allomancy. If Satsu had some concern he would wait and hear it.

Kelsier would have begun to talk to Spook after Spook removed his spike. This intuitively makes sense, since when the spike is inside Spook, Ruin can speak to him through the Hemalurgy. But, after the spike is removed, Kelsier--temporarily holding the power of Preservation, opposite power of Ruin--can finally get through to Spook.

Oh my... forgot about this... off-topic (sorry) but this ties nicely in with the theory of Waveforms that's been recently suggested. I seem to remember something similar with the Dor (Aons filtering which 'wavelengths' of the Dor can push through into the Physical). I wonder if Waveforms aren't unique to Roshar, so much as they are magic interpreted differently across the Cosmere. Back OT, I am also curious as to what happens to a metalmind allmonatically which is part-filled, or totally filled and later drained. There seems to be an almost contradictory thing going on here, as we know metals don't 'contain' allomantic power, they act as catalysts to allow access to Preservation's power source. So I wonder then what is the nature of the allomantic 'charge'? Is this a natural function of the metal's chemical makeup, or is the metal itself invested?

Huh. I read this differently; when Sanderson says 'this is what Odium feared would happen' I assumed he was talking about why Odium hasn't taken up any of the Shards he's destroyed. Is interesting to think that he may be opposed to the merging of Shards generally.

Hmm, another thought. You posted this earlier: I find that interesting, since I had assumed the opposite when looking at the chart: the large glyphs would represent a Herald (and their Honorblade) and a surge, and the smaller glyphs would represent a KR Order, each which is connected to two Hearlds/Surges since each order of KR could utilize two kinds of surges. I guess, aside from the importance of which glyph represents what, it isn't that big a deal, since it works both ways. Also, as for this idea: I'm not quite sure I agree here, either. Yes, there are 16 Shards. Yes, there are 16 (fundamental) Allomatic Metals. However, there are (as of right now) 10 key Shardworlds. There are 10 Heralds (and thus 10 surges) based on the 10 key kingdoms. There are 10 Orders of KR. There are 10 Highprinces of Alethkar. I also remember reading that it was on the 100th desolation that the Heralds abandoned their blades. Only 1 in 10 survived the desolations (as described by Nohadon). At least on Roshar, and possibly in the Cosmere as well, 10 seems to be just as important a number. Perhaps you're right--maybe Honor and Cultivation left out six that they didn't like, which is why 10 is important to Roshar, but the fact that there are 10 key Shardworlds seems to imply that this number carries weight elsewhere in the Cosmere.

I wonder if Devotion and Dominion have become conjoined in a similar way? The Dor is always described as a single power, with every system we've seen so far siphoning power from it, despite implications that they lean either towards Devotion and Dominion. The problem there is that they were never held by a single person as far as we know.

I liked Neda a lot - she had a nice confidence to her, and I liked her oddly casual relationship with Mahau. They have a fun dynamic and I'd like to see more it. Having said that, I think their conversation may have run a little long. It slowed the pace a bit, and it did seem a little odd that she would argue/banter with him that long while a messanger from the greater gods waited. Since she seems like the more responsible one, I was also surprised he had to bring the subject up. Overall, excited to keep reading more!

I consider. A bait. A bait that looks natural... A stash? Yes, this would probably serve. I take one of my spare vials with larger metal selection and wrap it in aluminum foil. Expensive, but I don't plan to lose it. I go to the end of the alley, and spot loose bricks on one of the buildings. A pull with my Pewter flared, and the bricks came out, revealing a small gap before the next layer filled with gravel. I carefully place the vial there and close with with brick as far as it would now go. "Well, here is a nice stash full of expensive metals. Do you think it would work?"

If this is true, then Shards, including Odium, would be unable to see waveforms, correct? The fact that the Alethi script was designed to look like waveforms could then be an attempt to blind Odium to their communications, similar to the prophecies inscribed on metal on Scadrial and the color-dot script used by priests on Nalthis.

See I think of it exactly backwards, with Ruin and Cultivation's "compatibility" being in needing and benefiting from each other. Letting Cultivation be destructive would invalidate it. Agriculture starts by killing almost everything in a field. Then you cultivate one crop, while periodically coming back and killing pests. There's a lot of killing. I see the killing as something Cultivation is underequipped to do herself. I like the idea of cutting away select bits, like trimming a tree, but that would be her limit. Taking darkanimereal1's idea of the storm being a mix of three gods, say it comes in three waves. Odium is first, in the destructive stormwall. Then Honor, when it brings the Stormlight. Lastly Cultivation, with the water and crem.

Speaking as a broken girl myself it takes a lot more than somebody's protection to help. A lot of times the demons are inside you, or they are words and actions from other people that you can't stop from happening. And sometimes your protection can hurt us, sometimes it can hurt you, and others it hurts both of us. I'm not sure what my point is with this, other than to put my thoughts down.

Honestly, I just think Hoid and Kelsier are too similar: Cocky showmen who thrive on getting the better of others.

Cooling yourself when it's hot, whilst obviously beneficial, doesn't bypass the end-neutral nature of Ferruchemy. End-neutral doesn't refer to the amount of benefit a craft person might be able to gain; it refers to the transfer of power/attributes. So yes, someone can store heat to cool themselves, then tap that same heat when it's warm later, but they can't get back more then they put in. Compare to Allomancy, where a nugget of metal can give you strength you never had, or senses beyond the norm, or the ability to suppress others' emotions. This all comes direct from Preservation, with the metal acting simply as catalyst to give you access to the power. Ferruchemy, by contrast, you have to be the 'battery' that charges the metalmind to begin with.

It's like you guys get an idea in your head and forget WoB from interviews. There have only ever been three Shards on Roshar. Honor and Cultivation, followed some time later by Odium. http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=836 Question 49.

So Identity includes what magic systems you have access to. Huh. That certainly puts a new spin on aluminum metalminds.

Some of those questions still in your list, Phantom, have been answered, or should have particular wordings because answers have been confusing. http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kw=splintering https://twitter.com/PeterAhlstrom/status/304784619155374080 Apparently yes, http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/383-the-ultimate-list-of-questions-for-brandon/page-20?p=40426#entry40426 So we have a few questions down.

Lately I've been thinking Hoid used the element to get his Feruchemy, and that he uses Nicrosil to shuffle investiture between magic systems. (Out of Stormlight? On a planet with no highstorms? No problem, tap Nicrosil.)

See, this disagreement comes from us appreciating different aspects of Brandon's worldbuilding. I love the magical aspects, things like that are wonderful. But I also love cultural things like Aon constellations. They make so much sense and are wonderfully clever, not mundane at all in my opinion. Just another aspect of Brandon's creativity. I think if everything had a magical explanation, that in and of itself would make it all feel mundane.

Well, on Viper's thread New Hampshire Signing, BS acknowledges that aons inside the seons are Splinters (I suppose something similar happens with Skaze). In Nepene's post I quoted before, BS says "One reason being that the spren are far more extensive on Roshar, and provide something of a "release valve." The Seons and the Skaze on Sel are not numerous enough to fulfill a similar function." I read this as "sprens and Seons / Skaze are akin". So I hypothesize (is that even a word? :S ) that sprens are Splinters. As quoted just above, some sprens were on Roshar before Honor being splintered, some changed because of that and some new existed after it. I read this as: some spren are not from Honor (thus, they were not changed by Honor's splintering), Honor's spren were changed and more sprens were created after the splintering (because, we know a Shard can Splinter itself but, obviously, when it's splintered by Odium, more Splinters are created then). That's why I think spren are splinters, and I didn't say Honor's splinters, because I'm on the thought that sprens are from different Shards. On a side note, the relation sprens - seons / skaze (all start with s, as splinter does...) made me think that seons are conscious and smart but, when their masters are taken by the Shaod, they go wild, as if they lose their connection to the Cognitive Realm. This seems true also for sprens, they are conscious when they link with people and lose the Cognitive as they lose the link. Hope everything works, I had to edit the first post six times until I got it to quote the tex I wanted to and close the quote so I could write after it, and I hope the link is OK, Was it this hard before the update or is it just that I'm old and grumpy? Also, isn't there a preview post? Man, I need a course on modern forum posting...

I'm not talking about usefulness here, I'm talking about pure interest. Here, let me show you what I mean by listing some Mistings that are considered boring, and why they're, in fact, not as boring as Smokers. Seekers: Can spend months, even years perfecting their abilities, which include: Identifying each Allomantic pulse and knowing which metal is being burnt; assessing how much metal reserves other Allomancers have; and it the case of emotional Allomancy, figure out which emotions you're being manipulated with. Augurs: Not much in the way of training here, but at least they see something. Oracles: Same as Augurs. Smokers: They just burn their metal and that's it. They don't see or sense anything unusual, and there's really no training involved. Just complete and utter boredom. Anyone want to play devil's advocate and tell me why I'm wrong? (and please only use canon and WOB. you can theorize all you want that Smokers can train to exclude people from being smoked/increase or reduce the size of their coppercloud/protect other people from emotional Allomancy, etc. but none of these things is confirmed. so please use things we know for sure.)

I've never seen that interview before, but that does clarify things somewhat. Please note that not all of us follow every interview that carefully, though. I'm a fan and I like discussing Brandon's books, but I've got other things to do as well. I appreciate being told when I am wrong and glad to see that we can end discussion on this subject.

Isn't this like reading a story set on Earth and speculating on the importance of the constellation of Orion to the story?

Admin Edit: The following is speculation, and should not be considered canonical. - Shiv Malatium Composition: Atium & Gold Allomancy: Medium mistings can burn malatium to see the possible pasts of other people. Feruchemy: Malatium stores reflexes. Quicksilver ferrings storing it become extremely slow to react. Tapping it heightens reflexes significantly. Electratium Composition: Atium & Electrum Allomancy: Prophet mistings can burn electratium to see a possible far future of themselves or of a target they're touching. Feruchemy: Electratium stores skills. Repeater ferrings can watch others performing non-magical actions and store them. Tapping it would make them remember those skills, and be able to perform them. They would need to store them again after use or they will be forgotten. Bonatium Composition: Atium & Steel Allomancy: Repulser mistings can burn bonatium to automatically repel every metallic object in their vicinity, at 360 degrees. The lighter the metal, the more it's repelled. The heavier it is, the less. Metals heavier than the allomancer are unaffected. Feruchemy: Bonatium stores gravity. Mass ferrings storing it are much more affected by gravity, making it hard for them to move. Tapping it makes gravity affect them less, which causes them to walk as if on the moon. Featium Composition: Atium & Iron Allomancy: Magnet mistings can burn featium to automatically attract every metallic object in their vicinity, at 360 degrees. The lighter the metal, the more it's attracted. The heavier it is, the less. Metals heavier than the allomancer are unaffected. Feruchemy: Featium stores density. Juggernaut ferrings storing it become very fragile. Tapping it makes the body much more resistant to damage, to the point of invulnerability. Spealtium Composition: Atium & Pewter Allomancy: Reaper mistings can burn spealtium to make targets sick by touching them. Continuously touching targets would eventually kill them. Feruchemy: Spealtium stores tranquility. Tranquilizer ferrings storing it become angry. Tapping it makes them relaxed. Snatium Composition: Atium & Tin Allomancy: Healer mistings can burn snatium to heal targets by touching them. Feruchemy: Snatium stores light. Nightshade ferrings storing it would see everything darker. Tapping it would make them see better in the dark, to the point of seeing in complete darkness. Znatium Composition: Atium & Zinc Allomancy: Exciter mistings can burn znatium to enflame (riot) their own emotions. Feruchemy: Znatium stores persuasion. Persuader ferrings storing it wouldn't sound credible. Tapping it would make them more persuasive. Bratium Composition: Atium & Brass Allomancy: Sedater mistings can burn bratium to dampen (soothe) their own emotions. Feruchemy: Bratium stores interest. Keener ferrings storing it would find everything boring. Tapping it would make them find everything interesting. Latium Composition: Atium & Bronze Allomancy: Finder mistings can burn latium to detect feruchemical use. It is possible to dectect the metal being used, what is stored, what is tapped, and how much. Feruchemy: Latium stores x-rays. Watchman ferrings storing it become blind. Tapping it enables them to see through everything except for dense metals such as lead. Cuatium Composition: Atium & Copper Allomancy: Concealer mistings can burn cuatium to form a bubble that protects feruchemists from being detected by finders. A side effect of the burn is protection to the allomancer from seers, mediums and prophets. Feruchemy: Cuatium stores camouflage. Lurker ferrings storing it would become massively noticable. Tapping it would make them blend with the environment, to the point of invisibility. Duratium Composition: Atium & Duralumin Allomancy: Mistborns can burn duratium to shield themselves from nicrobursts and leechers. Duratium mistings are called Duratium Gnats because burning their metal is useless. Feruchemy: Duratium stores linguistics. Linguist ferrings storing it wouldn't understand anything being told and wouldn't be able to read, speak or write. Tapping it would allow them to understand, speak and write any language, both spoken and written. Alatium Composition: Atium & Aluminum Allomancy: Mistborns can burn alatium to fill all of their other allomantic reserves, even if they're empty. The more alatium being burnt, the more the reserves fill. Alatium mistings are called Alatium Gnats because burning their metal is useless. Feruchemy: Alatium stores wisdom. Prodigy ferrings storing it would become dumb. Tapping it would make them smarter. Cratium Composition: Atium & Chromium Allomancy: Charger mistings can burn cratium to fill allomantic reseves of a target they're touching. The more natium being burnt, the more the reserves fill. Feruchemy: cratium stores reading. Reader ferrings storing it would only be able to read very slowly. Tapping it would enable them to speed-read. Natium Composition: Atium & Nicrosil Allomancy: Screener mistings can burn natium to form a bubble that shields people within it from emotional allomancy. Feruchemy: Natium stores voice. Holler ferrings storing it would have their voice quieter. Tapping it would make their voice much louder. Cadatium Composition: Atium & Cadmium Allomancy: Jumper mistings can burn cadatium to teleport a short distance. If all the reserve is burned out instantly (such as by being touched by a nicroburst), it is possible to teleport anywhere in the world. Feruchemy: Cadatium stores molecular integrity. Ghost ferrings storing it are put into stasis. Tapping it enables them to move through solid objects. Benatium Composition: Atium & Bendalloy Allomancy: Synchronizer mistings can burn benatium to slightly slow down time for everything and everyone other than themselves and other synchronizers. If all the reserve is burned out instantly (such as by being touched by a nicroburst), time stops completely for a few seconds. Feruchemy: Benatium stores euphoria. Slosher ferrings storing it feel withdrawal symptoms such as from drugs. Tapping it makes them feel euphoric, as if on drugs. Bonus: Leratium Composition: Atium & Lerasium Effect: Ingesting leratium makes one a full feruchemist.

Hmm seems like I looked to the left instead the right. See the left of my posts says -1 in a red box, and I mistakenly thought all my posts were downvoted when in reality it kept showing that -1 because I had -1 points total. Then I realized the ratings for each post are on the right. Anyway, the downvote that started all of this wasn't in place I think. In my opinion, the whole rating system in these forums is pretty broken and prone to abuse but that's just me.

There is a clear Darth Vader presence in the book. You just have to look between the lines... literally.

6 elements actually, it's a Star of David with revelation at the top paired with spiritual growth at the bottom Edit: When you use a certain Gem for Soulcasting, one element is easier to create than all the others. For example, Emerald Soulcasters create food which is the physical substance associated with Growth. We know Jasnah used Smokestone, Ruby and Diamond and we usually see her Soulcasting things into Smoke, Fire or Crystal. Shallan created Blood, which is the element type for her Order. The six primary elements are Earth, Air, Fire, Water, Growth and Direction. The secondary elements are formed by combining these. For example, Smoke is a combination of Fire, Water and Air.

If her weight was irrelevant: Why would Kelsier bring it up? If I were exerting exactly equal forces on both boxes, and didn't need to stay in physical contact with the boxes, I would stay absolutely stationary.

lol, who's Phantine? Just saw the reddit question.

The Tanavallah is a graphical representation that Honor and Cultivation combined to form a single Shard with two Intellects. The theories here are only based on the symbols in this image, and there are a LOT of different interpretations. I don't have any substantial evidence, but here's what I see. The Table of Harmonics shows two Winged Greatshells that interact with each other to create a much larger Greatshell head in the negative space between them. This represents the Spiritual union of the two shards. The two heads of the smaller Greatshells come together and where they meet is the glyph Ishi. This also creates a "third eye" on the larger spirit face. All of these are symbols of vision and intellect. If you see the greatshells as representations of the map of Roshar then Ishi corresponds to the Purelake. This would be the logical place for both Shardpools to form since they represent the condensed cognitive aspect. We know Urithiru was built West of Alethela and at the place nearest to Honor (Chapter 35 heading), and that it was inaccessible by foot (Chapter 34 Heading). This would all be satisfied if the city were built in the middle of the Purelake on top of the Holy Grotto where the Shardpool was located.