Andrew the Great Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 I personally have taken the position that magic users in each of the cosmere worlds we've seen are and/or hold Splinters, and I know a lot of you agree with that. Those of you that don't, bear with me for a moment and assume that I'm right. You can go back to disagreeing with me in a minute. So, assuming that this is the case, that means that Kaladin is a Splinter. Towards the end, when Kaladin and Bridge Four are rescuing Dalinar and his men, Kaladin speaks the Ideal of the Windrunners, and suddenly becomes much more powerful, and there was much rejoicing, yey. So what I'm wondering is, what exactly happened, in terms of Shards, here? This is the first instance we've had of a magic user's power level significantly altering that isn't readily explained. In fact, I think it might be the first instance we've had of a magic user's power level altering at all. Did Kaladin become better connected to his Splinter, or fully bound to it where before he had only been tenuously connected? Did speaking the Ideals somehow cause him to gain another Splinter, to augment the first? Is he receiving a direct pipeline of sorts to the Shard? I personally find the first of those three most likely, but I base that exclusively off of my opinion that it seems like of the three, that's the one the Ideal seems most likely to acheive (it is an oath - it's binding Kaladin, so why not his splinter?). I'm sure there are other explanations that I haven't thought of either, but this is what I've got as this idea is stewing in my mind. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycoltbug Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 hmmm... You bring up a very good point on that he maybe more attuned to his shard at that point assuming that they are splinters. There is another magic system (i'm not saying what book in order to avoid spoilers for future books) where one must essentially damage their connection to the magic system effectively killing themselves in order to make their magic stronger. Maybe that is the key to mastering his wind running abilities is to push himself harder until he couldn't give anymore and once he did that the shard recognized the need and gave him more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerongal Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 the way i assumed it was, was a sort of correct "attunement" (is that a word?) thing. By accepting (and not just saying, but believing and accepting) and speaking the words gave him some kind of "correct match" to the driving force behind the power he has, regardless if its driven by splinters, or rationed out on a case-by-case basis by the shard itself, or granted through some sort of mystical clown deity. tl;dr - I think it just strengthened his connection to whatever it was giving him power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordofsoup Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 hes the first person ever to live through the storm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 I like Eerongal's theory. I don't think that magic users are all Splinters. I think that some (aka Returned) are, but they are the exception rather than the rule. I do think that every magic user has a connection to their shard, but that Splinters are more connected. They have been (or are) pieces of the Shard itself. I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I'm of the opinion that Syl is a Splinter who is sharing power with Kaladin, by saying the Ideal Kaladin reaffirmed and strengthened the bond between them allowing her to give him more power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kykeon Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I strongly believe that the magic of Roshar was actively sealed away when the KR resigned, allowing just a trickle of The Almighty's power through. A little bit how Aon Dor worked only in a limited fashion until Elantris was restored, you see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 I strongly believe that the magic of Roshar was actively sealed away when the KR resigned, allowing just a trickle of The Almighty's power through. A little bit how Aon Dor worked only in a limited fashion until Elantris was restored, you see? There does seem to be many similarities. Except for one thing: What about Szeth? He didn't experience any fluxuations in power since Kaladin became a Windrunner. I think that it is more of an individual journey than an overall problem. This makes me wonder though. Why the sudden change? Why is Dalinar suddenly receiving visions, Honorspren appearing to Kaladin (and Szeth?) and Shallan being able to Soulcast without a soulcaster? Is it some unconscious trigger left by the remain of Honor? or of the Almighty? Or did someone use the Old Magic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycoltbug Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 I've been trying to figure out the same thing. What was the cause of the effect or has there always been this many people experiencing changes like this on Roshar? I lean more towards there was some significant cause to have the events. I'm assuming it's something to do with one of the Shards for this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 I'm assuming that Honor AKA the Almighty left some kind of trigger before he was killed so that this stuff would start happening when Odium was gearing up to attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KChan Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Don't forget, at the very beginning of the book we're introduced to a cycle of Desolations, and the Heralds mention that they might not be able to end it. Then, at the very end, Talenel comes back and announces that, indeed, the Desolation has come. It very well could be that these resurgences of powers are all just part of the cycle: the Shards (or their Splinters, to be fair) reacting to the threat and endowing mankind with the power to fight it, much like what Preservation did in order to combat Ruin before the events of Mistborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeldaDad Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 (edited) Don't forget, at the very beginning of the book we're introduced to a cycle of Desolations, and the Heralds mention that they might not be able to end it. Then, at the very end, Talenel comes back and announces that, indeed, the Desolation has come. It very well could be that these resurgences of powers are all just part of the cycle: the Shards (or their Splinters, to be fair) reacting to the threat and endowing mankind with the power to fight it, much like what Preservation did in order to combat Ruin before the events of Mistborn. I think this is a very good explanation, given the relatively little info we have in terms of the series as a whole. It would make sense that the cycle is preparing mankind for another Desolation, or something even worse. Edit: I like the "something even worse" option. Edited March 20, 2011 by Endra kin'Fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KChan Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 We've seen references to "The True Desolation." That's a pretty good term for the "something even worse" option, if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeldaDad Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 We've seen references to "The True Desolation." That's a pretty good term for the "something even worse" option, if you ask me. YES! That's exactly what I was thinking! You rock! I knew someone would find it for me if I didn't get to it first. So True Desolation, eh? Yeah, that souds terrible. I wonder if it will affect the rest of the Cosmere noticeably... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KChan Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 It might, or it might be Roshar's version of a world crisis. It's sort of hard to tell at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 from Dalinar's last vision it seems to be the threat of total destruction. Which makes me wonder why Odium apparently wants to destroy Roshar so badly when he didn't destroy Sel even after killing both the known Shardholders there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe ST Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 from Dalinar's last vision it seems to be the threat of total destruction. Which makes me wonder why Odium apparently wants to destroy Roshar so badly when he didn't destroy Sel even after killing both the known Shardholders there. possibly, back to the Shard-paring thing, he cant destroy Honor, but can desolate the planet the made together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 I don't think that Odium wants to end the world. I think instead he wants to make life as miserable as possible for everyone. He doesn't want anyone to trust one another, to like one another. He wants man to constantly be in a state of fear and destruction. He gets satisfaction from Hate. It's who he is. If everyone is dead, than there is no one left to hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KChan Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 That didn't stop Ruin from trying to, well, ruin everything. Plus, the Almighty legitmately fears that Odium (or, to be fair, whoever else "the enemy" might refer to) will destroy everything. If even one of the Shardholders well and truly fears it, to the point that he's going to all this effort to stop it from happening, that has to account for something. Also, hatred can be blind. Perhaps Odium is simply acting on his nature, and can't stop and think what consequences killing everyone and destroying everything would have for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 That didn't stop Ruin from trying to, well, ruin everything. Plus, the Almighty legitmately fears that Odium (or, to be fair, whoever else "the enemy" might refer to) will destroy everything. If even one of the Shardholders well and truly fears it, to the point that he's going to all this effort to stop it from happening, that has to account for something. Also, hatred can be blind. Perhaps Odium is simply acting on his nature, and can't stop and think what consequences killing everyone and destroying everything would have for him. It seems like the Shardholders get molded to their power; thus Ruin would want to destroy. It would quite literally be all he could think about or enjoy. It would be his only imperative. On the other hand, Odium is not destruction. It is Hatred. Odium could create something, or preserve something, as long as it was an expression of hatred. He could hate the entire universe; that seems to me to be logical end of the Shard he holds. True expressions of hatred, however, do not have to end in destruction. Just torture. Lots and lots of torture. In fact, the vilest extremes of hatred don't involve killing; just pain. For the truly vile (and there is no reason to think that Odium falls in any other category) that may be preferable. Imagine a universe in which all sentient life is in a physical hell and cannot die. This seems to me to be the ultimate end from Odium. Ruin would be far preferable. And the entire universe would be involved to avoid a fate quite literally worse than death. This would be true even if death were oblivion, but the Cosmere apparently has an objective afterlife, which only makes things worse (at least, assuming it isn't already "torture for everybody"). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) It seems like the Shardholders get molded to their power; thus Ruin would want to destroy. It would quite literally be all he could think about or enjoy. It would be his only imperative. On the other hand, Odium is not destruction. It is Hatred. Odium could create something, or preserve something, as long as it was an expression of hatred. He could hate the entire universe; that seems to me to be logical end of the Shard he holds. True expressions of hatred, however, do not have to end in destruction. Just torture. Lots and lots of torture. In fact, the vilest extremes of hatred don't involve killing; just pain. For the truly vile (and there is no reason to think that Odium falls in any other category) that may be preferable. Imagine a universe in which all sentient life is in a physical hell and cannot die. This seems to me to be the ultimate end from Odium. Ruin would be far preferable. And the entire universe would be involved to avoid a fate quite literally worse than death. This would be true even if death were oblivion, but the Cosmere apparently has an objective afterlife, which only makes things worse (at least, assuming it isn't already "torture for everybody"). Which may be why Hoid (or whoever wrote the letter) called Odium the most terrible of all the Shards, Ruin will merely kill you, Odium will make sure you suffer horribly. And then kill you and make you suffer horribly after you're dead, if what he was apparently doing to the Heralds is any indication. Edited March 25, 2011 by CrazyRioter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) It seems like the Shardholders get molded to their power; thus Ruin would want to destroy. It would quite literally be all he could think about or enjoy. It would be his only imperative. On the other hand, Odium is not destruction. It is Hatred. Odium could create something, or preserve something, as long as it was an expression of hatred. He could hate the entire universe; that seems to me to be logical end of the Shard he holds. True expressions of hatred, however, do not have to end in destruction. Just torture. Lots and lots of torture. In fact, the vilest extremes of hatred don't involve killing; just pain. For the truly vile (and there is no reason to think that Odium falls in any other category) that may be preferable. Imagine a universe in which all sentient life is in a physical hell and cannot die. This seems to me to be the ultimate end from Odium. Ruin would be far preferable. And the entire universe would be involved to avoid a fate quite literally worse than death. This would be true even if death were oblivion, but the Cosmere apparently has an objective afterlife, which only makes things worse (at least, assuming it isn't already "torture for everybody"). This is brilliant. For one thing, killing and Splintering is probably not the most fun way to die. Say what you will for Vin killing Ruin, Vin didn't break apart Ruin's power. Brandon said that a Shardholder's mind feeds off of the Shard's power (that's how they stay alive). It's entirely possible that the Splintering was what killed Aona and Skai. And I don't know if you realized this when you wrote this, but... avoid a fate quite literally worse than death. The Prelude and the Herald's eternal punishment, anyone? We're getting way off topic, but I don't care, because holy crap, that eternal punishment sounds exactly like Odium. Perhaps the Oathpact requires them, in some way, to mimic Odium's Intent in order to bind him? After a given Desolation--where I'd guess Odium is more active--they have to bind his power back by that torture. Eternal punishment, eternal highstorms (the Everstorm)... Yeah, that's Odium all right. EDIT: Which may be why Hoid (or whoever wrote the letter) called Odium the most terrible of all the Shards, Ruin will merely kill you, Odium will make sure you suffer horribly. And then kill you and make you suffer horribly after you're dead, if what he was apparently doing to the Heralds is any indication. Took the words right out of my mouth. Edited March 25, 2011 by Chaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Maybe that's the Oathpact. Odium agreed that in exchange for being able to subject the Heralds to everlasting pain, the Heralds get to come back and attempt to prevent the same thing from happening to mankind. They eventually got sick of it (see Prelude), and they gave up. They hoped that keeping one of them bound would be enough to keep the Oathpact, and they figured that the Radiants would do a good enough job protecting them. EDIT- Except, there has to be a time limit in there. Because it seems like there's another reason why they follow the Oathpact, a reason why Odium isn't constantly attacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe ST Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 That's pretty epic linking Odium to the Radiants EPIC <3 Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 It seems like the Shardholders get molded to their power; thus Ruin would want to destroy. It would quite literally be all he could think about or enjoy. It would be his only imperative. On the other hand, Odium is not destruction. It is Hatred. Odium could create something, or preserve something, as long as it was an expression of hatred. He could hate the entire universe; that seems to me to be logical end of the Shard he holds. True expressions of hatred, however, do not have to end in destruction. Just torture. Lots and lots of torture. In fact, the vilest extremes of hatred don't involve killing; just pain. For the truly vile (and there is no reason to think that Odium falls in any other category) that may be preferable. Imagine a universe in which all sentient life is in a physical hell and cannot die. This seems to me to be the ultimate end from Odium. Ruin would be far preferable. And the entire universe would be involved to avoid a fate quite literally worse than death. This would be true even if death were oblivion, but the Cosmere apparently has an objective afterlife, which only makes things worse (at least, assuming it isn't already "torture for everybody"). This is a great theory. Odium hates everyone. So he's basically... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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